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Originally Posted by mathman
Originally Posted by hanco
I load 46 grains of Varget with a 150 partition for my Garand. They are easier on the shoulder in a bolt gun than a max load of IMR 4350.

That should be pretty mild. Have you clocked it?

I loaded some 150s with 46 grains of one of the 4895s and it was very easy shooting.


I have not

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Originally Posted by DoubleRadius
Quote
… Or a little gym time to build up some extra neck and shoulder strength most likely will make a difference.

You did note that the OP is almost 80 years old, right? “A little gym time” most likely won’t fix his issue! crazy

.

Yes, I did… will be 79 in February. Just left the gym….bench press, inclined BP, curls, overhead press, 30 min treadmill.

There was a shrimp guy there in his 70’s that was squatting more than he weighed….210 pounds on the bar. I doubt he went 160 himself.

Ya crazy…what a little gym time can do.

Those who never try, will never know where they can go. Of course you know what others are capable of based on age.

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Even just doing push-ups everyday will help significantly. Start on the knees doing 10 per morning, then when that is easy do 10 on the toes. Gradually build up each week or second week until you can do 30. Use 43 grain H4895 with 150's for around 2600 fps in the 30-06 in a 22" barrel (300 Savage velocities).

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I transitioned my dad away from the 30-06 and into a 7mm-08 when recoil got too much for him. Didn’t sell the -06, of course. He still killed elk and deer just fine with the Mighty -08.




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Thanks to all for the info & suggestions. I'm not giving up on it. I've had this rifle for around thirty years and it's been my favorite since I cut the barrel down to 22" and put it in a Bansner stock. It's always held zero and shot well, different loads, clean or dirty, hot or cold.

I'm going to hold off trying the 110s and Tac unless nothing else works. I'll start by reducing the 4895 and 4064 loads down to 48 grains. If that doesn't work out I'll try taking the 4895 down a little further.

As far as building up my shoulder and neck muscles, unfortunately they're probably as good as they're going to get. I've been hitting the weights three times a week for a lot of years. At this age I'm just trying to maintain "strength" LOL without injury.

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Keep at it!!!👍🏻


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Nobody has mentioned it so I will, experience with stout recoiling rifles has taught me to use a recoil shield like a Magnum.Past for zeroing or load work up. Get right down to really reducing your discomfort take some extra strength tylenol or Aleve a half hour before you shoot. It does help. Try them. ..mb


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Originally Posted by Magnum_Bob
Nobody has mentioned it so I will, experience with stout recoiling rifles has taught me to use a recoil shield like a Magnum.Past for zeroing or load work up. Get right down to really reducing your discomfort take some extra strength tylenol or Aleve a half hour before you shoot. It does help. Try them. ..mb

I have used a Recoil Shield myself for years now. Shooting steel butt plated M70's, hard rubber Marlin 444 and 45-70's, and similar make shooting way more fun. Takes a few seconds to slip it on and off. I have a 1/2" one that seems to grip just about any butt real well and allows me to shoot about anything as much as my retinas can stand.


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Buy the $2 flip flops at Walmart. Cut the thong off and slide one between your shoulder and the gun at the bench. Tames it wayyy down without adding much to the length of pull.

And yes, down loading is an easy way to help yourself too. My deer at 150 yards folded right up from a .270 with a 130 grain speer at 2600.

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For modest reductions in power found best accuracy sticking with the same slower powders used for max loads in .30s and up. Reduced charges of IMR-4831 in '06 and even the .375R. For a given velocity target invariably get better accuracy than with 4064, 4895, 3031. Forget about H-380, 748, etc.

Rarely, if the ES seems large, a hotter primer might help.

Physics sez a larger powder charge must generate more recoil, all else equal. But that isn't the elephant in the room.

2400 fps MV with cup/core 180 gr '06 or 270 gr .375 works. About like .300 Sav and .35 Whelen.

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All well and good, but be damned careful messing with reduced loads in larger capacity cases with slow burning powders. You won't be the first guy to wreck a gun with that trick. There's a reason why Hodgdon only recommends 4895 for this kind of work. Read Barsness' writings on the matter for an in-depth analysis.

With the exception of my above mentioned '06 load, all of my reduced loads for medium/large-ish capacity cases live in the 1600-2000fps range and are accomplished with faster burning powders such as 2400, 4227, RL-7, etc. Cost savings are substantial and accuracy is there. It all adds up to more shooting, and besides, a bullet only has to be traveling fast enough to pierce the paper target (and there is absolutely no need to beat yourself up with a day of shooting even if you're a he-man who "loves" heavy recoil). When hunting season rolls around, up the game to whatever power level suits your needs.


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Originally Posted by mathman
I loaded some 150s with 46 grains of one of the 4895s and it was very easy shooting.

That's the same load I use in my Mannlicher-Schoenauer Stutzen which gives 2528 fps. Easy on the shoulder, groups less than 1 1/2", and ample for deer in my woods. What's not to like?


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For most of my hunting purposes a full power 300 Savage is plenty. I can soft pedal the 30-06 and still have plenty of juice.


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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
...be damned careful messing with reduced loads in larger capacity cases with slow burning powders. You won't be the first guy to wreck a gun with that trick.

I thought that was a surplus data powder burn rate (and slower) thing?

Also, am not chasing the 60% H4895 floor. More like at or just below recommended starting charges. In my .300s looking for 2800 fps with 180s, 2400 fps for the other two mentioned.

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Originally Posted by Sam_H
Originally Posted by gnoahhh
...be damned careful messing with reduced loads in larger capacity cases with slow burning powders. You won't be the first guy to wreck a gun with that trick.

I thought that was a surplus data powder burn rate (and slower) thing?

Also, am not chasing the 60% H4895 floor. More like at or just below recommended starting charges. In my .300s looking for 2800 fps with 180s, 2400 fps for the other two mentioned.
Not necessarily. IIRC the theory is that in a case that is only half full, instead of the slow burning powder burning from the flash hole forward, the primer flame shoots over the powder charge and ignites it all at once, causing tremendous pressure.


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I don't change a load that is working as long as I can get the same components. If I'm having trouble shooting it I might add a Limbsaver slip on pad . If that don't take care of the issue I'll shoot a cartridge that already has less recoil or one with a stock design that distributes the recoil of the larger cartridges mo'betta. Good example is 200-220 grain loads in a Krag , I sold my original when I got to the point that those loads were too much for my neck and shoulders to handle. A few years later my dad died and I took possession of his guns. One was a Krag that my great uncle built for him before I was born. He took a Krag barreled action and put it in a Bishop mid grade stock that was actually designed for something besides the Krag. I had a bunch of the 220 grain loads left so decided to try them in his rifle . The difference in the original and the Bishop stocked rifle was night and day . The 220's in it were more like a 170-180 grain '06 load and while not as easy shooting as my 6.5's were absolutely manageable with the hard rubber plate that was on the stock.


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Originally Posted by Blacktailer
Not necessarily. IIRC the theory is that in a case that is only half full, instead of the slow burning powder burning from the flash hole forward, the primer flame shoots over the powder charge and ignites it all at once, causing tremendous pressure.

OK, thanks. My reduced stuff has nowhere near that amount of air space.

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For reduced loads use cast bullet data and use jacketed bullets if you want. 308 30-06 I use 24 grains 2400 and Speer 130 grn HP bullets. Knocks whitetails down out to 100 yds. Plus you can shoot these all day long. For reduced loads IMR & H4198 work just fine. 5744 is another choice for reduced loads.

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LV Hunter, have you ever chronoed the 24 grs. 2400/130 Speer load?


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I think it was in the 2000 to 2200 range. The speer HP at that speed acts like a SP bullet. The deer that were shot in the rib cage didn't go anywhere. If you shoot that bullet at 3000 + it will explode!

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