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Joined: Jan 2017
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2017
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I get where Venturino is coming from but I’ve always liked the .44 Special. A 240-250 grain Keith style bullet at around around 1000 fps is fun to shoot and a classic. That's probably MLV' S MISTAKE he probably never shot a keith load in one to know what makes them special...
" Cheapest velocity in the world comes from a long barrel and I sure do like them. MB "
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Joined: Aug 2011
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2011
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I have a Ruger stainless GP100 with a 3” barrel in 44 Special that is “Special”.
If we live long enough, we all have regrets. But the ones that nag at us the most are the ones in which we know we had a choice.
Doug
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
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How many years old is that article?
I recall reading it when it came out in Handgunner years back, but it has been a while.
Yes, it is click bait stuff, when you don't have anything new or exciting to write about, you have to drum up strawman type things like this to attack and refute.
Not much for original material I guess.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,890
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2010
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I am a fan of .44s and I kinda have to agree. Now before someone throws something at me, let me explain. The .44 Special cartridge loaded to SAAMI specs is what the .44 Russian was. The .44 Special was supposed to have been an improvement and therefore was a bit longer than the Russian. S&W sold this new & improved cartridge to go with it's new and improved pistol, the Triple Lock. While the Triple Lock was an improved model, S&W for some unknown reason just made the new cartridge a bit longer without increasing the power over what the original Russian black powder cartridge was. I guess they figured that since no one had chronographs back then no one would ever know the difference. After all, it was a little longer, so it must be more powerful, right? Since it was no danger of over pressure, there would not be any problems with their new bad-assed model pistol that shoots this "more powerful" version of the .44 cartridge. Well, at least that is my theory. Seems to make sense. "Normal" factory loaded .44 Special ammo, in my opinion, leaves a bit to be desired. That is my take on what Duke was saying, as I interpreted it. My "go-to" .44 "anti-personnel" load is the Skeeter Skelton .44 Special load of a 240 gr SWC loaded over 7.5 gr of Unique or 7.7 gr of Universal which gives me 950 FPS or so from my 4.25" barrel. As Skeeter said, "one hit and all hostilities will cease". I might add that this is with the benefit of not going through the bad guy and a brick wall behind him, hitting someone innocent behind it. All this and making a second quick controlled shot difficult for most people, if there should be a second target, as would a magnum. Frankly, the .44 Magnum is too much gun for "anti-personnel" use in most all cases. However, great for hunting. This is well above SAAMI specs for .44 Special that was set for guns made pre-1940s or so. With nearly all guns made post 1940s this "Skeeter" load is perfectly reasonable and quite a bit less than the next step up, the .44 Magnum. Brian Pearce has done extensive research on this and has concluded in much more detail the same. I REALLY wish SAAMI would come out with a new designation of a .44 Special +P to fill the gap. The "Skeeter" load fits this description perfectly.
"...why, land is the only thing in the world worth working for, worth fighting for, worth dying for,... because it is the only thing that lasts."
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,519
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2008
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Back when Wiley Clapp was a nobody, he penned an article titled 'Screw the 44 Special' or some such. Readers were PO'ed but it generated interest and got the author's name known. Now gun makers are naming models after him. Hell I'd pay extra to not have the Clapp.
Direct Impingement is the Fart Joke of military rifle operating systems. ⓒ
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Joined: Oct 2021
Posts: 50
Campfire Greenhorn
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Campfire Greenhorn
Joined: Oct 2021
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The DAO Bulldog .44 was my carry gun for years, one of those guns I kick myself for selling.
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,691
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,691 |
In the wrestling business, they call this a "work". It is done by a "Heel" to create "Heat". In translation, the bad guy says things like this to make the crowd angry.
"The number one problem with America is, a whole lot of people need shot, and nobody is shooting them." -Master Chief Hershel Davis
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,882
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Aug 2001
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I really enjoy my Colt SAA in 44 Sp. (1964), Pleasure to shoot, hit's what it's pointed at, and it looks good. What's not to like.
"The older I get, the better I was"
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Joined: Dec 2002
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Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Dec 2002
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I am a fan of .44s and I kinda have to agree. Now before someone throws something at me, let me explain. The .44 Special cartridge loaded to SAAMI specs is what the .44 Russian was. The .44 Special was supposed to have been an improvement and therefore was a bit longer than the Russian. S&W sold this new & improved cartridge to go with it's new and improved pistol, the Triple Lock. While the Triple Lock was an improved model, S&W for some unknown reason just made the new cartridge a bit longer without increasing the power over what the original Russian black powder cartridge was. I guess they figured that since no one had chronographs back then no one would ever know the difference. After all, it was a little longer, so it must be more powerful, right? Since it was no danger of over pressure, there would not be any problems with their new bad-assed model pistol that shoots this "more powerful" version of the .44 cartridge. Well, at least that is my theory. Seems to make sense. "Normal" factory loaded .44 Special ammo, in my opinion, leaves a bit to be desired. That is my take on what Duke was saying, as I interpreted it. My "go-to" .44 "anti-personnel" load is the Skeeter Skelton .44 Special load of a 240 gr SWC loaded over 7.5 gr of Unique or 7.7 gr of Universal which gives me 950 FPS or so from my 4.25" barrel. As Skeeter said, "one hit and all hostilities will cease". I might add that this is with the benefit of not going through the bad guy and a brick wall behind him, hitting someone innocent behind it. All this and making a second quick controlled shot difficult for most people, if there should be a second target, as would a magnum. Frankly, the .44 Magnum is too much gun for "anti-personnel" use in most all cases. However, great for hunting. This is well above SAAMI specs for .44 Special that was set for guns made pre-1940s or so. With nearly all guns made post 1940s this "Skeeter" load is perfectly reasonable and quite a bit less than the next step up, the .44 Magnum. Brian Pearce has done extensive research on this and has concluded in much more detail the same. I REALLY wish SAAMI would come out with a new designation of a .44 Special +P to fill the gap. The "Skeeter" load fits this description perfectly. I read somewhere that the .44 Special was introduced to handle the then fairly new smokeless powders that were more bulky than the black powder used in the .44 Russian. I don't remember where I read it, but I do remember reading that bit of trivia. EK lobbied for +P factory loads in the .44 Special, but manufacturers were worried about liability issues if those +P loads were fired in revolvers that were never designed to handle that level of chamber pressure. The longer .44 Magnum cases wouldn't chamber in a .44 Russian or .44 Special chamber, so no winnable liability cases could be made. Skeeter's articles prompted me to be a .44 Special shooter, as did his appreciation of 5" barrels in N-frame Smiths. In memory of SS, I had Ahlman's shorten the barrel of a 6.5" S&W 624 to 5" as a match for my 5" S&W 27. I wonder if there are enough new .44 Special revolvers being made/sold to incent ammunition manufacturers to add another cartridge option to their existing lines.
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Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 60,270 |
Seems like this was an old article from him....
I am MAGA.
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Posts: 1,390
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,390 |
Errr...am I the only one who doesn't get this? I've never found any difference in accuracy in any of the 44 mags or specials I've owned, as long as the throats were correct and the gun was in time.
If you're going to have one and don't reload, the 44 mag is the only choice but except for the 300gr loads I run in Rugers, I like my 44 mags downloaded to hot 44 special pressures anyway; a 250 WFN or LFN at 1100 fps.
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Joined: Jul 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 15,816 |
Seems like this was an old article from him.... This is an old article Jim. It was published a number of years back in American Handgunner.
THE CHAIR IS AGAINST THE WALL. The Tikka T3 in .308 Winchester is the Glock 19 of the rifle world. The website is up and running!www.lostriverammocompany.com
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,647
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,647 |
I've taken several deer in 4 different states with 44 specials using the Keith bullet & 7.5 grs of Unique, the only thing necessary is you put the bullet in the right place & then get ready for backstraps. Its a great cartridge & load.
Dick
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Joined: Jun 2007
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Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 21,951 |
Clickbait? The .38 Special is not special...you must have a .357. The .32-20 will never do, you need a .32 H&R. .45 Colt is the pits, you need a .460....on and on...Oh well, I guess it sells advertising. He's just saying it's the individual revolver that matters (various factors) much more than the chambering. Yeah, its exactly why everyone owns a K38 and not a K32..... Most dont want to admit it but it IS the cartridge and many times the bullet as well. The writer being one of them. Its been a long time since Mike did an article with thousands of 44 Mags fired at full power and he's never been one to advocate anything in 45 Colt hotter than a black powder level load.
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Joined: Mar 2006
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Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 8,305 |
I've taken several deer in 4 different states with 44 specials using the Keith bullet & 7.5 grs of Unique, the only thing necessary is you put the bullet in the right place & then get ready for backstraps. Its a great cartridge & load.
Dick Dick is absolutely correct! There's not much in the way of hunting, or otherwise in this country that this load won't handle. While I had on occasion loaded the odd Hornady XTP for my Ruger Lipsey's Bisley special, most often it's the Keith cast bullet over 7.5 gr of Unique, day in and day out!
~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
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Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 4,366 |
Some years back, not knowing that a 629 6.5” Classic could shoot Specials had a like new S&W at the pawn shop for $400.00. The lady that owned it shot one cylinder full of magnums and decided someone else (me) should own it. There is some kind of difference in the two cartridges. I made a video for the guys of shooting a gallon water filled milk jug with a Special and it was an “ok”. Then another jug with a magnum and it was a “Holly S*hit!!!” A S&W 29 with Specials was Dirty Harry’s preferred load and we all know how well those worked.
My other auto is a .45
The bitterness of poor quality is remembered long after the sweetness of low price has faded from memory
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Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,868
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 37,868 |
A buddy about 40 years back had a snub 5-shot stainless S&W .44 Special revolver. IIRC some kind of limited edition. One of the nicest revolvers I can recall, his primary carry piece.
It got stolen in a vehicle break-in, broad daylight, sad deal.
"...if the gentlemen of Virginia shall send us a dozen of their sons, we would take great care in their education, instruct them in all we know, and make men of them." Canasatego 1744
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,508
Campfire Sage
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Campfire Sage
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 131,508 |
A buddy about 40 years back had a snub 5-shot stainless S&W .44 Special revolver. IIRC some kind of limited edition. One of the nicest revolvers I can recall, his primary carry piece.
It got stolen in a vehicle break-in, broad daylight, sad deal. Was he forced to leave it in the car as he went into the Post Office or something?
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,243
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 46,243 |
op and author purposefully stirring chit, one has, or is about to give up ALL handguns, the other ran out of something useful to say, i'd say it'd be pretty easy to make fun of 'authors' favorite kinds of cheese and gravy, as he 'appears' to be an expert consumer of them all!
Trump Won!
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Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,246
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 10,246 |
op and author purposefully stirring chit, one has, or is about to give up ALL handguns, the other ran out of something useful to say, i'd say it'd be pretty easy to make fun of 'authors' favorite kinds of cheese and gravy, as he 'appears' to be an expert consumer of them all! +1 Stopped reading Venturino years ago. Not starting again now.
Lunatic fringe....we all know you're out there.
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