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Recently became the owner of 2 44 magnum pistols. One is a 7.5" Ruger Super Redhawk and the other is a Smith and Wesson 629 Performance Center hunter model. I would like to shoot them more and get better accustomed/comfortable using them. I am not a very good pistol shot as I have not shot pistols very much. I am also new to reloading pistols but have been loading rifles for years.


I am interested in a lighter recoiling load. What I have is 200 Hornady 240gr XTP's and 500 various head stamped brass. The powders I currently have are W296, Lil Gun, 300 MP, and I believe that is all but willing to get whatever I need.

I am having trouble finding pistol primers and heard that possibly Large Rifle primers could be used?

Thanks
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Hard to beat 8 to 9 grains of Unique with a 240 gr Keith style semi-wadcutter for a plinking load.

For hunting, I use a 250 gr LBT WFN hard cast bullet with 10 grains of Unique.
Works great on feral hogs and deer here at the Ranch.


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IME the worst thing you can do is shoot full power loads all the time when you first start shooting a 44 mag. A 200gr-220gr lead bullet and a load that will give you 900fps-100fps will be a good load to practice with.


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Don't have any lead bullets but do have the XTP's. Can you substitute the load data for lead with Jacketed bullets?

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9.0 grs of unique and a 240 gr keith is pretty well know and fun to practice with!

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17-18 gn of 2400 under a lead 240 gn semi-wadcutter.


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Originally Posted by HeavyBarrel
Don't have any lead bullets but do have the XTP's. Can you substitute the load data for lead with Jacketed bullets?

HeavyBarrel


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My reloading manual does not show any reduced loads.

Any opinions on using Large Rifle primers in the 44 Mag? I can't find Large Pistol anywhere but do have a stash of Large Rifle.

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Large rifle primers won’t work, the cups are a different height than large pistol primers.

I don’t load anything but the above mentioned 10gr Unique under a Keith bullet anymore. But I have in the past and one of my notes in my load book is for the old Hornady 240 JHP over 9gr of Unique. I believe an older Hornady manual I have showed that load. I can’t think of any reason it wouldn’t be fine under the XTP. PowerPistol is another good powder that is similar to Unique you might keep an eye out for when shopping.

The 9-10gr Unique load isn’t really a reduced load, more like a mid range load that will give between 1100-1200fps depending on barrel length but it is much easier to shoot with the reduced blast and recoil plus no giant fireball that some factory loads produce. I have shot through a 6 foot black bear diagonally with the 9gr load and pigs up to 300lbs with both the 9 and 10gr load, some of them lengthwise, I’ve never caught a bullet. To my way of thinking it’s really all that’s needed.

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Thanks. I have read different opinions on the primer situation. Would love to find the Large pistol primers but all local stores say they have not seen any in 2 years? The brass I will use for the reduced loads will only be used for such so would using a Large Rifle primer pocket reamer be okay to seat the Large Rifle Primers a little deeper?

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My .44 Magnum load for many years has been 7.5gr. of Unique and a 200gr. RNFP cast bullet. If you want to step it up some 9.0gr. Unique is also a good load.

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The loads and bullets for 44 Russian data work very well.


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Think .44-40.

Look at reliable data from the powder or bullet companies, I start with Hodgdon and Alliant.

The 3 powders you have are for full power loads, trying to reduce them will result in erratic pressures. Find Universal, Power Pistol, Unique or any of a dozen other medium burn rate powders. People all have their favorites, but there are many useful ones.

Then pick up some plated or coated bullets of about 200 grains, load them to 800 - 1000 fps. You can use the XTPs, but it seems like a waste and by slowing down heavy bullets you can run out of sight adjustment.

Mid-range loads of this sort will cause much less wear and tear on you pistol and on you. They will accomplish 99% of everything you need to do and allow you to practice for the times you use the full power XTPs.


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To use large rifle primers you would have to deepen the pockets 10-11 thou. I wouldn’t do it.



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Primer specs...

SR & SP are the same size.....cup thickness are different

Been subbing SR primers in my 9mm & 45 ACP

https://ballistictools.com/articles/primer-pocket-depth-and-diameter.php


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Originally Posted by HeavyBarrel
Recently became the owner of 2 44 magnum pistols. One is a 7.5" Ruger Super Redhawk and the other is a Smith and Wesson 629 Performance Center hunter model. I would like to shoot them more and get better accustomed/comfortable using them. I am not a very good pistol shot as I have not shot pistols very much. I am also new to reloading pistols but have been loading rifles for years.


I am interested in a lighter recoiling load. What I have is 200 Hornady 240gr XTP's and 500 various head stamped brass. The powders I currently have are W296, Lil Gun, 300 MP, and I believe that is all but willing to get whatever I need.

I am having trouble finding pistol primers and heard that possibly Large Rifle primers could be used?

Thanks
HeavyBarrel



Look around for some Trailboss 4-6 grs is a fun load with any bullet

You'll never double charge a case either

LP & LR primers can't/shouldn't be sub'd for one another


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Large rifle primers will work, but be aware that they will not seat flush. You'll have to seat a couple in empty cases to make sure they won't bind your pistols.

6.5gr of any fast pistol powder (Titegroup, Clays, Bullseye, etc.) will give you about 950fps from a 4" barrel with the 200gr XTPs. Will not be position sensitive and you should find the recoil mild.

WLR mag primer height = .128"
CCI350 mag pistol primer height =.119"

Works in my revolver, but you need to test yours. Also, different primer vendors can have slightly different heights as well as different pocket depths for different brass.

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You're playing with fire to use LR primers in revolvers, you can get a slam fire against the recoil shield & that's not a good thing! Better to wait & find some LP primers & play it safe than damage your gun or your hand, your call.
I've taken many deer with 10.0 grs of Unique with the Keith 250 gr bullet, or you can deep seat it over the top driving band & drop to 7.5grs of Unique & get about the same velocity in a magnum case. It won't be exact but close, a deer won't know the difference.
If you look around you might find someone who will trade you 100 LP primers for 100 of something you have on hand, it's worth a try until things loosen up a bit, good luck.

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9.0 grains of Unique beneath my home cast 218 SWC…….very accurate and very pleasant to shoot! memtb


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No buddy burns Trailboss ?


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Originally Posted by Idaho1945
you can get a slam fire against the recoil shield

You can also get AIDS from water fountains.

You know better, don't spread FUD.

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Originally Posted by tikkanut
No buddy burns Trailboss ?
Why would you if you have other powders available? It meters like gravel and you get less for your money since it comes in 12oz cans. I’ve used it successfully for cast plinking loads in rifle cartridges but I don’t think it’s the best tool in the box for handgun loads.

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Light loads for .44 Magnum are called .44 Specials. My everyday load for .44 Special is the 250 grain Keith bullet or the 255 grain Thompson bullet with 8 grains of Unique. My hunting load is 17 grains of Alliant 2400 under the same bullets. The hunting load is near magnum class but still just a hot .44 Special. These are loaded in .44 Special brass not magnum.

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Originally Posted by UpThePole
The loads and bullets for 44 Russian data work very well.

DO NOT substitute load data for .44 Russian putting it into a .44 Magnum case. The case volume is substantially different.

Go get some different powder, more suitable for lower velocities, and some cast bullets, preferably lighter weight ones. A 175 grain truncated cone flat point, 180, or 200 grain full wadcutter and appropriate powder will get you where you need to be quite easily.

Lastly be careful who you take advice from.

There are a BUNCH of guys who give advice that simply are parrotting, based off of something they read somewhere else, and don't have actual experience in what they are posting. They will look something up online then regurgitate it as if they have done it themselves, which they have not.

You can go over to the castboolitforum and ask around over there for reduced loads in .44 mag brass and you will likely get a decent amount of info to get you started.


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Originally Posted by TheKid
Originally Posted by tikkanut
No buddy burns Trailboss ?
Why would you if you have other powders available? It meters like gravel and you get less for your money since it comes in 12oz cans. I’ve used it successfully for cast plinking loads in rifle cartridges but I don’t think it’s the best tool in the box for handgun loads.



I use it in a variety of rds....

Because it's on my bench....bought it long before sleepy joes china flu

Oh...9 oz bottles


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OP, with the 240XTP and your W296 (same as H110), 23 to 23.5 grains should be accurate, and also a non-event recoil wise in either of the guns you've listed. If you're looking for something a bit less energetic 12.5 of HS6 is a good load with the 240XTP, running around 1100-1150 fps - this one is a few tenths above the start load for jacketed 240's in Speer #13, and back when I could both see and hold, could keep it on an 8" plate from 60 yards off my hind legs.

None of the 3 powders you've listed are good candidates for reduced loads, especially the 300MP in my experience. At any load level below max it's more than a little bit erratic.

For other less than full throttle 44 data, the June 2006 issue of Handloader had an article that although focused on the M29, featured 3 levels of loads: Light Target, Mid-Range and Max. It's well worth tracking down the back issue.

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Found 1000 Large Pistol Primers. Traded a friend 1000 Mag Rifle for them so I am set on bullets, Brass and Primers for a while. Headed out Friday to see if I can round up some Unique as there has been many people suggest that for light loads.

Thanks for all the advice

HeavyBarrel



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all loads for .44 Mag have a stated starting point for the powder charge. Many are not safe or reliable if loaded below that point. None of the .44 mag loads are going to hurt you, or be unmanageable.


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Unique, in my neighborhood, has not been available. Good luck. I would use it or Bullseye if i could find either.

Meanwhile Red Dot and 700x powders, while data is hard to find (https://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant.html), has been working in my special level loads/mag brass for my 44 mag firearms.


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I got my first .44 Mag, a Ruger blued 7 1/2" SBH, in the early '70s. For almost 30 years I shot almost full book charges of WW 296 behind my home cast 240 and 250 grain lead bullets.

Then in 2000 I went through a very nasty divorce and my ex stole that pistol and gave it to her then boyfriend. As soon as the divorce was final I bought another 7 1/2" Ruger SBH, this time in Stainless and shortly after that the ex's boyfriend gave me back my blued SBH. Both of those pistols shot well with my WW 296 handloads.

Then a few years ago I decided that I needed a 4" S&W 629, and it quickly became one of my favorite pistols, and the .44 that I shoot the most. Maybe it was me getting older or the shorter barrel of the 629 inspired me to start shooting .44 Specials in it. They became so fun to shoot that I bought a Lee 430240 6 cavity mould and those bullets in front of 6.0 grains of Clays Universal powder is now my "shoot every week" .44 loads.

Like @EddySouthgate posted earlier, "Light loads for .44 Magnum are called .44 Specials."


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Quote
…They became so fun to shoot that I bought a Lee 430240 6 cavity mould and those bullets in front of 6.0 grains of Clays Universal powder is now my "shoot every week" .44 loads.

In the interest of safety I need to point out that there is no such thing as “Clays Universal” powder. There is the fast “Clays” and there is the slower “Universal”. Hodgdon originally introduced the latter as “Universal Clays” - a terrible confusing name which greatly increased the risk of less careful reloaders substituting “Universal” load data when using “Clays” powder. The result could easily be an overload with the imaginable consequences - see Hodgdon’s .44 Mag data below. They renamed the powder “Universal” some years ago but as we see here, the risk of confusing the two still exists.

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Congrats on the new handguns! The .44 Magnum is probably my favorite cartridge, outside of the .22 LR. Like .22 LRs, I feel one can never have enough .44s.

I've never loaded mine super light, but for more moderate, 1,000-1,200-FPS, loads, I've used a lot of Unique. The problem with Unique is that it will sometimes "bridge" in some powder measures, which gives one case that's about four grains light on powder and then the next one will be about four grains too heavy. This is a disastrous situation if you seat a bullet without catching it. You can help protect from this by closely checking powder levels before seating bullets or better yet, weighing all charges.

For sub-1000 fps loads, I've used some Red Dot and Winchester 231/Hodgdon HP-38, both of which worked well, but you have to be REALLY careful not to double charge a case with these powders because they don't fill the case well. When I was a young guy, I saved up and found a like-new 3-screw Super Blackhawk. My friend, who was a new handloader, picked my gun up off the bench and stuffed his handloads in it, and proceeded to blow the cylinder and top strap off the gun with a double charge of fast burning powder.

For these reasons, I've mostly eliminated using Unique and many other powders and have switched most of my mid-range .44 loads to Power Pistol, which performs similarly to Unique but without the bridging issue. It also fills the cases decently, though, I still weigh charges and do a visual check.

My other advice in addition to your plan of practicing with reduced loads is if you don't have one, get a .22 pistol to practice with in between shooting .44s, which can help alleviate any flinch you may be developing as you learn to shoot .44s. I really love .22 revolvers and semi-autos. An excellent .22 revolver for a low price is the Ruger Wrangler.

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Originally Posted by DoubleRadius
Quote
…They became so fun to shoot that I bought a Lee 430240 6 cavity mould and those bullets in front of 6.0 grains of Clays Universal powder is now my "shoot every week" .44 loads.

In the interest of safety I need to point out that there is no such thing as “Clays Universal” powder. There is the fast “Clays” and there is the slower “Universal”. Hodgdon originally introduced the latter as “Universal Clays” - a terrible confusing name which greatly increased the risk of less careful reloaders substituting “Universal” load data when using “Clays” powder. The result could easily be an overload with the imaginable consequences - see Hodgdon’s .44 Mag data below. They renamed the powder “Universal” some years ago but as we see here, the risk of confusing the two still exists.

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You're right. Back in my Skeet shooting competition days 25-30 years ago when the Clays line of shotgun powders came out I loaded "Clays" for 12 Gauge, "Interational Clays" for 20 ga, and "Universal Clays" for 28 ga. I guess I've just stuck with the "Clays Universal" name just like saying "H 4831" or "IMR 4831" when other reloaders simply say "4831." (And yes, I know that there is a difference in burning rates between the different manufacturer's 4831 powders.)


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8gr of Unique worked very well. Fired about 18 this evening and loaded another 50. Accuracy seems good and POI is really close at 20 yards as the Hornady factory XTP's. Already able to group a good bit better knowing the gun is not gonna fly out of my hand. Looking forward to getting decent with the gun. Scheduled an accuracy package from Mike Heffron because I am sure I can tighten things up with a trigger job.

Thanks for all the advice. Can someone school me on lead? I had a bad experience years ago with a 357 Mag and some factory lead ammo and been hesitant to mess with it since.

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Shooting .44 Special ammo in a revolver chambered for .44 Magnum will eventually result in a ring of fouling that will not allow chambering of Magnum ammo. Much the same as firing .22 Short ammo in a rifle chambered for .22 LR. I shoot .44 Special loads assembled in .44 Magnum brass, my reduced load consists of 7.5gr. of Unique and a lead 200gr. RNFP "cowboy bullet". A load that's accurate, easy on the shooter and the gun, it's been my go to load for more than 25yrs.. Try it, you'll like it.

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The load I shot tonight was 8gr of Unique and a 240gr Hornady XTP in 44 Mag brass. they were accurate at 20 yards, more so than me.

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The best thing you can do to get started in the right direction with cast bullets is to measure your cylinder throats and slug your bore. You can then determine whether you’re likely to have luck getting lead bullets to shoot based on the bore and throat relationship. And if the throats are good to go it’ll tell you what size bullets you need to order.

If it interests you enough to do some reading on the subject Veral Smith’s book, “Jacketed performance with cast bullets” is a very informative and interesting read.

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I agree with gunwizard, on the forming of the carbon ring in the cylinder when using the shorter brass. I always try to use brass designed for the cylinder……whether it be my .357’s, 44 Mags, or my 460 S&W…..I enjoy shooting light loads in all of them, much more than cleaning carbon rings! 😉 memtb

Last edited by memtb; 08/07/22.

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Originally Posted by memtb
I agree with gunwizard, on the forming of the carbon ring in the cylinder when using the shorter brass. I always try to use brass designed for the cylinder……whether it be my .357’s, 44 Mags, or my 460 S&W…..I enjoy shooting light loads in all of them, much more than cleaning carbon rings! 😉 memtb


Only of you never clean your chambers. This is a non issue if you occasionally cleand the cylinders.



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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by memtb
I agree with gunwizard, on the forming of the carbon ring in the cylinder when using the shorter brass. I always try to use brass designed for the cylinder……whether it be my .357’s, 44 Mags, or my 460 S&W…..I enjoy shooting light loads in all of them, much more than cleaning carbon rings! 😉 memtb


Only of you never clean your chambers. This is a non issue if you occasionally cleand the cylinders.



I do clean……occasionally! However, carbon is rather difficult to remove……much easier if it’s never been put there! Why risk carbon, when simply using a case of proper length for the cylinder will avoid this potential issue! memtb


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Originally Posted by memtb
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by memtb
I agree with gunwizard, on the forming of the carbon ring in the cylinder when using the shorter brass. I always try to use brass designed for the cylinder……whether it be my .357’s, 44 Mags, or my 460 S&W…..I enjoy shooting light loads in all of them, much more than cleaning carbon rings! 😉 memtb


Only of you never clean your chambers. This is a non issue if you occasionally cleand the cylinders.



I do clean……occasionally! However, carbon is rather difficult to remove……much easier if it’s never been put there! Why risk carbon, when simply using a case of proper length for the cylinder will avoid this potential issue! memtb


I've fired a lot of 45 Colt cartridges in 454 and I have found it not to be a problem

I read about it here on the net but I find it is over blown and not a concern of mine

Last edited by jwp475; 08/09/22.


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Have a look at top end 44 Special loads and you will be fine.


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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by memtb
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by memtb
I agree with gunwizard, on the forming of the carbon ring in the cylinder when using the shorter brass. I always try to use brass designed for the cylinder……whether it be my .357’s, 44 Mags, or my 460 S&W…..I enjoy shooting light loads in all of them, much more than cleaning carbon rings! 😉 memtb


Only of you never clean your chambers. This is a non issue if you occasionally cleand the cylinders.



I do clean……occasionally! However, carbon is rather difficult to remove……much easier if it’s never been put there! Why risk carbon, when simply using a case of proper length for the cylinder will avoid this potential issue! memtb


I've fired a lot of 45 Colt cartridges in 454 and I have found it to be a problem

I read about it here on the net but I g ind it is over blown and not a concern of mine


Happy for you!

I bought a very lightly used 460 XVR, which had very few rounds through it….the majority of those being .454 Casull’s.

I aggressively cleaned it after purchase, though didn’t use a bore-scope to examine….as I have never had a carbon issue prior! When working on an accuracy load, I found that one chamber consistently through a shot outside of the group. I measured throats and found some slight differences. The cylinder was sent to a very reputable gunsmith to address the throats. One of his comments upon his work completion was a bit of carbon that required some pretty aggressive cleaning with a 50 cal brush and solvent.


The first thing I did at the time of purchase, was to buy a bunch of 460 brass…..I gave the .454 brass to a friend. “ALL” of my shooting was with 460 brass! Summary: with minimal shooting with short brass, there was a carbon deposit!

Should I have been more alert/aggressive with my initial cleaning …..yes! I never suspected that with minimal use it would have carbon deposits! Could the 50+ thousand psi chamber pressures from the .454’s be the cause for the very hard to remove carbon deposits……perhaps - maybe even likely!

Personally, I think that it’s not worth saving a few bucks to shoot short brass in my revolvers! JMO. memtb

Last edited by memtb; 08/09/22.

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Originally Posted by memtb
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by memtb
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by memtb
I agree with gunwizard, on the forming of the carbon ring in the cylinder when using the shorter brass. I always try to use brass designed for the cylinder……whether it be my .357’s, 44 Mags, or my 460 S&W…..I enjoy shooting light loads in all of them, much more than cleaning carbon rings! 😉 memtb


Only of you never clean your chambers. This is a non issue if you occasionally cleand the cylinders.



I do clean……occasionally! However, carbon is rather difficult to remove……much easier if it’s never been put there! Why risk carbon, when simply using a case of proper length for the cylinder will avoid this potential issue! memtb


I've fired a lot of 45 Colt cartridges in 454 and I have found it to be a problem

I read about it here on the net but I g ind it is over blown and not a concern of mine


Happy for you!

I bought a very lightly used 460 XVR, which had very few rounds through it….the majority of those being .454 Casull’s.

I aggressively cleaned it after purchase, though didn’t use a bore-scope to examine….as I have never had a carbon issue prior! When working on an accuracy load, I found that one chamber consistently through a shot outside of the group. I measured throats and found some slight differences. The cylinder was sent to a very reputable gunsmith to address the throats. One of his comments upon his work completion was a bit of carbon that required some pretty aggressive cleaning with a 50 cal brush and solvent.


The first thing I did at the time of purchase, was to buy a bunch of 460 brass…..I gave the .454 brass to a friend. “ALL” of my shooting was with 460 brass! Summary: with minimal shooting with short brass, there was a carbon deposit!

Should I have been more alert/aggressive with my initial cleaning …..yes! I never suspected that with minimal use it would have carbon deposits! Could the 50+ thousand psi chamber pressures from the .454’s be the cause for the very hard to remove carbon deposits……perhaps - maybe even likely!

Personally, I think that it’s not worth saving a few bucks to shoot short brass in my revolvers! JMO. memtb

Cost has nothing to do with using 45 colt brass in my 454s. It identifies the difference in pressure loads for the revolvers that can't take 65,000 PSI loads.
I generally load 30,000 PSI in my 45 Cokt brass for use in 6 shot Rugers



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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by memtb
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by memtb
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by memtb
I agree with gunwizard, on the forming of the carbon ring in the cylinder when using the shorter brass. I always try to use brass designed for the cylinder……whether it be my .357’s, 44 Mags, or my 460 S&W…..I enjoy shooting light loads in all of them, much more than cleaning carbon rings! 😉 memtb


Only of you never clean your chambers. This is a non issue if you occasionally cleand the cylinders.



I do clean……occasionally! However, carbon is rather difficult to remove……much easier if it’s never been put there! Why risk carbon, when simply using a case of proper length for the cylinder will avoid this potential issue! memtb


I've fired a lot of 45 Colt cartridges in 454 and I have found it to be a problem

I read about it here on the net but I g ind it is over blown and not a concern of mine


Happy for you!

I bought a very lightly used 460 XVR, which had very few rounds through it….the majority of those being .454 Casull’s.

I aggressively cleaned it after purchase, though didn’t use a bore-scope to examine….as I have never had a carbon issue prior! When working on an accuracy load, I found that one chamber consistently through a shot outside of the group. I measured throats and found some slight differences. The cylinder was sent to a very reputable gunsmith to address the throats. One of his comments upon his work completion was a bit of carbon that required some pretty aggressive cleaning with a 50 cal brush and solvent.


The first thing I did at the time of purchase, was to buy a bunch of 460 brass…..I gave the .454 brass to a friend. “ALL” of my shooting was with 460 brass! Summary: with minimal shooting with short brass, there was a carbon deposit!

Should I have been more alert/aggressive with my initial cleaning …..yes! I never suspected that with minimal use it would have carbon deposits! Could the 50+ thousand psi chamber pressures from the .454’s be the cause for the very hard to remove carbon deposits……perhaps - maybe even likely!

Personally, I think that it’s not worth saving a few bucks to shoot short brass in my revolvers! JMO. memtb

Cost has nothing to do with using 45 colt brass in my 454s. It identifies the difference in pressure loads for the revolvers that can't take 65,000 PSI loads.
I generally load 30,000 PSI in my 45 Cokt brass for use in 6 shot Rugers


I also have a system to elimate any potential “screw-ups” in loads!

Example: my light load 460’s are in nickel plated brass…..maximum or high pressure stuff in conventional brass! I’m color blind…..but, even I can tell the difference! 😉


I guess we each have our reasons for our methods…..which we shouldn’t have to justify to anyone!

Have a great day! memtb


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For lack of use I sold my 5.5" Redhawk .44 mag several years back and then a few months ago I started missing having a .44 mag around to shoot.

I found a minty safe queen 7.5" stainless 1989 mfg Redhawk (not Super) in late May priced right and I jumped on it.

I wasn't looking to work up a hard thumping hunting load I just wanted something that was comfortable to shoot and accurate enough to plink with out to 75yds. to 100 yds. and still be able to harvest game with if I was out and had the opportunity using the bullets I had on hand which were Hornady 240 gr. XTP's......on the box Hornady says the 240 gr. .44 XTP's recommended velocity is between 700 and 1500 fps.

I had some H110, 2400, Unique and Winch. 231 on hand and I picked W231 because I've got quite a bit of it.


Hodgdon W231 data using a 8.275" barrel:

Min. 8.0 grs. @ 1021 fps
Max. 11.0 grs. @1272 fps


My accuracy load with the 240 gr. XTP's ended up being 9.5 grs. of W231 powder with Winch. std / mag LP primers.

I haven't fired the load past about 60-65 yds. or ran it across a chrony but it is comfortable to shoot and accurate......I'm happy.




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Any load in the book for 44 Special can be duplicated exactly in 44 mag brass. Exact duplication means the OAL of the 44 special load shall be used.

It does not matter that the grooves in the bullet do not align with the end of the brass.

I can not help you find primers. Your revolvers may or may not fire the harder rifle primers.


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Yes, LP and LR primers will physically interchange. They are of the same dimensions.

Small Pistol primers have a shorter cup than Small Rifle primers.

Powder suggestion for those reduced velocity loads. I really like Titegroup for this application in 41 mag and 327 Fed reduced velocity loads. Beware, it will use a small volume of case capacity and can be easily double charged.


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Yes, LP and LR primers will physically interchange. They are of the same dimensions.

Small Pistol primers have a shorter cup than Small Rifle primers.

Powder suggestion for those reduced velocity loads. I really like Titegroup for this application in 41 mag and 327 Fed reduced velocity loads. Beware, it will use a small volume of case capacity and can be easily double charged.
Since the Biden primer shortage of this past year I have used up all of my SP primers and have had to dip into my SR primer supply for pistol primers.

I have loaded and shot at least 1000 SR primers in .38 Spl for my S&W revolvers and 9 mm in my Kimber and Springfield Armory pistols without any problems.


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Originally Posted by gunswizard
Shooting .44 Special ammo in a revolver chambered for .44 Magnum will eventually result in a ring of fouling that will not allow chambering of Magnum ammo. Much the same as firing .22 Short ammo in a rifle chambered for .22 LR. I shoot .44 Special loads assembled in .44 Magnum brass, my reduced load consists of 7.5gr. of Unique and a lead 200gr. RNFP "cowboy bullet". A load that's accurate, easy on the shooter and the gun, it's been my go to load for more than 25yrs.. Try it, you'll like it.


The fouling ring is why I stopped using .44 Special brass in my S&W 329PD and started using .44 Magnum brass with 8.0 grains of Unique under a 240 grain SWC. The S&W 329PD is a great revolver to shoot with .44 Special level performance loads, but too much to handle for many people with full power .44 Magnum loads. I got my S&W 329PD back in 2005 for $540 from a guy who shot 10 rounds of full power .44 Magnum ammo in it and decided that it wasn't the right gun for him. I think that the S&W 329PD is a great .44 Special revolver and better looking than the 396-1 Mountain Lite that came out about the same time.

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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Yes, LP and LR primers will physically interchange. They are of the same dimensions.

Small Pistol primers have a shorter cup than Small Rifle primers.

Powder suggestion for those reduced velocity loads. I really like Titegroup for this application in 41 mag and 327 Fed reduced velocity loads. Beware, it will use a small volume of case capacity and can be easily double charged.
This is backwards on the primers. CCI issued a statement at the beginning of the current shortage stating that SR primers can be used safely in SP applications but not the other way around. LR primers have a different depth cup than LP.

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Originally Posted by TheKid
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Yes, LP and LR primers will physically interchange. They are of the same dimensions.

Small Pistol primers have a shorter cup than Small Rifle primers.

Powder suggestion for those reduced velocity loads. I really like Titegroup for this application in 41 mag and 327 Fed reduced velocity loads. Beware, it will use a small volume of case capacity and can be easily double charged.
This is backwards on the primers. CCI issued a statement at the beginning of the current shortage stating that SR primers can be used safely in SP applications but not the other way around. LR primers have a different depth cup than LP.
I stand corrected. vagaries of memory.

I measured a few samples.
CCI LR .126 in
CCI LP .118 in
Fed SP .1185 in
Rem SP .1185 in

I do not have any small rifle primers. But it is obvious that there is a significant difference between LR and LP.


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How do you "exactly duplicate the OAL of a .44 Special load" when using .44 Magnum brass ? Inquiring minds want to know.

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Originally Posted by gunswizard
How do you "exactly duplicate the OAL of a .44 Special load" when using .44 Magnum brass ? Inquiring minds want to know.


Deep seat the bullet and apply a light crimp



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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Yes, LP and LR primers will physically interchange. They are of the same dimensions.

Small Pistol primers have a shorter cup than Small Rifle primers.

Powder suggestion for those reduced velocity loads. I really like Titegroup for this application in 41 mag and 327 Fed reduced velocity loads. Beware, it will use a small volume of case capacity and can be easily double charged.
LP and LR primers have the same diameter but different heights. SR and SP primers are dimensionally the same.

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When loading .44 Special loads in .44 magnum brass I've always seated the bullet to the crimping groove and applied the same amount of crimp as I do when loading magnum loads. Why should a .44 Special load require a different amount of crimp ?

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Originally Posted by gunswizard
How do you "exactly duplicate the OAL of a .44 Special load" when using .44 Magnum brass ? Inquiring minds want to know.
Think about it a bit. It is not a complicated concept.

As an example, Speer # 15 recommends the 200 gr Gold dot over 7.6 gr Universal at 1.49 inches COAL as a max load in the 44 Spec.

So load it in 44 mag brass and seat the bullet to 1.49 inches COAL. Simple enough.

I have been using 41 special data to load the 41 mag at 41 special COAL for many, many years. I also use 32 Smith Long data as well as 32 H&R data to load 327 brass. At the proper COAL for the load data, sometimes the bullet is seated below the mouth of the brass. Often the brass crimps just over the canalure.

I can not take credit for the concept. It was advocated by the good Dr. Ken Howell on these boards several times before his death.

The advantages are two fold. You never have to worry about cleaning the chambers between using 44 special ammo and 44 mag. And you have ready sources of reduced load data at your fingertips in any reloading manual.

I can add photos if that is needed to clarify the issue.


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Originally Posted by gunswizard
When loading .44 Special loads in .44 magnum brass I've always seated the bullet to the crimping groove and applied the same amount of crimp as I do when loading magnum loads. Why should a .44 Special load require a different amount of crimp ?

The crimp is of less importance than is the internal capacity of the cartridge case. Handgun cartridges are very sensitive to changes in case capacity. Seating a bullet deeper or more shallow will change chamber pressure and velocities drastically.

Often time "special" loads will not develop enough pressure to burn completely or uniformly when loaded to magnum internal capacities. It behooves us to duplicate the internal capacity of the case the load was developed in. At least to some approximation.


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Originally Posted by dla
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
Yes, LP and LR primers will physically interchange. They are of the same dimensions.

Small Pistol primers have a shorter cup than Small Rifle primers.

Powder suggestion for those reduced velocity loads. I really like Titegroup for this application in 41 mag and 327 Fed reduced velocity loads. Beware, it will use a small volume of case capacity and can be easily double charged.
LP and LR primers have the same diameter but different heights. SR and SP primers are dimensionally the same.
Thanks again for the correction. It was addressed earlier.


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Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
The crimp is of less importance than is the internal capacity of the cartridge case. Handgun cartridges are very sensitive to changes in case capacity. Seating a bullet deeper or more shallow will change chamber pressure and velocities drastically.

Often time "special" loads will not develop enough pressure to burn completely or uniformly when loaded to magnum internal capacities. It behooves us to duplicate the internal capacity of the case the load was developed in. At least to some approximation.


I too load using 44 special load data in a 44 mag case but I have been crimping cast bullets using bullet's crimp grove. Thus ignoring the OAL and consequently not coming close, apparently, to achieving the book data fps.

Is there data, a formula, or otherwise a rule of thumb that would apply to say add (fill the blank) .grains of powder to replicate special load chamber pressure and velocity when using mag brass?


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Originally Posted by mjac
Originally Posted by Idaho_Shooter
The crimp is of less importance than is the internal capacity of the cartridge case. Handgun cartridges are very sensitive to changes in case capacity. Seating a bullet deeper or more shallow will change chamber pressure and velocities drastically.

Often time "special" loads will not develop enough pressure to burn completely or uniformly when loaded to magnum internal capacities. It behooves us to duplicate the internal capacity of the case the load was developed in. At least to some approximation.


I too load using 44 special load data in a 44 mag case but I have been crimping cast bullets using bullet's crimp grove. Thus ignoring the OAL and consequently not coming close, apparently, to achieving the book data fps.

Is there data, a formula, or otherwise a rule of thumb that would apply to say add (fill the blank) .grains of powder to replicate special load chamber pressure and velocity when using mag brass?


As long as the base of the bullet is the same distance to the case head then the pressure will be the same in either case.
Simply seat the bullet deeper in the longer case



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Ok. Got it. My thinking cap was on backwards.

Someone *might* be able to figure out what would powder (s) add to make up the .125 case difference but it sure ain't me.

It's seat deeper, and ignore the crimp grove for me.

Thanks


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