Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

SLGPT I use Imperial Die Wax on just about everything including loading for double rifles. Never a problem. Use graphite inside, wax outside.

Sorry to hear you are stuck with One Shot.

Sir Roo,

I think I have tried it all.
I save the sizing wax and graphite for fussy and tricky
low-volume or special-purpose jobs.

You hear a lot of belly aching about finger-rolling
cartridges on a lube pad.
Once I discovered there is a difference
between lube pads, I quit belly aching.
Hornady and RCBS pads are awful.

Lyman Case Lube Pad
Item No. 7631302
is tops.

Load that pad with RCBS Case Lube-2
and that is as good as it gets.

Water soluble lube.
Easy cleanup by washing or tumbling.

The simple Lyman pad and RCBS Case Lube-2
works for bullet sizing too, cup & core, copper and brass or copper monometals.

Sir Roo,
In those bullet weights,
H4895 is a versatile powder,
for either reduced loads down to 60% of max (with or without filler)
or for 110% compressed loads with the .458 WM+ and 400-grainer.

Ditto.
I still have not done a thing with my Remington Spartan/Baikal
Slumlord Double Rifle in .45-70 Govt.
Thinking those brass 400-gr CEB FN
gifted by Sir Jerry could backup my
409-gr hardcast,
or just go with the Sir Saint Bagwell PH
475-grainer.
I just need to keep them down to 28,000 CUP/PSI.

So many toys, so
little time.

I should have 125 Norma 458 Winn mag cases in hand by Friday. I'll be getting down to business then and see how much speed I can't get at magazine length in my MarkX 458 Win

I used the Lee lube on this run, just to try it out as I have had no experience with it. Came with the die set. One nice thing about Lee Dies is that if you do get stuck, it only takes a few seconds to get unstuck, so in this case, all I lost was brass and some confidence, lol. I have used Imperial for much loading over the years and will likely try it on these again.

Thank you Sir Ron, I will look into the RCBS case lube in conjunction with the Lyman pad. Do you lube the inside of the mouth at all?

Are you guys thinking that the only reason I got stuck was inferior lube? I hope that's the case. Can't think what else it could be, but I also figured the lee lube would work well. Guess not.

Sir Ron,

I got my .375 ejector and the replacement .458 magazine. Popped out the spacer and good to go with 3.6" rounds in the magazine. My question is...do I also need a shorter bolt stop like this one?

https://www.midwestgunworks.com/page/mgwi/prod/U350900160

The current factory bolt stop has an "H" on it.

I think I have a line on a pound of 4895 and some RL15 to try. Hopefully between those two and my Varget and AA2015, I will find some happy loads. Also have some .460 405 grain lead on the way and will see how fast I can push the PC bullets. Thanks again for all the help!

Gunner,
I LabRadar'd 2 rounds with the 350gr North Fork Expanding CPS at 2826 & 2822 FPS from the longer brass / shorter throat 458 type today.
380 Lehigh Copper Flat Point = 2735 & 2735 fps from the same brethren.
Accurate 2460 Powder.

I just had a disturbing thought, is shooting 458WM out of a Lott barrel causing the brass to stretch abnormally? I will have to measure the fired brass and see how long it is.

Well, I fixed the stuck case issue. Switching back to Imperial made a huge difference. I will not be using the Lee lube again. I did order the stuff Sir Ron recommended, as I don't want to be quite as slow as the imperial requires.

Also, I measured my cases out of the gun, and then again after sizing. After firing, the cases were all right around 2.490. After resizing, they were all around 2.510. Does that sound normal? Trimming them after sizing to get them down to 2.490 took a bit of time, lol.

Sir Bevan,

Yes, that should do the trick.
I was pretty sloppy in saying ejector/boltstop needs to be shortened.
That is two parts, ejctor and bolt stop.
Three parts needing alteration if mag box is included.

Doggonnit, since I have caused so much aggravation here,
I am going to order parts for two conversions of the FN/SC M70.
I have run out of M70 Classics for conversion and am stuck with the FN/SC models.

The Super Grade .458 WinMag will be done for sure.
Then, either an All Weather .338 WinMag,
or a .30-06, the latter also requiring bolt face opening up.

Two will get the treatment to part switching:
1. Longer mag box, not blocked at back.
2. Shorter-length fixed ejector blade so cartridge is ejected at longer retraction backward.
3. Shorter-length breech bolt stop so bolt can be retracted farther backward to expose that fixed ejector.
The .338 WinMag or .30-06 may also get re-barreled to .458 WinMag,
after the M98 gets its Pac-Nor barrel.
So many toys, so little time.

Sir John,

Great. We shall record results for posterity.
The more verifications of the might of the .458 WinMag, the better to counter Lottite propaganda.
Just using Norma brass is like turning a 3.340" actual COL into a 3.440" effective COL.
etc.

I don't inside-lube neck on .458 WM.
What pad were you using to apply the lube?

Sir Roo,
The case mouth of the .458 WM fired in a .458 Lott chamber will be stretched a little wider than when fired in its proper chamber. Might result in longer cases after re-size.
The .458 Lott is bad ju-ju for more reasons than one.

Sir Ron, I think you are correct on the chamber/brass issue (no surprise there). I will have to see about changing to a WM chamber, but that might take some doing. In the meantime, my Mark X will be here next week and I can start using a real WM and see how it goes.

I was just using my fingers with the Lee lube, as well as the Imperial. I have been told to lube the inside neck of the 458's, so I did. Redding just says to rub your Imperial finger over the mouth and that will be enough. Lee says to use a cotton swab and apply it to the inside. I followed both directions, Redding won.

But you would agree that .020 is too much trimming, especially on the first firing of factory ammo?

.458 brass grows when fired and resized like any other caliber. If the chamber is tight and die is a close match, doesn’t grow much. Chamber sloppy and die is something else, it grows. Remember the the Rcbs X die? It attempted to hold the length static while resizing. It disappeared so the market said it didn’t work. I never used one. The idea had merit though.
As a side note, you maybe are trimming needlessly. Certainly are in a Lott chamber but many 458wm will accept brass longer than spec.

Norma cases, fed 215 primer, 81 grains AA2230, 404 Shock Hammer averaged 2422 FPS. COAL 3.3665" which just fits the magazine of the MarkX Mauser action

79 grains AA2230 behind the 450 TSX gave 2388 FPS

That is certainly a good point on not needing to trim for the Lott chamber. My thought was to just use WM spec ammo in all guns. Not only for compatibility in different guns, but also to avoid having to trim to different lengths, adjust seating dies and crimp...Also, after this first firing, maybe it won't grow as much, who knows?

I will hopefully get some velocity data on these loads later today, or tomorrow, as well as measuring (as well as I can) the throat of the Lott.