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I've been shooting loads with 4198, RL 7 and 3031 for years now... plenty good out to 200 yds plus... depending on your zero.
We're talking 06s here...

have said for years in my old age wisdom, why does one need a 500 yd, elk load to drop a 110 pound black tail at 200 yds or less?

I can still shoot full power 06 loads with no problem.... but what for? it doesn't kill deer any faster than the same caliber with slower velocity.
plus it makes shot placement easier....a slow bullet in the right spot is better than a fast bullet in the wrong spot.

in 30 cal, a ballistic tip or a 30-30 style bullet are my first choices....a 150 gr FN is actually a pretty decent slayer at 2400 fps or so...
has worked for kids I've loaded for, right out to 200 yds or more...

I sure do miss SR 4759 a lot for these types of applications....

Hodgdon quit making it due to it not being as glittzy as other 'more modern' powders....

its beauty was that IT WORKED! but consumers think they need something greater, faster and with more power than what worked last season...

The 30 pounds or so of SR 4759 I still have on hand will last me thru my last deer season, when ever that may be.


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I don't back them off as far as you, but my 30-06 cruising along at crisp 300 Savage level is plenty for what I'm doing.


"In the real world, think of the 6.5 Creedmoor as the modernized/standardized/optimized version of the 6.5x55/.260." John Barsness 2019
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Originally Posted by blairvt
I have one of those past pads I use at the bench. Makes a difference

I have one as well and find it very useful for some rifles.

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Originally Posted by Seafire
I've been shooting loads with 4198, RL 7 and 3031 for years now... plenty good out to 200 yds plus... depending on your zero.
We're talking 06s here...

have said for years in my old age wisdom, why does one need a 500 yd, elk load to drop a 110 pound black tail at 200 yds or less?

I can still shoot full power 06 loads with no problem.... but what for? it doesn't kill deer any faster than the same caliber with slower velocity.
plus it makes shot placement easier....a slow bullet in the right spot is better than a fast bullet in the wrong spot.

in 30 cal, a ballistic tip or a 30-30 style bullet are my first choices....a 150 gr FN is actually a pretty decent slayer at 2400 fps or so...
has worked for kids I've loaded for, right out to 200 yds or more...

I sure do miss SR 4759 a lot for these types of applications....

Hodgdon quit making it due to it not being as glittzy as other 'more modern' powders....

its beauty was that IT WORKED! but consumers think they need something greater, faster and with more power than what worked last season...

The 30 pounds or so of SR 4759 I still have on hand will last me thru my last deer season, when ever that may be.

Ditto on your observations re: 4759. If that stuff were still available all discussions regarding reduced '06 loads would begin and end right there. I too have a pretty significant stash of the stuff for '06, .30-40, and .30-30 reduced loadings (mainly with cast bullets though) - not as much as you, but close.

An analogy can be drawn between reduced loads in the '06 and owning/driving a Ferrari: you wouldn't drive the car at its top speed everywhere you go, rather 99% of your wheel time would be at "normal" slow speeds. In 50+ years of messing with this stuff I never understood the attitude a lot of guys have toward pushing the envelope upwards and every single shot they fire being the max they can get away with. Is it a macho/ego thing or what?

I'm drawn to extreme flexibility in my chamberings/loadings. In that instance the .30-06 is a champion, being wonderful for mouse fart loads to bear whackers, and everything in between.


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GNOAHHH said, "Ditto on your observations re: 4759. If that stuff were still available all discussions regarding reduced '06 loads would begin and end right there. I too have a pretty significant stash of the stuff for '06, .30-40, and .30-30 reduced loadings (mainly with cast bullets though) - not as much as you, but close."

Dunno if you've taken a look at 5744. I've done a little work with it and the 220 gr. Lyman #311284. Just a few day at a load in the middle of the Data in the Lyman Manual # 50. Rifle was a Browning B78 in the good old 30-06. You might want to take a look at that for some milder 06 loads. Accuracy was decent for a first go at using that powder. Only have one can of #4759 so I'm saving it for later use.
PJ


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I used to shoot the 350 Rem Mag in a 600 action quite a bit. I sold it now I still have a 350 Rem Mag in a 700 Classic & a 35 Whelen in a BDL. I can still shoot that level of recoil ok. But I’m tending to lighter bullets than the 250 grain Partitions that I used to prefer - 225’s are nicer to me.
This year, it looks like 90% of the licenses I applied for were declined (South Dakota big game tags are as common as the CNN reporter reporting truthfully). I have a couple white tail tags and maybe a pronghorn. I suspect that I’ll be carrying a 280, 7mm-08 or a 7x57. A 257 Robert’s or a 25-06 might get the nod too. There’s still a chance of getting more tags, we’ll see 🫤. I got turned down in New Nexico and Wyoming too, BTW.


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I have gone to lower recoiling rifles myself as old age is coming on. I used to shoot the 30-06 and 270 exclusively but several years ago I discovered that a 7mm-08 recoiled a lot less, and stilled killed everything I hunted quite well. Lately, as the years and aches and pains continue to pile up, I’ve been pulling out a 243 quite often. I may have to try Battue’s 22-250 one of these days. I can’t physically do the gym stuff anymore. I still love that 7mm-08 though.


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Originally Posted by lastround
I have gone to lower recoiling rifles myself as old age is coming on. I used to shoot the 30-06 and 270 exclusively but several years ago I discovered that a 7mm-08 recoiled a lot less, and stilled killed everything I hunted quite well.

Isn't it a shame that we learn lessons like this too late in life. We certainly knew that bigger cartridges weren't needed for everything, but youthful pride got in the way,


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I'm using my bolt action 6.8 SPC with 110 grain projectiles at just over 2800 fps more and more these days, and it ain't let me down yet. I'm also putting together a .257 to shoot 110's at 3000-3100 fps at the moment. As you get older the lighter rifles are more appealing, so you really need to go down in power otherwise the recoil might start to be an issue. Reducing muzzle blast as you get older is another benefit of the milder cartridges.

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Originally Posted by 43Shooter
Over time your favorite easy shooting loads might change. Took my model 70 30-06 to the range last week. First time I've shot it in about four years. With scope it weighs in at 7&3/4 lbs. Around nine years ago about when I hit seventy I started using a relatively mild load of 50 grs of 4064 with a 150 gr bullet. I could put 50 rounds through it in a morning or afternoon and never think about it. It's an accurate load in that rifle and I really enjoyed shooting it. This time I was feeling it at 15 rounds. Tried a lighter load, 50 grs of 4895 with 125 gr bullets and didn't like that one much better. Quit after ten rounds. Woke up that night and the next with a sore shoulder.

I was initially surprised at this as I think I'm in good shape for my age, go to the range about every week and shoot rifles most of the time with no thought to recoil. After thinking about it though the rifles I've been shooting for the past few years are old Mausers that are at least a pound heavier than my Model 70 with light, around 35 grs of powder, starter loads or various 223s. The substantial increase in powder, 15 grs. with my 30-06 load even though it's considered a mild load makes a big difference.

Don't know your age, but I have used 50 grains of 4064 and a 150 grainer for decades in an 06....

Me and my model 70 gets along just fine still, with that load... I was born in 1952.


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I generally use a folded towel, a flip flop, or a PAST pad when shooting from the bench, even with .308-based rounds. Just makes the experience more pleasant, and I’m in my 40’s.


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When I was younger and stupid, I shot 110 gr of Black Powder in my muzzle loader and 370 gr Maxiball. Now I shoot 80 grs behind a 348 gr Powerbelt . My .06 gets 180 gr partitions I use mostly instead of my favorite 220 g RN,


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Since I started hand loading in 1967/68….. in handguns, the majority of my shooting was with reduced/light loads. Though, I developed “fire breathing” loads for specific purposes. I didn’t start reducing rifle loads until around 1972 ish…..cast bullets in my .308 Winchester for off season shooting, of Armadillos, snakes, turtles, ect.

That trend continues today…..cast bullet loads for my .375 AI (also my wife’s .338 WM), and cast, light loads for most of our handguns (revolvers)! Though…..we still have and use the “fire breather” loads for hunting! memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

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Originally Posted by Bugger
I used to shoot the 350 Rem Mag in a 600 action quite a bit. I sold it now I still have a 350 Rem Mag in a 700 Classic & a 35 Whelen in a BDL. I can still shoot that level of recoil ok. But I’m tending to lighter bullets than the 250 grain Partitions that I used to prefer - 225’s are nicer to me.
This year, it looks like 90% of the licenses I applied for were declined (South Dakota big game tags are as common as the CNN reporter reporting truthfully). I have a couple white tail tags and maybe a pronghorn. I suspect that I’ll be carrying a 280, 7mm-08 or a 7x57. A 257 Robert’s or a 25-06 might get the nod too. There’s still a chance of getting more tags, we’ll see 🫤. I got turned down in New Nexico and Wyoming too, BTW.

I love my 600 350 Rem myself. 180’s at 2875 seem like they work fine too.

That 700 Classic is too nice to leave at home.


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Back to the range with my Model 70 30-06, some reduced loads and Past harness. 100 yards, calm & hot. Best load for accuracy and light (minimal) recoil was 46 gr of IMR 4895 and 125 Sierra Pro Hunters. Three 3 shot groups with these shot 1/2" lower then my old favorite load of 50 grs. of 4064 and 150 gr Pro Hunters but all were under MOA. One was a lucky .240 clover leaf. This rifle always shot so well before that I wasn't expecting any improvement but I'll be shooting the 125 Pro Hunters with 46 gr of 4895 at the range from now on.

Thanks again to all for the info.

Edit, the ".240 clover leaf' is center to center. Outside to outside is .410.

Last edited by 43Shooter; 08/10/22.
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Originally Posted by 43Shooter
Back to the range with my Model 70 30-06, some reduced loads and Past harness. 100 yards, calm & hot. Best load for accuracy and light (minimal) recoil was 46 gr of IMR 4895 and 125 Sierra Pro Hunters. Three 3 shot groups with these shot 1/2" lower then my old favorite load of 50 grs. of 4064 and 150 gr Pro Hunters but all were under MOA. One was a lucky .240 clover leaf. This rifle always shot so well before that I wasn't expecting any improvement but I'll be shooting the 125 Pro Hunters with 46 gr of 4895 at the range from now on.

Thanks again to all for the info.

I'd bet that load will give a buck a hard time!

I used the 125 PH and 125 Ballistic Tips at a cool 2600-2700 in a 308 for friends and family as a loaner deer rifle. It was an excellent killer.


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Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by Bugger
I used to shoot the 350 Rem Mag in a 600 action quite a bit. I sold it now I still have a 350 Rem Mag in a 700 Classic & a 35 Whelen in a BDL. I can still shoot that level of recoil ok. But I’m tending to lighter bullets than the 250 grain Partitions that I used to prefer - 225’s are nicer to me.
This year, it looks like 90% of the licenses I applied for were declined (South Dakota big game tags are as common as the CNN reporter reporting truthfully). I have a couple white tail tags and maybe a pronghorn. I suspect that I’ll be carrying a 280, 7mm-08 or a 7x57. A 257 Robert’s or a 25-06 might get the nod too. There’s still a chance of getting more tags, we’ll see 🫤. I got turned down in New Nexico and Wyoming too, BTW.

I love my 600 350 Rem myself. 180’s at 2875 seem like they work fine too.

That 700 Classic is too nice to leave at home.


The 350 mag in the 600 was one of the two rifles/cartridges that I lost sleep over when buying my first rifle. I still question my decision! Though, a 350 REM. Mag in a light rifle, may have offered more recoil than a 14 yo kid would enjoy! 😁

But, living where I grew up, I thought that a lever gun was more practical and I liked the idea of it being offered in a military cartridge…..I got a Win. model 88 in .308 Win! memtb

Last edited by memtb; 08/10/22.

You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

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Well, sad tp say I haven't fired a shot since December 2019. On 1.2.20 I was in a bad motor vehicle wreck. Truck was totaled and the doc said no shooting until I clear you. Finally got clear a year later one th have a damn heart attack on 2.27/21. Doc put in a couple of stents and said no shooting. Don't want the shake the stents loose. Finally get cleared bingo, fugging cancer. Asked the doc to put the port for the chemo on my left side so I could start shooting again. S.O.B. put it in my right shoulder. I have quite figured it out yet. Is God telling me no more shooting and hunting, or is the decade of the 2020s trying to kill me or just bad luck with the doctors?

Sorry to have the add the sob story but at the time of the accident I was working with loads for the 7x57. Primarily working at 7-08 pressure levels. I have one load that does 2880 FPS with the 150 gr. Nosler Partition that shoots bug hole groups. Temperature at the time was about 105*. Recoil is mild in a Winchester M70 Featherweight and a Ruger #1A. It does show pressure problems in a custom Mauser. The load was worked up for an upcoming elk hunt.

I'd been considering doing more light load work for a while. The 06 and .35 Whelen were about as much fun as I could stand for a while which led to the experimentation with the 7x57. Using my chronograph and carefully monitoring velocity I reached a safe 2880FPS and a very tight group. Discretion decided to drop back a hair just in case so settled on a load doing an honest 2800 FPS. Groups still .75" or less. If I ever get that damned port out, I'll see how that load works out. I can always drop back to factory level and hope to get close enough to my game to get it done. My 06 flat out loves the 165 gr. Accubond and recoil with my load ain't all that bad. The .35 Whelen worries me a bit but if push came to shove I could probably handle the kick long enough to anchor my game. Just wish that damn chemo would stop. FWIW, I'll officially be 84 in 8 more days.
PJ


Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them.
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Stick with it Paul! Hope you get some range time soon buddy!


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Hey Gunner, why don't don't you switch to small varmints with a .22LR for a while? You can keep up your shooting skills , have a lot of fun until you can handle a bigger cartridge.

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