Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Cant say enough bad about Damg colorado parks

The leftover draw was today at 9. Apparently they let people log in early so the actual draw starts who knows when. There were 6 licenses on the list that I had applied for and given point instead. Now have 6 points for antelope. So much for the point system.

I got on, in queue then start the password BS. Licenses I wanted gone. They should not let anyone log in until the stated time, or reverse the line for early loggers.

I know the solution is quit or move, easily said.

Are you saying that you feel people shouldn’t even be allowed to log in to their CPW account before the time comes that particular licenses go on sale?

I am not sure I agree with that, at all.

I got on about 9 MT as that was the time they said to get on. Had about an 8 min. wait. Did get the leftover private land cow tag I was after.

Sorry about your bad luck. First time I used their online service. Last time I got a leftover I was working at the ranch and just got in line the morning they became available with everyone else at the Hot Sulphur Springs station.

I feel your frustration. I have never been successful at getting a leftover since they went to the online system.

I feel that it should be limited to those of us who bought the qualifying license and applied unsuccessfully, but they didn’t call and ask me.

I’ve heard that people who are more tech savvy than me have programs that auto fill login and CC info to be the fastest on the draw when the tags go on sale. I don’t know anything about it but a CPW employee told me the tech is out there.

Check back next week, you might get lucky.

I got a license a couple years ago from the leftover list, I remember when reading through their instructions they advised logging in early. I logged in and the system made you wait until the official start time before it allowed your selections to be made. Ive been both successful and unsuccessful during that process. I dont have an issue with it.

I am glad they changed the process to where they post an updated list and start over every week. Now you don’t have to babysit the computer all day everyday waiting for a license to appear on the list.

I agree that they should notify previously unsuccessful applicants of an available tag they applied for, before posting it as a leftover.

Pardon my ignorance…but how can there be a leftover tag if folks had applied for that tag and were unsuccessful in drawing it? That means there were more applicants than tags, right? Maybe you’re referring to folks who applied for any tag unsuccessfully, should have dibs towards the leftovers?

Is this dealing with returned tags or a system like Idaho’s where you need to buy it before a particular date or else it is forfeited?

Yes.

Log into your account any time. But require logging in for something that is not available earlier to start at said time. I will admit to not being computer ssavvy. I could understand one license in Pawnee GL not being paid, but six?

Sounds like it's not a draw at all.

The leftovers are tags not drawn for lack of applicants, returns, or unpaid for tags that go first back into the leftover draw and then any that come back or are still left get posted to the leftover list to be bought on a first come basis.
Leftover draw gives 100 percent preference to youth applicants.

The beef I have it that to apply in the primary draw you must buy a small game or other applicable license. In the secondary draw and leftover list you don’t have to buy a license. I see no reason to not give preference to people who already have some skin in the game by buying a license and paying application fees. With it all being computerized they could have a weekly drawing for available leftovers from the pool of applicants for the that unit since their info is already in the system.

Another peeve of mine is that when I buy a small game license for approximately $100 and don’t draw but decide to go buy an OTC bull tag I’m still out the full cost of the bull tag. Whereas if you just go buy an OTC bull tag without applying for the draw and buying the required qualifying license you pay the tag fee and that’s it. I would have to check but I think you’re allowed to hunt small game if you have a valid big game license. I’m not driving 600 miles to go hunt rabbits anyway so the small game license does me no good other than allowing me to apply for the draw.

Correct, it's not a draw that the OP is referring to, it's a first come-first serve opportunity. The initial draw has taken place as well as a secondary draw and then comes the leftover list that is happening now.

I understand that I may not be that quick on the draw. But to log on at 8:40 and be put in a Queue for 25 min is NOT a level playing field. We can’t all log on an hour early. By 9:05, when it let me in, of course the tag I was after was gone. They said they made it once weekly to level the playing field. They missed the mark badly.

I was in at 9:00 am and tag was sold by 9:01 and not to me.I went threw both draws for this tag and didn't draw, and tag sold in less then One min.

I do think it would be a good idea to allow those who applied unsuccessfully for a tag to have first dibs to any of those tags that were returned or not paid for in time.

Logging into a system early though is about like standing in line for hours before an office opens, to be first in line. Those who want it most, do what they have to do to be first in line. I really don’t have an issue with that.

I tried to get my daughter a tag, she had applied for the first draw and second draw unsuccessfully. I got a bull tag in the second draw. There were three bull tags for our unit and I didn’t know there would be a line. I logged in at 8:45 and didn’t get to look until 9:05. Oh well she got a bear tag and can be there. Good enough for us. I’ll keep watching in case something comes up, never know when someone may back out. I guess she can also hunt grouse too with her qualifying license, woohoo

Shawn

Just remember, these are somebody’s “good ole days” mid nineties were mine

Shawn

Same experience for me today. 9 minute wait. No tag

You are incorrect. The only thing you can hunt in CO with a big game license, in addition to the animal the big game license is for, is coyotes while you are hunting big game. If you want to hunt rabbits, pheasants, grouse etc... you need a small game license. And it also needs to be pointed out that a spring turkey license is also a qualifying license so you can apply for a big game tag without buying a small game license if you bought a turkey tag. If you get caught shooting bunnies in CO without a small game license those are going to expensive bunnies if the warden catches you.

I grew up in CO (born in 1963) and can remember when you just drove to a sporting good store and bought a deer, elk, bear, and mountain lion right over the counter. If I remember correctly the first deer tag I bought in CO when I was 14 was something like $7 and an elk tag was about $12. Bear and lion were $10 each. You have always had to draw pronghorn, sheep and goat (moose were not in the state back then) but you could get a pronghorn every other year if you wanted. My father once told me he used to buy a sportsman license in CO back in the 50s and 60s that had 3 deer tags, an elk tag, bear tag and cougar tag for $20. Demand for tags in CO ruined a lot of good hunting.

My story exactly. Didn't draw in the primary draw, 5 tags left in the secondary, didn't draw. Logged on at 9 and at 9:01 all 5 gone.... I'll see next Tuesday if its on the returned tag list..

At this rate I can put a steady rest on my walker next time I hunt goats. Oops. I did say draw when it was a sale.

Might be time to find a friend out east if Denver. My old or private land connections died.

Important part the state still gets money.

I drew a ML cow tag in the primary draw and doe deer tag in the 2nd. Now I have to turn them back in. The Doc says no huntng for at least 6 months.
But you are right CPW licensing sucks.

A little off-topic, but the same is true for me with national forest general season doe permits in Texas. Use to be mail in a post card. I always got a doe permit without fail. Since it went online I have not gotten a single one.



Sorry to hear that saddlesore. Best wishes for your health.

I’d like to see this 3rd draw go to residents only.

I agree 100% i would also like to see more public land tags v private land tags because they have private land tags that never sale at all, roll them over to resident public land tags.

Those private land tags are needed to push elk off of private, besides, I’ve got one that is a B tag. Archery elk and a meat hunt

That is not happening though.

I agree but ‘turning’ them into unit wide tags will help even less.

yes i understand that but they do not sale all of them they always have a good number that do not get used that is what needs to be put in to resident only public land tags.

Most private land owners not all around here do not let the true public hunt there land a case of you have to know some one to gain accesses.

[quote=BeanMan

I agree but ‘turning’ them into unit wide tags will help even less.[/quote]

Requiring landowners to permit public hunts,and not just RFW 2-3 tags, in order to get crop damage tags and limit amount they can charge will go a long way to fixing the problems

What happens is people are successful in the original draw, but when the cpw tries to charge their card, it doesn't work. That license goes into the leftover list.

Yea,they give you X days after the draw to pay for it . If you card is not up to date, you lose. Also, some volunteer to turn their tag back in.That goes to the leftover list.

Some people put in draw for other states also, and then may get two tags that conflict, so they keep the best tag and turn in the other. I had to turn in my ML elk tag this week because I had a stroke and could not make the hunt in September.

Thanks for the explanation.
I am a bit confused though. Do you give a credit card number when you apply which of course may be inactivated or over limited (as dassa indicated) or do you just pay a draw fee but then need to pay for a tag if you do draw within X days.....which if you don't do, you forfeit it (as Saddlesore indicated)?

I guess I don't understand Colorado's system. I have applied there but it was a while back and don't do it anymore.

TheKid needs to apply a little reading comprehension to the 2022 CO big game rule pamphlet. That is all…

Best wishes for a full recovery! Hang in there, Saddlesore

I think a genius came up with an app that keeps you logged in and notifies you the moment a tag goes up for sale. Also, there are instructions on the CPW website explaining how to get just to the cusp of "logged in" on the day of leftovers sales. From there you only need to enter one more piece of info and click, then you are in line. Last year I lived there, I figured it out. My buddy got a goat tag by waiting patiently and watching. I don't miss that clusterfuque at all.

Go ahead and enlighten me as to what I’m missing. I do admit I was wrong on being able to hunt rabbits with a big game license.

There is no “leftover draw” anymore. There is a Secondary Draw open to all whether you were participating in the primary draw or not. One still has to purchase a “qualifying license” to enter the Secondary Draw but no preference points are used or awarded. Youth do get preference regardless of residence status. I’m surprised they don’t give special preference to ethnic minorities and the gender confused crowd…

Logging in to the CPW site at the opening bell for leftover list licenses has been a cluster fugg for years.

I apologize for my initial comment being a bit abrasive and rude. Happy Trails

Struck out again on the weekly updated list at 11 today. Hit enter as the clock turned, I've no idea how anyone gets a newly posted tag on the leftover list.

Shawn

Struck out again this week, there were four tags available for our area two Bull and two cows. Hit the button a little early and it kicked me out had to re log in and at 12:02 CST all were gone. A muzzleloader bull tag lasted about 5 minutes so I still have hope I’ll get my daughter a tag

Shawn

I read somewhere that you can get on CPW website early, complete prelim info, but stop before logging in or some such, waiting for the clock to hit the magic hour.

Perhaps someone here can share that technique. My info may be incorrect.

Best of luck!

Yes,you start it all, Log in, Confirm info and then there is hot button for "Procede". Hit it early and it will kick you out. Wait too long and those sought after tags are sold within -35 minutes.

I don't' play that Circle Jerk game any more. If there are only a few tags left for the secondary draw, chances are very very good that they will be taken by youth. I have no problem with that for sure. But time and time again when leftover tags go on sale the CPW lowest bidder's computer chokes, goes off line, and by the time they get it fixed and you get back online, you can't get online fast enough to get a coveted tag that several thousand other people are trying to get a tag too.I am sure as heck not going to play that game once a week when the list is updated

This is the first time I’ve tried this. I have a bull tag for first rifle and I’am desperately trying to get an elk tag for my 20 year old daughter. She has a bear tag but has never hunted out west. My first trip since 2012. I’ve nothing better to do on Wednesdays so I’ll give it a shot. It if it were just me I’d be leaving for archery

Shawn

Im not trying to be a smart ass or anything. Truely sincere. But I as well as oldest son have tried to do our best as others have stated here of running elk off of private property into public land. I realize its not much consolation. But last time I was able I know we ran at least 500 +\- out of our hay meadow.

I typically hunt cows. I have my big guy. Could care less about another bull.I go for the hunt, time spent with my family and friends, and the meat. And I will also admit that I have never been treated by anyone in Colorado in any other way that cordial. Including game officers.

I wish all good luck this season. To me each animal is a "trophy"!

I am fine with a cow as well. I have two bulls mounted and one is a giant for the public land I hunt. That’s how we got in this situation. We applied as a group and I selected a cow tag and she selected a bull tag. We had a chance at the bull tag because there were leftovers, she didn’t have any points and I had four. Well I forgot the group has the number of points as the fewest member. Needless to say, we didn’t draw. We applied separately in the second draw and as luck would have it I drew a bull tag and she got squat. Anyway, she’s going and will have a bear tag. Just hoping to amend my mistake and get her a tag.

Shawn

I would like to echo Kaywoodie’s sentiments. I’ve been hunting those elk critters in Colorado for 16 seasons and WA and MT before that. Time spent with family and friends on the hunt are way more important than antlers. My son prefers to get a cow tag and fill it as soon as possible then hunt deer the rest of the season. I get a bull tag and shoot the first legal one. That tenderloin we cooked last night was mighty fine, but I’ve had plenty of tag soup along the way!

I’ve always found the folks around Craig and Hamilton to be very cordial and helpful, unlike most jackwagons in WA State. The only rude behavior I’ve observed were from out of state hunters. I have also had positive experiences with CPW officers and testing folks at the Craig warehouse.

I do agree that the draw process has its warts. The whole license distribution process is currently under review by the commission and I doubt any changes will be favorable to non-residents.

Hey WAM. I have been at it for 46 years in Colorado, another 8-10 in NM.This year because of health I won't be doing it. First time close to 50 years I will miss a season. I too, now only shoot cows. I shot my last bull 2018. I have killed enough of those critters, I don't need to kill another, but I do like the meat.

I have three nice bulls mounted here in the house, one a 7x8 , antlers nailed up on the barn with no more room, antlers up in the rafters, and a pile here in the yard.

Most rank and file CPW guys are pretty decent. It's the top level that cater to everything our POS liberal governor wants that chaps my butt..I just wish WCO's would get out of their trucks and into back country where most of the illegal activities happen.

SS, I missed hunting in 2020 due to health issues. I did manage to get out the last day of late rifle deer season in November and passed on two good bucks. I just didn’t have the energy to deal with them. I had a great hunt in 2021 and hoping for a repeat this year. Someone said you never get a warning for your last hunt. It just comes like a thief in the night and then it’s gone. Happy Trails!

This^^^!

I’ve been suspicious for the last couple years something was going on with the secondary draw.
I was on one of the “Focus Groups “ this spring and an acquaintance of mine, who is a former wildlife commissioner, was also in the group. He and the CPW people facilitating the group said they know it’s happening. CPW hasn’t figured out what to do about it.
People are able to program their computers—really powerful computers with really good internet—to recognize the hunt codes they want, and within seconds (or milliseconds) of the system coming online the computer scans available hunt codes, chooses one or multiple codes, checks out and pays for it.

Friggin’ internet……

True…….

I wish it were a weekly draw for any return tags, say anyone who’s wants one puts their name in at the beginning then every Wednesday they draw lucky winners. You could add preference to anyone who applied in the first and second draw for the same hunt code and those with “qualified” licenses

Shawn

I like this idea. I’ve heard this proposal recently and it’s the best alternative I’ve listened to.
The thing is it will require more computing power and more labor on the part of CPW—which means it would cost more.

The old school WCO's would ride horseback into the high country to bust sheep and goat poachers. They would go undercover in the taverns at night and listen for poachers bragging about their misdeeds. They would rent aircraft time and fly into road closed areas to photograph camps with vehicles, then ride in on horseback to write them up. They were respectful and gave freely of advice and methods. I think most of those guys retired at about the same time, due to them all being hired at the same time with federal funding back in the early eighties maybe?

I suspect more illegal activities happen by road hunters than those serious enough to pack into the backcountry. Drunken thrill killers, spotlighters, trespassers, etc. Serious trophy poachers may be the exception.

As for top level CPW guys ‘catering’ to their elected officials…maybe in Colorado but I am doubtful of that too. Lots of behind the scenes disagreements and fights take place in those situations and they end up doing what they’re told or they get removed. That isn’t ‘catering’ in my mind.

True…..


Very true…..
CPW revenues are almost always part of the consideration, but the economics of Main Street businesses/outfitters carry even more weight.

You need to read the bios of all the CPW commissioners on the CPW website. Maybe two of them have anything to do or knowledge of wildlife/hunting.They have been hand picked and appointed by Polis to carry on his agenda. Of course they would not be there if they did not cater to Polis. The acting director, Heather Dugan has no back ground in wildlife, she has always been in the parks division.These are the people who have final say on what happens to Colorado's wildlife and hunting seasons

Alpinecrick. Revenues are more than a part of the consideration, they are what drives license allocation, resident/nonresident quotas, and five year big game structure.

Sorry SS, but not true. There are enough wildlife advocates in CPW who won’t let that happen. Yes, there have been times in the past when revenues were driving the decision to the detriment of the resource but it does not happen very often.

In recent times there has been more of an effort to make that top echelon of CPW people be more aware of the views at the local level. As mentioned I was in a focus group this spring and I’ll be darned in they didn’t have a couple people from Denver as facilitators. Several of us in the focus group walked in a bit skeptical and ready cross swords with the Denver folks, but I’ll be darned if they didn’t do a good job. I have to give them credit.

I am not seeing what you are and a lot of others don't either.

I attend every CPW meeting that is local. I was at the last Sportsman Caucus meeting for the SE region. A woman (Denver facilitator) from CPW got up and gave a spiel about tag allocation etc. I disagreed with her on about every point, but she would not waiver. After the meeting, both SE Caucus representatives and the acting director for the SE region came over to me after the meeting and told me I was spot on.

One of the points was reducing OTC tags and changing certain areas to draw because of fewer elk and too many hunters. Her response was they could not afford the reduction in income. They are more interested in that income than the health of the herd. It is true today as it was in the past.

Another point was CPW is still using data from 2007-2009 to establish NonResident elk tag quotas from 35% to 20% when they have data from the last draw within months. However, using that old data that 35% figure does not get cut as fast so they get to sell more NR tags which means more money. She would not comment on that.

Then there was the slide that their survey said most hunters would be OK with hunting elk every 3-4 years.The entire room of maybe 50 people jumped on that.

Also now you have the 2nd draw. CPW gets another $7 for residents and $9 for nonresidents when before they didn't by just selling leftover tags. It didn't solve the problem of the computer crashing the day the tags go on sale, because it crashed again this year. I am all for giving youth priority, but many applicants don't read that fine print that youth get 100% priority in that draw and essentially waste their money when they apply.

I remember going to a meeting several years ago before the big jump in tag prices and the qualifying licenses .The purpose of the meeting was to get public opinion on proposed changes. One of the first slides was how could CPW maximize income. Every point they put up came to fruition. They had their mind made up before any public meetings regardless of the opposition.

There might be advocates, but they sure as heck are not on the commission and those are the ones that make the decisions. These commissioners now are more interested in parks...Only two are hunters. CPW has become another bloated government bureaucracy. From frequenting different social media sites, I can say, there are a lot of hunters out there that agree with me. This entire thread reflects that also.

Much of what Colorado hunting has become is due to marketing by not only CPW, but tourism industries, gear and clothing industries, guides and outfitters, and social media. Hunters are not in it for sport and meat as much as they are in it for recognition and peer affirmation. Hence the well-moneyed Hunter-Poseurs and the relegation of the Regulatory Agency to a tax and fee collector.
They are selling tags to hunt elk that they admit can't be counted.

To my knowledge, every PP and allocation focus group this spring recommended (with the exception of the NR groups) that we go to all limited tags. Every CPW person I talked to--including the Denver crowd--were quite amenable to the idea. Indeed it has been discussed within the CPW for a couple years now as being inevitable.

We were asked to create three priorities as recommendations, and from the info I have every resident group included limited tags for elk across the board for one of their three recommendations. It was also mentioned that CPW will put this before the Commission before the 2023 seasons and regs are set. It's not set in stone by any means but chances are better than average we will see ALL limited elk tags next year.

Here's most popular recommendations from the groups in no particular priority from the last communication I received. This is not limited to elk only, other species are generally included:

-Draw for all elk licenses. This does not mean former OTC licenses will be difficult or require PPs to draw--at least until the number of applicants continue to increase.

-Preference point banking. It may be required that to use a portion of our points will require using a minimum number of points, like 3-5 points even if it normally requires less points to draw that hunt code. Another twist is point bidding: allow hunters to bid however many points they wish for a hunt code and if their bid is the best they spend those points and bank the rest. This may apply for elk only, or other species also.

-Hybrid draw set at 2007-2009. (SS, I think that's what you're referring to in your above post) We gave CPW hell for this, and it turns out this was from a bit of politicking on the part of a one wildlife commissioner for his own benefit 15+ years ago. This one is easy so expect the Hybrid Draw to be updated starting next year. Plus expand the hybrid draw to include units that meet the criteria after 2007-2009.

-Secondary draw will use preference points. The person purchasing the license will have to have the minimum number of points that the 1st draw applicants drew out at. In my opinion this will stop the computerized purchase of secondary tags by people who don't have enough preference points. This means it will take some time for CPW to sort out the applications and do the draw. Some applicants may not know if they drew or not until shortly before the earlier seasons start.

-Require that at least one point be used for all male hunt codes.

-Eliminate the preference point hunt code—hunters could only gain a point for an unsuccessful
first choice. ( I give this one a better than average chance of passing).

-Split hunt. 50% general lottery, 50% PP.

- Implement a once-in-a-lifetime draw model for high demand units.

-Cap the number of preference points someone can possess.

-100% lottery for sheep, goat, and moose. I saw the numbers/odds for moose--i knew it was getting bad but didn't realize it was this bad. It made smoke come out my ears but I had the opportunity to review the statistics and if a 40 year old has 10 weighted PP's he has about a 5% chance of ever drawing a bull moose tag. A friend of mine failed to draw a bull moose tag and he has 31 weighted points.

-100% lottery for all big game. Beginning with a 5 year period, applicants will no longer receive PP's if unsuccessful, and will have to use their PP's sometime within that 5 year period. After that will be a 100% lottery.

-Reduce the purge time for inactive hunters to lose their points.

-Return to a pay-before-you-draw big game application model.

-Require that landowner tags be used only on the landowners property, or neighboring private
land.

-Status Quo

Proposed resident vs nonresident splits:
-90% resident/10% nonresident
-80% resident/20% nonresident
-75% resident/25% nonresident
-Change current 80% resident/20% nonresident for premium units to 90%
resident/10% nonresident and 65% resident/35% nonresident for other units to
80% resident/20% nonresident
85% resident/15% nonresident with 10% random
-Eliminate NR tags from all sheep, goat, moose, and from male pronghorn hunt codes.

I just read several. I see no indication of what you say though many of them wouldn’t be my recommendations. Despite always being in the parks division Heather Dugan has a degree in wildlife biology. That isn’t to say she knows squat about the subject and may very well have been “hand picked” for an agenda but it does show you haven’t exactly done your homework either.

I stand by my thoughts that you’re responding based on preconceived notions. There are a lot of discussions and disagreements that go on behind closed doors that folks like us are not privy to. More higher ups in both state and federal agencies fight for “our” side than meets the eye, in my experience at least.

You will have every sheep org. threatening to pull all auction tags and stop leveraging project money. It got ugly here when the “hunt codes” started getting challenged.

Fight for the LO tags to the death. If “unit wide” tags ever start it is a black hole and you’ll have 2 acre “ranches” getting tags worth $15,000.

Idaho and Wyoming have the unit wide deal for landowner tags, and I know of many, many people who bought ranchettes specifically to get in on the landowner tag deal. Many are in the premier deer and elk units. It sucks but I guess I have the right to buy a postage stamp sized pasture in Sweetwater County, WY too.........God some big deer and elk come out of those units but usually for a price. I get it, it is money but it sure is frustrating.

Like anything, it started with good intentions, but morphed into something it never should have.

NMDGF issues between 2,500 and 3,000 unit wide authorizations a year, that’s on top of the ranch only authorizations.

Alpinecrick. Although the 2007-2009 applies to Hybrid draw, it also applies to all draws. See page 4 of the Big Game Brochure . Lower right corner. "Nonresident License Allocations". First paragraph.

I agree with most of the proposals, except:

Requirement of having at least one point for any male species.That cuts anyone from last year drawing for a bull. The puts it back to the hunt every 3-4 years scenario which I disagree with.

If you look at the total number of preference points for elk alone, I don't think they can all be used in a five year period. Example Unit 201 awards 25 bull tags each year. In five years that is 125 tags .There are more hunters with 20 points than that. So every one else is screwed. I can see any hunter with zero points will be out of the ball game for 5 years. Eliminating the PP hunt code will stop the future, but what happens to the thousands of hunters with points. As long as they put in for the draw each year, they are not inactive hunters. It is going to take more than five years to award tags to anyone with points no matter if it is 1-2 or 15-20. I don't have clue as to how to fix all that, but I don't think CPW does either.

I highly doubt they will eliminate all OTC tags . At most,they will put a cap on them.

Probably the best we can hope for is a split of 80% res and 20% non res. This is what other western states have I believe, and CPW will follow that. They are too worried about lawsuits if they go further.

Presently 2nd draw gives 100% priority to youths, if an adult has 3-4 points, will it stop that if points are required?

Well, there’s one bull tag available tomorrow wish me well

Shawn

I looked up the requirement for landowner tags in CO, it sounds more restrictive than other states. To get one tag, the land must be:

Be a minimum of 160 contiguous acres of private agricultural land; AND;
Be inhabited by the species being applied for in significant numbers throughout the year or in substantial numbers for shorter times; AND;
Provide for the species being applied for: wintering habitat, transitional habitat, calving areas, solitude areas, migration corridors, or provide a forage source; AND;
Have a history of game damage or a huntable population of the species being applied for; AND;
Be within a Game Management Unit (GMU) for which all rifle licenses are totally limited for the species (deer, elk, or pronghorn) being applied for.

So, you can get one tag if you have 160 contiguous acres that fit the description above. If you have between 160 and 1240 acres you can get an additional tag that's good on private land only. To get a second tag good for public land, you need to have at least 1,240 acres and for each additional tag you need an additional 600 acres per tag.

And they cap the number of landowner tags at 10% or the total. Not ideal but it solves the 2 acre ranchette problem.

I hope you guys are able to keep it limited like that.

We started out with pretty strict guidelines and like I mentioned we now have “ranchers” getting authorizations for as little as 2 acres. NM issues ~24,000 tags in the public draw and ~15,000 LO authorizations.

Well today was our lucky day! As the clock hit 11 I hit submit. Sorry, hunt code is not available, dang not again! On the tenth submit or so we struck gold! Only one reissue bull tag for our unit today and we got it.

Shawn

4 bull tags and 4 B cow tags for our unit tomorrow, after last week I am feeling lucky and I am going to try to get that girl a B cow tag

Shawn

They won't use all of their PP's if somebody continues to apply for the very high demand hunts. Either use them in 5 years period, or lose them after 5 years. It's the applicant's choice.

Personally I'm not in favor of a straight lottery. Not even sure about the split draw with 50% lottery/50% PP draw.

I'd like to hear why you are not in favor of a straight lottery? I get it that is screws those with points. Any other reasons?

My daughter went from no tags and just tagging along as a pack mule, to a bonafide mountain safari. She was lucky enough to get one of those B cow tags for our unit. She has a bear tag, bull tag and a cow tag. The reissue process worked out for her this year

Shawn

An applicant might never draw a license.

With the points system in CO, as it currently stands, there are some units a new person in the draw pool would never draw. Not a 'maybe' in sight...

There are tags in some point states that anyone without max points possibly (likely?) will never draw, at least with their current point systems. Doubly so with many areas and species having fewer and fewer tags being given out for some of the real high profile tags.

It isn’t just those getting into the points game now that have little to no chance…

I think South Dakota has the worst Game Fish and Parks Department.
Extremely short seasons. When I got a tag (only once) for my county the season was so short and deer had left my land that I didn’t fill. I had to pay extra for that one chance by being a land owner.
They Limit how many places you can apply deer tags for.
Extremely unlikely to get elk tags unless you want to use your “points” for a cow tag.
I applied for Sheep and Goat tags each year. So far no licenses. I’ve applied for bull elk in the Hills and in Custer State park almost every year I could. So far one tag and I’ve been applying ever since they were available.

The only tags I got this year were for does and half way a cross the state at that.

I applied for elk in the Hills and Elk in Custer State Park, I applied for East river deer, West River deer, pronghorn and since I applied for east and west river deer I couldn’t apply for black powder deer. I applied for black hills deer. And maybe one or two other. They take money for each of the applications but all I got was west river doe tags.

You don’t know how bad trying to hunt big game is until you live the South Dakota.

True. Well, actually it depends on how long a guy can live……

We may see a weighted system for high demand hunts same as sheep and goat. That way once somebody has 3 PP’s they are in the game.

Exactly. 'Twer I in charge, it'd be a straight lottery every year, no points of any kind. About the only restriction I can get behind is a waiting period after a successful draw.

Just wondering out loud if the proposed elk draw would follow the same protocol as deer licenses for private land hunt codes; I.e. no cap on NR licenses in the draw for PL hunt codes? This might be my last year anyway. The long drive is killing me and my clock is running out anyway.

I will second that the in the field wardens in NW Colorado are first rate. I’ve been thoroughly checked when a bull 2 miles away was shot on private - always professional. One helped me find a downed cow once too. We have had a problem with a POS lying landowner who calls them every time someone shoots an animal within 1/2 a mile of his (now marked) property line. The last time 2 years ago 2 wardens showed up checked my hunting parter then proceeded to help him drag out his buck a short way & toss it over a fence - right where the jackass landowner could see what they thought of his complaint.

More on topic a system that favors locals and kids the $ cost of tags certainly does that, gives hunters a chance to hunt prime ares before they turn 70 & draws lots of out of state hunters isn’t that easy but CO misses the mark.

Have a 50% random draw for every hunt code would keep people applying. Take away the BS small game tag requirement & we give you 3 fishing licenses & tack on a nakedly for profit $20/40 application fee to bring in money. People will apply in larger numbers, no costs to manage refunds some first timers will unfairly draw great tags.

Yes, I personally know Evan Jones who is the WCO for units 12 ,13 etc.. ( south of Craig, Hamilton) I knew him even before he became WCO. Great guy ,he goes by the book,but will help any one out.

Brandon Diamond in the Gunnison country is another one.

It is not the WCO's. It is those commissioners and PoLis who are the problem.

I am not sure what the solution is for the preference point issue. I was a CO resident for 54 years with 25 of those years spent on active duty. At the time active duty could apply for preference points at any time because they were often out of the country during the drawing period. So I always put in for points. When I retired from active duty I ended up in TX teaching NJROTC and have a lot of CO points. I am currently sitting on 26 points for elk, 19 for deer, max points including weighted points for moose, and 3 + 15 weighted points for sheep. I drew a buck pronghorn tag this year and drew a Bosque de Oso bear tag last year. I have taken both a sheep and a goat so I don't apply for those any longer. I am really wanting one of the either sex elk tags for Unit 2 and a good late season mulie tag for unit 10. Even with 26 elk points and 19 deer points I can't get either of those as a non-resident, I could draw either as a resident though.

As long as guys like me are sitting on lots of points then new hunters getting into the game will never be able to pull some tags. But guys like me played the game in accordance with the rules put forth by the state. If they suddenly told me that 26 years worth of points were going to be negated then it would really piss me off. I remember when they first started the preference point thing. Nobody, including me, ever thought that it would take 25+ points to draw a tag. I do not have a solution but no matter what they do, someone is going to get screwed somewhere.

If 26 points aren’t and won’t be enough to draw the tag you really want due to point creep or whatever other issue then they are basically telling you that your points have been negated, unless you’re willing to settle for a lesser tag.

Happened to a good friend of ours. He began applying for points when the ranching for wildlife program started. His idea was to bank points until he would be sure of drawing a really good bull tag and then do one really great elk hunt in his life. Problem was that by the time he had the 12 points the unit required it had been raised to 14. And in two years when he had 14 he found out he needed 16 and so on it went. He finally got tired of the game and called and spoke to someone at the CPW office about his issue. They recommended a unit and season that took less points to draw and he ended up having a good hunt and killing a very nice bull. But his original goal was never going to be achievable and it doesn’t sound like yours will either MAC.

So true.I finally drew Unit 201 with points 21. I figured I would never draw bull moose tag so spent my17 weighted points on a cow moose, RFW hunt and have never accumulated points since.This hybrid draw screwed a lot of people ,now with proposed changes, more will get screwed if implemented.

I wonder how many points it takes for 201 now.

Ditto’s on WCO Evan Jones. I have visited with him in unit 13 a couple of times. Very professional, courteous and friendly. We play by all the rules on the ranch where we hunt and the landowner welcomes him there. I’m sure there are a few that don’t fit that mold somewhere. He once told me that carrying a loaded or uncased firearm on an atv is never overlooked — always a citation. I have no intention of finding out…

Have never hunted Colorado since the time we were there and had to listen to four trucks on a ranch herd a bull for over two hours so a paying customer could get a shot..Radios, trucks and a few guys guarding the fence line kept that bull pretty much where the guy could be brought in for the shot...

Check my post in “general biggame “, don’t keep track of Colorado cause I don’t hunt there, but I’d be expecting some price hikes as Wyoming has now set the stage

I wonder if that’s WCO that checked us in 2016, he was cruising along saw my truck stopped backed up. He got out and said Alaska?? Lol real nice guy checked our license etc. told him we had deer tags as well. Told us if you had antelope tags he knew plenty of landowners let us hunt their property. But deer and elk not so much, again great interaction with all WCO’s I encountered. 99% of the time it was my license plate lol..

Well I drew Bull Moose tag with 11 points. Buddy with 21 points was pissed, but he drew same tag following year. Muzzleloader and Archery, respectively. Best hunt ever, shame it has to be once-in-a-lifetime.

Big game draw tags should go to a silent auction system. Any leftovers tags go to a draw system.

silent auction as in.... he who has the most money wins? Yeah, don't care for that idea. Hunting is becoming a rich mans sport fast enough without that idea catching on.

Dumbest idea I ever heard. No average guy would ever have a shot a good tag and there would be no leftover tags because someone would always be willing to pony up $200 for a tag.

A few years ago I got interested in doing a bucket list hunt in Colorado. After going through the most confusing sets of protocols, i.e., points and draws, I just gave up.

Or more... outfits would buy them all and charge ridiculous to hunt.

So there’s six bull tags and one cow tag available on the reissue list for our unit tomorrow. Hmm I am eligible for the B cow tag.. better not I spent a ton on tags so far this year. Don’t know how many normally get turned in but seems like a bunch so far. Might have been a good year if you wanted to get a hard to draw unit on the reissue list.

Shawn

So there we were, complaining about lack of tags and now swimming in them! LOL