Home Forums Birds & Dogs Hunting Dogs Recommendation on a new gun dog

I plan to acquire a new dog for strictly upland bird hunting. Recently relocated from Alaska to Idaho and have never hunted birds in the West. Will also hunt in the Midwest for grouse and woodcock.

My last bird dog was a golden retriever- Bruno he lived 15 years. He was without a doubt the best dog I ever had. Ptarmigan, spruce, ruffed, and sharp tailed grouse hunting machine. We hunted together all over Alaska. I could put him in a bush plane and take him anywhere, he was always happy and mellow, great with people and especially children. When it came time to hunt he was all business. I don’t attribute his greatness to my ability as a trainer, that’s the wife.

Anyways, I’m considering different breed this time. I’ve some experience with spaniels my father had an American water spaniel, mom had a Brittany and my brother a Cocker. I’ve thought about possibly an English Springer or an English Setter as the wife has had two Irish Setters. Just want to try something different, I expect this will be my last gun dog. Plan on getting a started or fully trained pup. I know everybody has their own opinion on what breed is best but, I’m open to suggestions if you care to offer. Thanks.

First decision is do you want a flusher or a pointer. Springers flush...Setters point. One has to be willing to keep up with a flusher once they move out on scent, and in some cases let them rip it, which a hot Springer will do. You will not be casually walking up to a point as often may happen with a Setter. Most likely a Springer will be more reliable for retrieving, especially for the difficult ones.

You most likely already know the above....You are going to get suggestions of everyones current favorite...Which really will not help all that much in narrowing down a final choice..

I like Springers and Cockers...Friend has an English Setter which is turning into a Darth Vader Birddog. Another friend has a Lab that pretty much does it all.

If you're in the southern 1/2 of the state, or will be hunting that part of the state, I'd suggest a pointing breed and good hiking boots, then hit the chukar hills!!

For the bird hunting I've done in ID (pheasant, chukars, sage grouse) the pointing breeds have worked very well. I like the 'ugly' breeds. The ones with a beard. I currently have a pudelpointer and wouldn't hesitate to go that route again. Probably the only other breed I'll look at, were I to switch, would be a drathaar. Both breeds have well known breeders in Idaho. The variety of upland bird hunting in Idaho is amazing. I have a pard that lives there and he usually shoots every species of upland bird the state has over his drathaar every year.

I know everyone has their own preferences, really just wanted to consider some other possibilities based on fellow sportsman’s experience. Right now, I’m leaning towards a Llewellin. Does anyone have any experience with this breed?

I would carefully consider how the dog will be to live with and your personal situation. Big difference between some breeds.

I'd investigate Idaho drahthaar kennels.

If you liked a Golden get a Golden. It would not be my own choice but I'm an elderly single male and any dog of mine would no more than see children from a distance.

What do you want your next dog to do better or different?

After that I'd buy the breeder or the line if given any access to the sire and dam. I think there can be as much difference within a given breed as across breeds.

I find myself objecting to the wording of "fully" trained pup. My own experience has been that a really smart started pup that continues professional training working with the owner and family under supervision while being a part of the family at home is more fun - that is no animal is ever fully trained and turned over and stays quite fully trained - either gets better or goes down hill.

Clark Myers, my last bird dog just happened to be a Golden Retriever. I have no particular loyalty to the breed, even though he was an exceptional dog and came from excellent hunting bloodlines his sister who I also hunted over wasn’t. I’m well aware that even litter mates can have different personalities and innate skills. I figure you only go around once and this time I want to experience a different breed of gun dog.

I wouldn’t even consider a dog that isn’t comfortable in various environments and social situations to include children. I’m also getting long in the tooth and am leaning more towards a closer working, slower, methodical walking gun dog. A gentleman’s bird dog if you will. I have pretty much eliminated “flushers” from consideration despite an affinity for spaniels.

Didn’t intend to offend anyone with my poor choice of words. I attribute that to my lack of vocabulary an inability to articulate accurately. By “Fully” I’m referring to a gun dog that has been trained to point and retrieve. I know that is not a finished dog and that training and reinforcement continues.

I’m still in the research phase of this endeavor, which I find interesting and informative in itself. Thanks for those that have mentioned Drahthaars(sp) definitely worthy of further study.

You might consider a Wirehair Pointing Griffon.

The girl in my avatar was a Llewellin. The plan is to get another. What info are you looking for?

German Shorthairs for me, but its always a Ford vs Chevy thing. I like the short coat that doesn't collect burrs. Wife bought a golden doodle (yeah, eye roll) for her housedog pet. That thing is the calmest I've ever been around and smart as a whip. But that long haired coat is a burr collecting machine when running out in the weeds.

Recommendations:
1. Get one
2. Get the one you like to look at and live with.
3.Get it from a gundog breeder that prioritizes health and temperament.
4. Consider the type of hunting you will do most and choose accordingly.
5. Labs and Springers rule, but then I like to hunt ducks.
6. A Brittany or a Shorthair is seldom a mistake.
7. #'s 1 thru 3 above trump all else.

I haven’t been around Llewellins, I think they are beautiful dogs and sure like what I read about them. That breed is definitely on my watch list. My plan is that once I develop a short list to contact and visit breeders and possibly see potential sires and dams. I’m willing and capable to travel anywhere for the right dog.

The choice of dog is an interesting challenge. One friend had a few Llewellins and he loved them.

I have had German Wirehaired Pointers for over 30 years. They suit my needs perfectly. We hunt doves, three species of quail and occasionally stock tank jump ducks here in S. Az. Lucky for them we have an acre of land for them to roam which I believe they need. Once in the house they are mellow but hell on wheels outside. Everyone of my five have been that way.

As to burrs yea they can get a few sticky plants on our mearns quail hunts. As the season progresses their fur get stripped and are easier to clean. Here is first outing last year, a particularly bad year for the Pega Ropa aka Mentzelia Desertorum.


there are two dogs in this pic. Looks like they are wearing ghillie suits.

i had a pointing Labrador one heck of a great dog in the house and hunting. i would look for a breeder that sells pointing Labradors. good luck,Pete53

There’s got to be a breed that you have been craving to have over the years. Find a good breeder of whatever breed that is and get yourself a pup. Scratch that itch! Let us know what you decide. All that said...... I go Spaniel if I were you!

Drahthaar and don’t look back….

Shorthair

My sentiments exactly…..

I have a 2-1/2 year old Llewellin and a chessie that I hunt with. The chessie was a family dog that happened to turn into a decent flusher. That was the gateway into upland hunting for me. The Llew came a couple years later and she is great. Super sweet dog and a bird finder. I will say that pointing dogs take alot more work from my limited experience, so make sure you have the time to work with it. Nothing like watching a pointing dog work!

Tim should like this one....For fun....A Boykin taking care of business....I think he could handle the uplands also...

Lots to choose from. Lots of great ideas. I grew up hunting upland in Washington over flushing labs. Very similar to Idaho. Lots of fun, but I have a pudelpointer now and I would not use a flushing breed again. The ability of a dog to range, locate/point, hold point until you get there to flush is priceless compared to chasing after birdy flushing dogs. My PP is great for both upland and waterfowl. I would have no problem using her exclusively as an upland dog. PP's come in different coats. Medium course wiry, fleece (like a goldendoodle -- terrible for hunting), smooth. For upland, I would consider a smooth coat. My PP's medium course hair collects stuff and she runs hot which we can manage fine, but I think a smooth coat would get the job done better. Another attribute I can't emphasis enough is her prey drive and motor is really strong and she's bright and trainable. The other attribute I like is when she walks in the house, she mellows out and turns everything off. She also doesn't shed. You have good breeders in the area -- Cedarwoods, Prairie Trout, etc. Prairie Trout has a stellar smooth coat dame named Star. I would reach out to them to pick their brains. They are a great resource to understand PP's. I also like GWP's. I hunt with a buddy's and it is a tank with a strong prey drive and unstoppable motor.

First off, a Llewellin is merely a particular line of English Setters. Richard Llewellin was good buddies with the founder of the Field Dog Stud Book (I forget his name) and Llewellin got him to register Llewellin's dogs as a separate breed. That foolishness went on for a few decades until the present where Llewellin's are now recognized as a line of English Setters that can trace their pedigree directly back to Llewellin's dogs.

That is an awful lot of dogs and one should not pay a premium for the Llewellin name. I've had two so called "Llewellins" and they were not any better nor any worse than the other ES dogs I've owned. My best two ESs were not Llewellins though the one probably had some in him based on looks. I wouldn't have bothered with the DNA test to prove its Llewellin heritage as it is meaningless.

As to which dog breed, that is a tough one. I prefer pointering breeds of one sort or another. My preference is for English Setters and the various wirehair breeds but I have owned maybe a dozen different pointing breeds as well as hunt over that many more.

Your best bet is to find a breeder that breeds for so called close ranging dogs. This will vary per breed per line and even dog but it is a start. A cooperative dog will adjust its range to the cover so "close working" can vary greatly depending on how far the dog can see and/or hear you.

I've owned flushers too, a pair of Springers as well as a half dozen Labs used as flushers. Plus an Aussie/Pitbull mix that is my current flusher. They really fit well with Minnesota's late season pheasant hunting habitat but flushers are just not my thing now that I am older. If you train so the dog will stop even when on a hot scent so you can catch up they aren't bad but few wish to put in the time to do so. My current flusher was the easiest to teach but it's breeding is toward obedience moreso than hunting.

I can't give you much advice on picking out a dog there other than look for the lighter built Labs for the uplands. They seem to have more endurance. And eat less leaving smaller messes. There are a number of heavy "duck dogs" in this region so finding an upland line can be a bit tougher. Also, look close to verify the spaniel is from field stock rather than bench. That applies to English Setters above also.

My vote is Brittany spaniel. I have hunted over them since 1974. Medium size, easy to train, and good house dogs. My last Brittany is in my avatar picture. Which seems to have disappeared.

Never owned a Brittany but I have hunted many miles behind one and have not so far hunted with any other dog that was any better . My personal choice would be a German Shorthair from a line that produces medium to close working dogs. Both are very versatile .

Can't quite agree with the ford vs Chevy thing. Im of the opinion that the dog needs to fit the personality & drive of the handler. I have had a German short hair & that dog fit my drive & personality at that stage of my life. He was a pure pleasure to watch work & like eluded to above, low maintenance in terms of dealing with coat.

Though at this stage in my life If was looking for a upland game dog Id seriously have to consider a Drahthaar (German wirehair) seen many others above referred to the Drahthaar / German-wirehair & one - may have called them an ugly dog. Now I have seen some ugly Drahthaar's, though they can clean up really nice with a bit of grooming. I understand they can be amazing to watch work as well. Personally I favor the white & liver coloration.

Your personality, your choice, put in some serious thought as to what will fit you & work with a few kennels to see if they may help you select a dog to fit your personality.

Wish you well!

Ugly dogs for sure 😁😁😁

All I can offer is to say that you should buy only from a Breeder that Trials their own dogs. There are far too many "AKC" dogs being bred by folks that don't understand what they are doing and simply see $ signs.

Darrel Wick

75 pounds of bad assery there. Good looking ugly dog.

Hunted a Boykin for 10 years. Gracie was a perfect pirogue dog. I was hunting marsh areas in southwest Louisiana at the time.

Off the beaten path for sure, but my current gun dog is a German Wachtelhund. He chases hair/fur and yelps (the Germans term is “gives tongue” of “spurlat”) and feathers he is whisper quite and fierce for retrieval. I’ve shot quail, pheasant and woodcock in front of his flush and he has retrieved literally well over a 1000 birds over ten years. For a while he was the only retriever in camp.

Mine was out of “Last Chance Wachtelhunds” in Montana. Their website has a few pics from when they shipped him to Louisiana.

No joke, Harry! Those were some exciting hints to watch. For whatever reason, I just prefer to watch Spaniels work. We’ve got a Boykin going with us to South Dakota this year. I’d love to see him work with Merlot.

Tim....I arrive on November 3rd, for 3 weeks...Hope some of our times are the same.

At 7 this is the first summer I've seen Merlot slow down a little. Been crazy hot here, so he has not been getting much running it. Then there is the Georgia Wild man..."The Hyg."....He is the definition of a pocket rocket. Someplace in his body is a big spring and it is wound tight.

Tim....Boykinpallozza.....

https://www.thehuntingtraveller.com...RlmPDHgGEqE2pB0jsb-rcNNf3SPZO9AzXaV7VP8w

Had a male Boykiin. Absolute toughest dog I've ever been around. Couldn't wear him down and only shot ducks over him. Only hunted him by himself as he was ill to other male dogs. He loved to work and was all in in the roughest, wooliest, swamps and rivers. Lived for retrieving. Not a house dog at all. Didn't want alot of petting, etc..............Would have made a fantastic bomb or drug K9. Good luck with your choice!

German wirehair pointer or German Shorthair Pointer or Musterlander

Dang, Harry! I didn’t know all this Boykin stuff was out there. Good to see Spaniels being used in the field.

Harry, I’m bummed. Looks like we are the group just before you arrive. We will be getting home about the time you head out there. I was hoping that there would be a bit of overlap. We will try to save you a few birds.

For myself in that situation I would probably be looking to find a nice, low-key Brittany Spaniel or LLewellin (English) Setter, already well on it's way to being steady, etc. At this stage in my life (67) I would not be comfortable with a hi-energy hunting machine, rather a nice calm dog that is easy to live with.