Home Forums Hunting & Shooting General Big Game Why Not Just Call In Arty - or an Air Strike...

It's pretty much congruous in the context of hunters and snipers using gear that enables precise shot placement under varying field conditions.

That dodged both questions I asked.

I will tell you as someone who has a professional background and considerable operational experience in the middle east, that your statement "Snipers - start at Six-hundred yards." for which you give no citation, is pure nonsense.

Professional precision rifle shooters are just as likely to take a shot at 75 yards, 100 yards or 300 yards in a city or small congested area as they are to take one past 600 yards. In fact today considerable amount of time is spent conducting MOUT training (military operations on urban terrain) since we are not fighting world war two style battles and we don't really do Carlos Hathcock style missions for the most part anymore.

Extensive training is often done in closer range very small target, small window of opportunity, type shooting, in very demanding environments.

Yes, snipers are trained to shoot at extended distances. But to say that for snipers the ranges start at 600 yards, that is simply not true.

To give you a real world example or two.

This picture was taken from an overwatch position. There are Iraqi police and soldiers that can never be trusted as to if/when they are going to turn on you/the person you are assigned to protect. The Iraqis have belt fed MGs in this pic. This was a High Threat Protection Detail for diplomats and dignitaries.



The shots required for guys on overwatch are going to be very close and very difficult once you get 6-8 more cars in that courtyard and 20 more people, and it is wall to wall people moving in different directions.

Similar story here:




In this situation there was both a sniper threat, regualr insurgent attack threat and as usual a bomb threat. The shots engagement distances were expected to be anywhere from point blank to over 1K yards.



The building on the left side of the photo was a known "bad guy" location and we expected to receive fire from it, if we received fire from extended ranges.



As you can see, the today's professional shooter does not begin his job at 600 yards.

Certainly not still hunting or stalking at typical hunting ranges.


And a sniper starts out as an Expert qualified Marksman.

Why is that?


If one needs crutches for typical hunting ranges?

... one is handicapped.

Simple as that.




GR

"Expert qualified Marksman".

Which is it? There are four tiers of proficiency, Marksman being second, above Unqualified. Expert is the highest level.

Can't be both.

Those "crutches" you are deriding can often be field expediant and help insure a good shot. In the hunting field, they can help avoid gutshooting or completely missing, which is doubly sad if it is ego-driven. One has a responsibility to make a humane shot. To let pride or ego dictate otherwise shows a narrowmindedness that is not something I'd admire.

Garandimal,

You could very well be the 2022 version of Savage_99 that used to post here – pretty much a pontificating, sanctimonious prick that didn't know what he didn't know.

Another gem:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/16034925/1

REDUX ! !

Define "typical hunting ranges." But set that aside for a minute and answer this:

If you had a 250 yard shot at a buck or a bull and a rock solid rest over a rock or a log, would you use the rest?

GR is mentally frozen in his chosen shooting genre. There's nothing wrong with that, but there is no reasoning with him.

After spending 25+ years active duty, I might have shot the M16A1/A2 for qual out to 500 meters or yards with irons, loop slings, M193 or M855 ammo. I might have done that a time or two. 16th Award Rifle Expert, highest score 246/250.

Anyhoo, just to give some background. Now, by 'cheating', with bipods, optics, beanbag, LRF, I'm able to make shots at MUCH further distances, on much smaller targets.


There's a reason the scoring rings are smaller with modern gear.

.

WTF is this thread even about?

Guess the OP uses a flinlock ML?

Sound like a Sharpmans thread. 😂🤣😂🤣

If you read through the thread, you will see that Natural Support is addressed.

It's part of being a hunter.

So is basic Marksmanship.


Bringing crutches with you into the field?

... is Special Olympics.




GR

A competent shooter may not need "crutches", but a wise and competent shooter builds the most stable position as is practicable.

LOL, why does the name Charles Emerson Winchester III pop into my head every time I read one of your posts?

I killed a piebald doe at 270 yards last season. It was the longest shot I've taken at a deer in over 20 years. I sat down and rested my rifle along side a small tree. It was also the the first time I'd used a rest to kill a deer in over 20 years. The other five deer I killed last season were all inside 65 yards and all taken off hand as is usual for me. I practice my off hand shooting regularly all year because that's the way I kill most of my deer and I'm usually close enough that I have no need to use a rest.

Probably because you spend more time watchin' television than you do working on Marksmanship.

... hence your reliance on, and visceral defense of, crutches.


Everyone deserves a trophy, right?

Yours just isn't for marksmanship or hunting skills.




GR

Nah, that's not it, I haven't seen MASH in years.

Probably because Charles Emerson Winchester III was almost as good at bloviation as you are.

You put the blow in bloviation.

Practice snapping-in/dry-firing for ~ 30 min. every wknd.


At the range - always shoot standing or on a mat, unless checkin' a scope.

Rifles are ~ 50/50 aperture/scope sighted.


Have shooting stands w/ round AR500 targets, 5" over 8".

Aperture sighted Rifles - shoot at 200 yds., which equates to 2.66 MOA over 4.0 MOA.

Scope sighted Rifles - shoot at 250 yds., which equates to 2.0 MOA over 3.2 MOA.

8" - Rapid-fire Standing/Kneeling/Sitting w/ hasty sling.
5" - Slow-fire Sitting/Prone w/ cuff sling.


Marksmanship - is a skill.




GR

Garand, given your purist views on marksmanship, how do you feel about the specialized artificial support accoutrements seen here, especially the heavy strapped shooting coat, glove, eye patches, and so on?

And the Mouse gun.