24hourcampfire.com
24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 6 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,611
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 38,611
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Yeah. Something small, light, fast, and deadly.

Something that you can maintain with a Leatherman, fuel with farm diesel, and pass off as an agricultural aircraft.

Sounds terrible.

Knew a chick like that once...


Me



BP-B2

Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,736
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 5,736
If the military where to load the duster up with fentanyl and dust an area 25 or 30 miles below the U.S. border it sure would slow down the influx of people crossing the border?


"Whensoever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force." --Thomas Jefferson

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,086
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,086
If Sharpsman were at all sharp, he'd realize that these aircraft only start life as a crop sprayer. They won't be anything like that when the SpecOps guys get them. And they won't be flown at all like he did. I have 300 missions and close to 1,000 hours in actual Special Ops combat flying getting my ass shot at. Let me know when YOU can speak with authority.


Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,489
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,489
Authority and experience, here? The problem is not that they’re ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn’t so.


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 59,544
J
Campfire Kahuna
Online Happy
Campfire Kahuna
J
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 59,544
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Authority and experience, here? The problem is not that they’re ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn’t so.

Hahaha!

So you two agree again?


I am MAGA.
IC B2

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,002
R
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
R
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,002
Oh......
I was thinking they was gonna tea bag all of us with them.
Night Op schit and spray red state area,s with magic dust and turn us all into Liberal Socialist Democrats while sleeping..



🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,489
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 42,489
Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Originally Posted by jorgeI
Authority and experience, here? The problem is not that they’re ignorant; it's just that they know so much that isn’t so.

Hahaha!

So you two agree again?

No really, but if you are referring to people that post opinions, clearly demonstrating their ignorance or lack of experience on the subject, then yes..


A good principle to guide me through life: “This is all I have come to expect, standard lackluster performance. Trust nothing, believe no one and realize it will only get worse…”
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,086
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,086
Jorge and I may differ a bit on some issues, but we highly respect and value each other's knowledge - which are based on real life experience.

See those thumbnail photos under our names? We did that.


Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 59,544
J
Campfire Kahuna
Online Happy
Campfire Kahuna
J
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 59,544
I thought maybe it was tongue in cheek.

Maybe not.

Those guys certainly have a lot of hours.


I am MAGA.
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 59,544
J
Campfire Kahuna
Online Happy
Campfire Kahuna
J
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 59,544
Originally Posted by RockyRaab
See those thumbnail photos under our names? We did that.

So which one of you is wrong?


I am MAGA.
IC B3

Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,086
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,086
Neither of us. Jorge is opining based on his Navy life, and I on my USAF one. He doesn't see a need for this specialized plane, and I do. That doesn't make either of us wrong.


Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

Joined: May 2016
Posts: 59,544
J
Campfire Kahuna
Online Happy
Campfire Kahuna
J
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 59,544
Yeah...but that only works in the Federal govt.


I am MAGA.
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,002
R
Campfire 'Bwana
Offline
Campfire 'Bwana
R
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 45,002
Low level slow moving planes decked the fugg out with wpn systems have a legit use.
Ground support.
Tgt desigination.
Night time ops.
Ect ect ect.

Small plane popping up over a tree line or terrian feature seemingly outta nowhere when needed and its ability to engage at extremely short or far range.
Or a small terrian hugging plane equipped with modern avionics, wpns, and a skilled pilot could raise havoc on schit
Staying below radar at 50 to 100 ft on its approach and departure.
Can you imagine what one that just had a mini gun on it could do.

A crop duster kinda fits the bill.

Last edited by renegade50; 08/06/22.
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 59,544
J
Campfire Kahuna
Online Happy
Campfire Kahuna
J
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 59,544
Sure seems to don't it?


I am MAGA.
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,372
Campfire Tracker
Online Content
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 4,372
US drug trafficking from Mexico.


~Molɔ̀ːn Labé Skýla~
As Bob Hagel would say"You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong."Good words of wisdom...............
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,581
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,581
All the talk is how this is a down in the weeds aircraft, popping up the see or to shoot. And I agree that's how I would likely plan to use it if I had one.
But
It's got a 25,000 ft service ceiling and a rock star optical and electronic sensor suite.

There aint' no shoulder fired SA missile gonna hit it at half that altitude. I'd be curious to see what it sounds and looks like over quiet desert at night at different altitudes.

Can anybody here rightfully tell what a turbo powered small aircraft like this sounds like at different altitudes? Rocky? Jorge? Load Clear?

And a perceived advantage over a UCAV...

You've got your Weapons/Sensors guy on the scopes keeping an eye on the actual mission location, along with everyone he's connected to across the globe. Then you've got the aircraft pilot, orbiting the mission, with his head up and alert for light flashes, reflections, motion, or anything that might signal a change in the tactical situation as it affects the mission ground element.
I would posit that a wary pilots eyes and brain make up the "ultimate sensor" to keep a mission like this aircraft is intended for on track.

Theoretically, you can and might have the cameras on your UCAV to "see" any and all of this. But do you have a dedicated tech crew member to wear the 3D headgear and keep that kind of overwatch? If so, how effective is he without a pilots "right there" perspective?
I'm sure that I don't know everything about drone warfare, but I'd bet money that the pilot with actual eyes over a mission would prevail


"Chances Will Be Taken"


Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,086
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,086
John, we have a turboprop sky-diving plane that operates from our nearby airport. It is clearly audible even when it's at drop altitude which I'd guess is some 15,000' AGL. But that aircraft is always at max power and climbing until immediately before the jump, so it's certainly louder than it would be with the power and the prop in cruise.


Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,581
Campfire Ranger
Offline
Campfire Ranger
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 15,581
If you were going to pick an altitude to use as mission overwatch, and no one is shooting at you, what would you choose?


"Chances Will Be Taken"


Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,086
Campfire 'Bwana
Online Content
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 31,086
I can't honestly answer that, John. Tactics are so different now that I'd be guessing. Remember, my sensors were the Mk-1 eyeball.

When I was flying "radio watch" to support a covert ground team, I orbited a few miles from their location at 5,000' AGL. That put me out of all gun ranges up to .50 cal. Doing so eliminated all but the grossest visual targets, but those weren't visual recce missions. I was there only to receive scheduled reports or respond if the team went hot.

The rules said we should be at no less than 1,500' AGL to do visual recce, as that kept us mostly safe from .30-cal stuff. We kinda followed that rule - usually. We did team inserts flying at anywhere from five to 50 feet above the terrain or trees, and at only 90 knots so we wouldn't outrace the helos behind us. Over any kind of trees, that was the safest possible altitude because we were over and past them in a flash, giving them no time to shoot. Anywhere at all, 500' was the suicide zone - they had time to see, track and shoot, and little lead was required to connect with us.


Cleverly disguised as a responsible adult.

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,679
I
Campfire Ranger
Online Happy
Campfire Ranger
I
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 25,679
Interesting perspectives from the pilots, and from the guy who has been boots on the ground needing the pilots.

How noisy is an Ag Tractor turbine? I had one making tree top level passes over my head last night for about twenty minutes. I just stood in the door of the garage and watched the show. Yes, at fifty feet, they are loud as hell, quite audible at a mile away as he turned to come back and make another pass.

My work location is about 3/4 mile from an ag landing strip. I hear the tires bark every time a crop duster hits the runway. And I hear the roar shortly thereafter which I assume is a feathered prop. But I am a bit ignorant of the mechanics involved and can only assume.

The "dusters" often pass overhead at work. Sometimes you can wave at the pilot, and he will wave back. Sometimes they are high enough that you can not discern the pilot (1500'?). But they are always audible inside the building.

I really have no idea how high they would have to orbit to remain undetectable from the ground. Of course, the planes I see (and hear) are tuned for power. Perhaps the manufacturer has some tricks to make them quiet for military missions?


People who choose to brew up their own storms bitch loudest about the rain.
Page 6 of 8 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

Moderated by  RickBin 

Link Copied to Clipboard
YB23

Who's Online Now
695 members (12344mag, 10Glocks, 10gaugemag, 160user, 1Akshooter, 1beaver_shooter, 71 invisible), 3,013 guests, and 1,415 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums81
Topics1,187,680
Posts18,399,622
Members73,817
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023


 







Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2024 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.117s Queries: 15 (0.007s) Memory: 0.9080 MB (Peak: 1.0559 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2024-03-28 21:43:39 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS