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A follow up on an early post regarding a 1904 Winchester 1886 in 33 WCF that I acquired earlier this year. I thought it was more relevant here than in the reloading forum. I purchased a MVA rear tang sight and combo front sight (.045), cleaned the barrel well (it is pitted) and purchased dies, bullets and cases (Quality Brass). Bullets were the Hornady 200 gr FTX and the Hawke 200 FP. I put together dummy cases with old brass and with the new brass and quickly determined that the new brass would not feed from the magazine into the chamber, but the old brass would, and the Quality brass would chamber just fine - just not from the magazine. I tPMed several members (Gunner 500 and 450Fuller) and they were very helpful with suggestions.

I started out with 36 grains of IMR 3031 in the Quality brass with both the Hawke (1779 fps) and the Hornady (1785 fps) bullet. Then I went to an old Remington brass with the FTX and the same powder charge and it gave 1865 fps. I did test an 80 year old Remington 200 gr SP and it clocked at 1883 fps. The Quality brass weighed 196 gr. and the Remington brass weighed 180 gr.

My Quality brass issues was solved by fireforming them. They had a noticeably different shoulder angle and location before firing but that was resolved by firing.

I introduced H4895 into the shooting mix and ended up choosing that powder. At the end of the process I stopped at 44 grains of H4895 with both bullets. The Hornady bullets averaged 2275 fps and the Hawke bullets average 2130 fps). The Hornady bullets impacted about 7" higher than the Hawkes. I could manage 4" groups at 100yds, but will probably limit my shot selection for game to 50 yd. Part of that is due to my cataracts that aren't bad enough to have fixed, but do distort the sight picture through the rear aperture.

I like the Hawk bullets the best. But I didn't have anything but cast flatpoint bullets loaded when I killed a whitetail buck. I had to shoot him two extra times because he was going to cross a fence where I couldn't go. He figured out he was dead then. I had to reform brass when I loaded. I think 4895 was my powder. I love the 86. On mine the screw holding the front of the magazine tube had to be loose or your groups would open up seriously. My son borrowed the gun and couldn't get useable groups. Brought the gun back to me and a year later I remembered to look and the screw had been tightened. Check to see if that could help your groups. I also have cataracts of a low grade and it messes up my night vision a bit. I didn't like the way my tang sight ate my hand up as I carried the gun in the brush. I took it off temporarily. I hope you enjoy the 33 WCF. Be Well, RZ.

Hawk bullets in the 33 WCF are hard to beat . I have used IMR4895 and H- 4198 with success. 2000-2100 FPS
will do wonders in the 33 I have a full magazine and half magazine 1886.
The FM rifle has a Lyman 21 climbing receiver sight that works well. Hornady bullets also hold together pretty well.
You are wise to remove the tang sight, as 99% of the animals hunted will not require long range shooting.

I have to look. But I'm thinking the load was 235 gr with 4895. I don't remember which one. I may have the load on the boxes. I usually put a load sticker on each box of loads. Be Well, RZ.

I have been deer hunting with the other half magazine takedown 1886. Managed to anchor a pretty good white tail buck
at 30 yards. This TD rifle in 33 WCF is reasonably accurate. This rifle had a Lyman No 1 tang sight that was removed and stored also.
The Lyman 21 or another aperture sight works well. This rifle came with a Marbles 95 fold down sight that
is infintely better than the original Winchester buckhorn version.

Annealing helps on the valuable 33 brass in the neck area. Hawk bullets are almost perfect in the 33 due to their 2100-2300 FPS
muzzle velocity. Their performance on game is excellent. For elk or moose -a 210 gr Nosler for first shot works pretty well.
The 33 will take moose, bear or elk-it did it in the 30s and earlier.
Ben Lilly carried an 1886 in 33 WCF for years in NM and Arizona after lion and grizzly.

Just Had cataract surgery and the vision difference is amazing.

When Hornady quit making the 200 grain FN for the 33 Win, I came across a huge batch of them for sale at a gun store in Coeur d'Alene Idaho, for like $10 a box...

I bought 10 boxes... out of the 200 or 300 they had on the shelf...

Never found an old 33 Win to purchase, but I did find a load of 35 grains of SR 4759, with those 200 gr FN, would chronograph at 2400 fps, and duplicate the old 33 Win factory specs, out of my bolt action 338/06....the recoil seemed pretty mild....I took several game animals with that load...and liked its performance...

the 1886 Win never came my way, but I sure liked the performance of the Model 70 in 338/06 substitute...

I like hunting with stuff that duplicates what our grandfathers hunted with.... if it worked then, it still does the job now...

I haven't applied testosterone to my hunting needs for decades....

Even my Browning A Bolt, in 300 Win Mag with a 26 inch barrel, becomes a fun 30/30 duplicate, with less recoil, when loaded with 22 grains of Unique, with a 150 grain FN or Ballistic Tip, and is more than enough at 200 to 250 yds or so..... got that out of a cast bullet Lyman Manual....

oh, and I am distantly related to Ben Lilly mentioned above in Fuller's thread... that and a quarter will get you a cup of coffee anywhere its sold for a quarter..

In my auction travels I made an impulse buy on an 1886 in .33WCF. Got the gun home and discovered it had been rebarreled and someone had put barrel band just behind the front sight. Mechanically sound and the rifling is nearly brand new. It has the full magazine and curved buttplate.

After scratching my head a bit I decided I would jump into a handloading project for this old rifle. What a search! I found everything except brass within a few days and ordered it all online. I bought 100 Starline 45-70 cases and tried forming a case in one step- nope! Then I realized this would be a multi- die process. After some measuring and comparing, I removed the expander from a 7.62x54R die, installed a .375 Whelen resizing die about an inch off the ram, then screwed the .33 die in place on my turret press. After I verified all this would work, I annealed the whole lot of cases and went to work. I made up a dummy cartridge with my bullet of choice: a NOE 204 gr Flap Point Gas Check cast number. I have not yet cast enough bullets, nor have I gas check and lubed them. Once I have that done, I am thinking of a fireforming load of 38 grains of H4895. The cases currently look a bit funny with that step just in front of the base, so they really need that fireform step, along with final trim.

More to follow....

When I had a 33 WCF, I tried forming cases for 45-70 and guickly devided to buy them alrady formed from Buffalo Arms.

Great idea, except Buffalo Arms was at 0 quantity.

I bought cases from Starline that were a step or two closer to being formed, maybe in 40 cal. It took two steps from there to get the 33 case up and running. I love the gun but it needs quite a few little things and one or two small things fixed. NO it is NOT FOR SALE! I just like the old girl for some reason. Kinda like my bride of 50 years. Be safe and Be Well, RZ.

For case forming, try 40-65 W-W brass or Starline.
Hornady has discontinued their 33 -200 gr FP bullet. The Nosler 210 gr is great FOR THE 1st Shot ONLY-in tubular magazines.
Hawk bullets really are excellent in the 33 WCF. Perfect for 2000 FPS velocities.

Additional updates:
The Jan 1977 issue of Handloader magazine features a 33 WCF article that is first rate.
The author found a very accurate load for jacketed Hornady 200 gr flat pt bullets with H-4831 powder.
It was the most accurate load he found. W-W 40-65 s are the excellent method of case forming, saving a step.

The bullet news is not encouraging for the 33 WCF: Buffalo Arms has their 200 gr FP jacketed bullet out-of-stock indefinitely/not sure as to continuance. I recommend Hawk bullets in the 200 gr FP.
Many hunters are resorting to other 200-210 gr bullets.

I saw a very nice win 1886 takedown, in 33 cal. Yesterday at a gun show, going to see it again next weekend, at another show. Hard to get brass and bullets probably will stop me from buying!

Come on now, everybody needs at least one gun that you have to work at to keep it running. That's half the fun. It's like an Easter egg hunt with better eggs.

I found that my 1886 in 33 cal. has a bit more headspace than it should. I found that with case head separation on my 3 rd firing of brass. I did a chamber cast and am now looking for someone to make some custom brass. I've tried Rocky Mountain Cartridge but they must be out of business as they have not responded to calls and emails. I'm planning to now contact Roberson Cartridge Company. Absent finding a custom maker, I'll just do a one (maybe 2) and done on the Quality Brass.

Have you tried setting the shoulder out farther? Usually the cause

Takedown rifles invite headspace issues. They also weigh a half pound more. The 1886 33's I have range from full magazine 1903 to a 1915 solid frame
half-magazine. The 1/2 magazine 1886 has been with me since 1986 at a Tucson gun show.
Unless you luck into the Hornady FP 200s, you will be strapped for bullets. Hawk Bullets in New Jersey are the best out there. IMHO.

ANNEALING. Annealing 40-65 Starline brass is the way to go for the 33 WCF case.
Too much working of the brass requires it. All you need is a few candles and gloves-OR-
a wire through the primer hole. Price of brass and work to reform makes it almost mandatory.
Quality Cartridge in Maryland for those who do not reload. The 40-65 allows easy reforming with 33 WCF dies.
Easier than 45-70. For closer range, IMR or H-4198 works well in the 33, along with 4895 and 3031. H-4831 is VERY accurate, however.
Stick to 200 grain bullets. A Nosler 210 gr Partition bullet works on elk and you can use 2 loaded cartridges loaded, IF one is in the chamber.

Got a question about the COL on the 33 Win. The only manual I have is the Hornady sixth edition and it says max COL is 2.690 with the Hornady 200 gr flat points, If I load them to 2.690 the cannelure is just below the rim of the case. Is this going to be a problem. Cases are trimmed per the manual to 2.095.

What is the going rate on Hornady 200 gr flat nose bullets ? Allways see a few at gunshows...mb

Last box I bought was $75.