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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Sir Larry wrote:



Yes, good in .45-70, better in .458 WM. Will be interesting to see how that WFN with sharp edges cuts through the IWBB.
I also now have some 400-gr CEB brass FN "LEVER+SOLID" solids to compare at .458 WM velocities, thanks to Sir Jerry.
Doc M never did them justice with high enough velocity at MIB, in his wetpack. They all need to go at least 2400 fps for full effect.


I have the 325 grain Lever & Bolt Gun versions still on back order.



Is Boondock Sporting Goods still alive and well in Eagle River ?

Yep still open and doing business, one of my most favorite places. One of the few that large mediums to big bores still have a following.



If only Hornady would take the opportunity to offer a 400-gr GMX or CX ...

I would be in, for trying a GMX / CX 380-400 grain



Amazing but true, IIRC:
2247 fps in his 22" factory M70 barrel, 2250 fps in his 18" custom M98 barrel !


I assume 2300 would be feasible from a 24" barrel, individual barrel dependent.
I do not recall chronograph results from anyone. Tim does state he intentionally does not load this bullet to maximum with the powder that he is using.

Buffalo Bore Factory load for .458 WM with 400-gr TSX, COL = 3.310", BOL = 1.390".
My 24" Ruger No. 1 factory barrel at 87*F : 2320 fps at 5 yards, corrected for BC = 0.324 gives MV = 2333 for 5-shot mean.
My 25" Shilen barrel at 64*F: 2336 fps at 5 yards, corrected for BC =0.324 gives MV = 2350 fps for 5-shot mean.




404-gr Shock Hammer BC = .419
400-gr TSX BC = .324
Buffalo Bore is excellent factory ammo with the 400-gr TSX.
I shot sub-MOA for 3 shots at 100 yards when zeroing that Shilen barrel for last year's deer season.
Got a nice buck with it.
BUT, if you have the 404-gr Shock Hammer to handload, you have no need for the 400-gr TSX from Tim Sundle's corner of the market.

Definitely a good bullet and load. But, I am heavily vested in 404 Hammer. No regrets and don't foresee any with this Hammer. I personally think it is the best thing going in the 400 grain class for my purposes.

BP-B2

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If the petals on the 404 Hammer reliably shear at 1800 fps:
Figuring a conservative bc of .400. This would make it a a moose-masher out past 250 yards with a starting speed of 2350 fps.
2300 fps in a 22" standard magazine 458 Winchester should get me to my maximum visual distance of 230 yards.

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Good stuff Sir Ron, you've got a handle on the watering and Buffalo anatomy, here's hoping for rain so we can see the effects on the iron buffalo, i'm going to slam a 480gr DGX into some 5 gal water buckets, will see how it holds up at 2148 fps from the old Holland.


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The two 500 gr DGX bullets I used on my buffalo a couple years ago performed perfectly
The first through the heart and the second through the neck. Both were under the far side hide , perfectly mushroomed and weighed over 400 gas


Phil Shoemaker
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FAA Master pilot & CFII
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

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What range and MV, Phil? Please and thanks.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca


"What shall it profit a man if he gain the whole world and lose his own soul" - Jesus

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Originally Posted by 458Win
The two 500 gr DGX bullets I used on my buffalo a couple years ago performed perfectly
The first through the heart and the second through the neck. Both were under the far side hide , perfectly mushroomed and weighed over 400 gas


Good stuff, Thanks for that info Phil, late yesterday evening before dark i let loose with a 480gr DGX at 2148 fps from the old double, i had:

3lb metal Kirkwood coffee can
1 gallon bleach jug
1 gallon apple cider vinegar jug
2 five gallon hydraulic oil buckets with lids
1 five gallon paint bucket with lid

All containers were filled with water and stacked lengthways butt to butt, shot from 15 yards, bullet found in the last 5 gal paint bucket, that is a massive level of penetration for a soft point bullet, it expanded shaped like a rectangular hammer head, haven't weighed it yet, but it looks great.

Hornady got it right when they bonded these. cool


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Sir Jerry,
That's good stuff right there! I think your Ready! Talk about a confidence Booster!
No need to be climbing trees! Lol!!!


I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!

A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!

Know Thy Self!

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You bet Sir Tony, sending pics to beretzs right now, if he doesnt post em i'll send em to Sir Ron to see if he'll post if anyone wants to see them, the aftermath explosion of debris surprised the chit out of me, these 480 DGX softs will only be used on the one specific animal this trip after the solids are employed, the mighty 458 WM+ with 404 Hammers and 500gr TBSS [if needed] will be used if i can find a big Cape Buff. cool


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Thanks for the report.
I have read positive reports regarding the Bonded DGX bullets. Pictures of recovered bullets have shown that they hang together with a substantial frontal area.


I have a box of the 500 grain Bonded DGX that came with a 458 Winchester. This box advertises 2140 fps.
I don't know if Phil's were factory or hand-loads. But, they obviously preformed well on the big-black-beast with attitude.

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From Sir Jerry, yesterday's aftermath in OK,
not today, OK:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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The mensuration:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary
.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Another aftermath, my lot of AA-2015BR bites the dust:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Range rules changed, I got there an hour before closing and just decided to dig a ditch in the berm,
just shot them through the Caldwell G2 at a spot between two target stands.
First bullet crater in the dirt became the aiming point.
Gotterdun in about 45 minutes with 2-minute cooldowns in AC of truck between 3-shot rapid fire bursts.
H4198: 70, 71 and 72 grains
H322: 76, 77 and 78 grains
AA-2015BR: 76, 77 and 78 grains.

None of those loads showed any funny business for pressure signs.
Maybe I can take a shovel to the range and recover some Shock Hammer stubs ...
when the range master ain't lookin'.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Now I have a thought about using Norma brass, which has about 4.5-gr H2O capacity greater
than the W-W Super and Hornady brass.


With Norma brass, in 25" Shilen barrel,
404-gr Shock Hammer at 3.380" COL: 80.0-gr AA-2230 >>> 2488 fps MV
404-gr Shock Hammer at 3.480" COL: 80.0-gr AA-2230 >>> 2425 fps MV
So, 63 fps MV was lost by not increasing the powder charge with increasing COL to 3.480".

Next, again in Norma brass:
404-gr Shock Hammer at 3.480" COL: 84.0-gr AA-2230 >>> 2545 fps MV

So, 120 fps MV was gained by adding 4 grains of AA-2230 at constant COL of 3.480".
Using the faster powders might do more than AA-2230 ball,
with minimal compression of the extruded "Extreme" powders in the Norma brass.

?? grains of H4198 or ?? grains of H322 in Norma brass at 3.480" COL might crack 2600 fps.
AA-2015BR is too bulky, fine-grained extruded though it is.
74 grains of H4198 and 80 grains of H322 in Norma brass at 3.480" COL to start, and work upward,
with the 404-gr Shock Hammer.
They are slick bullets, need more steam to build some pressure. whistle

87 grains of H4895 got the 400-gr Woodleigh PPSN over 2600 fps with heavy compression,
not ideal if it can be done with a lesser amount of a faster powder.
And the 404-gr SH is too long in the boat tail for shallow seating.
3.480" COL or a little shorter, maybe 3.450" is ideal, for seating depths of 0.460" to 0.490" respectively.
This allows good neck tension and bullet alignment,
and the hammer PDR bands can be easily crimped in the trough in that range, with 2.500" brass.
Seat anywhere and use a Lee factory Crimp.

I do recall that I had a primer fall out of the Norma brass with 86 grains of AA-2230 and the 450-grain TSX,
using new, unfired brass.
If I keep practicing at it, I'll get those primer pockets work hardened on the Norma brass,
and the necks annealed.


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Many Thanks for posting the pics Sir Ron, notice the bottom of that metal coffee can out front? it has no hole, the force of the bullet going in the top blew the bottom out of it as well as split the can down the middle, the 5 gal buckets were spun nearly 180 degrees, i had the filler caps at 12 o'clock, the bullet strike lined up perfect with shooting into a the smaller coffee can lid from the prone position, whole lotta crazy voodoo going on with that level of pressure LOL, i have no doubts about using those 480gr DGX's on any animal one would employ a soft nosed bullet on, plenty tough.

I had asked Wife to grab a set of headphones and come watch, she was at the backyard gate, when i retrieved the bullet to lay on rifle for a pic she pulled her 9mm round out that she had in her pocket, "here, put my flower you made me in the picture too!" aint i a romantic devil? ; ]

FWIW and off topic, no one i know [even factory] loads the 125gr Barnes hp's in 9mm, 6gr of Power Pistol easily fits for any col one needs for proper function, bullet leaves her P365's at 1100 fps, really easy for her to shoot, i shot through three 3lb Kirkland coffee cans lengthways with that load last week, had three one gallon olive oil jugs huddled around back of the last can, that little buzzsaw ate through three cans and took a bite out of one of the olive oil jugs then fell back into the third can, mighty fine SD carry load imho.

Thanks again Sir Ron.


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Damn! i had high hopes for the 2015/404 Hammer combo, another thing about being experiential men, we will find something else [powder] that will work very well, Thanks for posting the results Sir Ron.


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quote=gunner500: Many Thanks for posting the pics Sir Ron, notice the bottom of that metal coffee can out front? it has no hole, the force of the bullet going in the top blew the bottom out of it as well as split the can down the middle, the 5 gal buckets were spun nearly 180 degrees, i had the filler caps at 12 o'clock, the bullet strike lined up perfect with shooting into a the smaller coffee can lid from the prone position, whole lotta crazy voodoo going on with that level of pressure LOL, i have no doubts about using those 480gr DGX's on any animal one would employ a soft nosed bullet on, plenty tough.

FINALLY HORNADY HAS MADE A GOOD DGR BULLET, bless their hearts.

I had asked Wife to grab a set of headphones and come watch, she was at the backyard gate, when i retrieved the bullet to lay on rifle for a pic she pulled her 9mm round out that she had in her pocket, "here, put my flower you made me in the picture too!" aint i a romantic devil? ; ]

Ah, that is so sweet !

FWIW and off topic, no one i know [even factory] loads the 125gr Barnes hp's in 9mm, 6gr of Power Pistol easily fits for any col one needs for proper function, bullet leaves her P365's at 1100 fps, really easy for her to shoot, i shot through three 3lb Kirkland coffee cans lengthways with that load last week, had three one gallon olive oil jugs huddled around back of the last can, that little buzzsaw ate through three cans and took a bite out of one of the olive oil jugs then fell back into the third can, mighty fine SD carry load imho. end quote

Recipe noted. I will load some for Wife's Glock 19, and mine !
Here is her concealed carry permit target. She shot better than all the men, boys and girls there that day,
at Bud's Gun Shop & Range.
Only one bullet of 20 outside the 5X ring.
She got bored and yawned on that one.


[Linked Image]

And, hey, my Wife was a track star in high school too.
I sure liked watching the girls run. grin
Our first date, she was 16 y.o. and I was an 18 y.o. "college boy" (aimless West Point dropout by the spring of 1973)
and I followed the girls' track bus to an "away" meet in my 1966 Mustang.
I gave her a ride home from the meet, about a 100-mile ride.
8-track tape player Moody Blues, Bread, and America (Horse With No Name) ... did the trick.
Told my coach about that at the 50th reunion of our boys' state cross-country championship team of 1971,
only 3 of 5 scorers still alive.
Coach nearly had a heart attack himself, made me feel like I had done something wrong.
If I hadn't dropped out of West Point after they announced they were getting out of Vietnam,
I would not have met my Wife.
Now we live in even more interesting times, as the Chinese curse goes ...


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Here is a 450-gr FN solid copper bullet that can be loaded SAAMI @ +2300 fps, 3.340" COL
or wildcatted to .458 WM+ ammo @ +2400 fps, 3.350" COL.
Almost any factory .458 WM can thus be a .458 WM+:

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

Just as the 500-gr TBSS and 450-gr TSX shoot close to same POI,
the 450-gr OFN and the 404-gr SH might too.
I hear that at 2300 fps the 450-gr FN will pass through elephant with ease,
almost as good as a 500-gr TBSS at 2300 fps, but with less recoil.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Those NF are beauties, my fave for big and bad game.


The 450 grain .458 loaded to 2150 fps proved to a one -shot-wonder on ele and several Cape Buff a few years ago on a Problem Animal Control outing in Southern Africa.
Frontal brain shot on ele shot through head and on into body - DRT. Same load shot through most buff.
Not a Magnum, just the old 1886 45-90.
[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]


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Sir Charles,

Cool beans for sure !
What nose shape was on your 450-gr/.458 North Fork solids
that sailed through elephant and buffalo with 2150 fps MV from your .45-90 ?

My old Ogived-FN might require 2300 to 2400 fps MV in .458 WinMag.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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