Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Forend Pressure or Hog Out a Stock

A little update...

I couldn't stand it so I went ahead and took some sandpaper to it and opened up the channel quite a bit this weekend. If I grab the end of the stock I can still make it touch the barrel but with significantly more force then previously. The results were mixed but I think progress is being made.

The first three-shot 100 yard group had two within an inch and a wide left flier. Group size was well over 2".....CRAP





I let the rifle cool and sent another three. These were just over 1/2"....Nice





I let the rifle cool and sent another three. First two were in the same hole, the third out. Still under 1.25"....Not bad





I let the rifle cool and sent another three. First two were ok but the third went wild, similar to the first group...CRAP






I studied the targets for a bit then decided to plot all the first round impacts from each group. Then the second. Then the third. Here is the results.

First round impacts from all 4 groups



Second round impacts from all 4 groups



Third round impacts from all 4 Groups





It looks to me like if I did nothing else I would have a very consistent 2 shot rifle. Unfortunately leaving well enough alone is not in the cards so I think the next move is to take a little more material out to make sure I have zero contact when the barrel and stock are flexing.

Swap the scope out with one that has a proven track record and see what you get. Easy check off.

This one is one of the "proven" ones

I would say you still need to REALLY float the barrel--which you apparently still haven't done.

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Agreed. That is on tonight’s agenda

And forget 3 shot groups, they are telling you nothing

When you shoot 3 shots and you are getting "well over 2" groups", that says a lot. If you can't figure that out you are a fu cking idiot. That is when you stop what you are doing and re-evaluate schidt. 3 shots are fine for a lot of things. POI check at long range and quick checks during load development and also conserving expensive components. I shoot that size groups at 600 yards with many different rifles, so something is not right. The OP's rifle needs help big time.. I'm totally assuming he knows how to shoot. Again, with threads like these we have to assume the shooter knows what he's doing and he's shooting off of a solid rest and good rear bag with excellent discipline. The rifle is what needs to be evaluated here, the shoooter should be doing his part and that should be assumed. If not, the shooter should say he shoots like my buddy Troy:


With that being pointed out, 5 and 10 shot groups are really the only way to go when confirming a new load. Something a lot of you guys don't get, but you better be fu cking shooting like my buddy Mark, not my buddy Troy:


That's the same rifle, but way different group size. 5 shots to confirm and maybe even a different shooter on that trigger. Like my buddy Mark did to check out the load I worked up for this rifle. It wasn't needed, but a point that should be taken and considered:


After load work is done and confirmed, shoot your 3 shot groups at distance. You know it's a load that is proven and something you can count on. That's what a lot of you guys don't get. It's not just about shooting 3, 5 or 10 shot groups, it's validating and confirming your schidt..

I got the barrel channel opened way up.






Yesterday I shot it and 4 3-shot groups averaged 1.1 MOA with individual groups from .55 to 1.7. Good…but not great. The good news is the wild third shots went away and overall dispersion was pretty even. If I transposed all 12 shots onto one target the vast majority of the hits were clustered in about 1.25-1.5 MOA with a few hits opening things up to just over 2 MOA.

I am far from a great shooter so I acknowledge I may be the weak link here.

I took a hair more material off early this morning and re-shot.

Only had time for one group before I had to get on the road for work.

This is 4 shots. I am very happy with the dispersion.




I appreciate all the input on this thread and for the encouragement to REALLY open up the barrel channel. Seems to be the right path. Accuracy was actually better with the pressure but not having to worry about POI shifts will be the better route long term.

I think the functional problem with the stock has been resolved enough that I can work on a bullet powder combo to try to get down closer to a repeatable 1-1.5 MOA with a consistent POI which is all I would ever need/want this rifle to do.

I have partitions, Accubonds, Hornadys, Sierras and TSX on hand in addition to the Speer 250s I have been shooting. In its past life this barrel shot the 225 TSX very well. I shot a few 225s before messing with the stock at all and they followed the same patterns as the 250 Speer (vertical stringing) but groups were noticeable smaller.

Will see.

I know this stock had another barrel on it, maybe check to see that it's not getting weird pressure right under the shank? That picture might be tricky but looks like the bottom might still be able to touch?

Anyway...probably time to work up a load!

MD added the last point needed.

Barrels are female. Period. None are the same although many are "alike."

I would go ahead and open the channel to be dead certain everything floats all the time, .358 Norma is pretty sporty and there's a lot of force there that might have your metal AND wood flexing and vibrating in ways you never imagined. I've put dimes on top of the barrel near the muzzle and shot them off. Sometimes they orbit, sometimes they just fall off. So get clear first. You can do it "just right" without too much trouble, especially if the ACTION is properly placed.

If you like the "for sure" floating groups then follow that through with a nice thin liquid coat of epoxy to seal the barrel channel.

If you don't like those, go ahead and make a speed bump about where your experimental items were placed. Might work, might not. If it does, then do what John says and seal that wood after the speed bump is zeroed in, make it stable in weather.

I did a pre64 action with a Shilen SS match grade #2 barrel with a little upward pressure in a Brown Pounder, many, many years ago. Worked great for me. YMMV. I think I remember reading how to do this in a Rifle magazine article. This had to be 25+ years ago. The article described hanging the rifle upside down from tie points at the front and rear rifle sling studs. Then hanging x amount of weight from the end of the barrel as the bedding compound set up. It was a detailed article. My how things have changed.

It it possible the heavy barrel doesn't have enough support under the chamber area and is torquing the action in the stock? Is the magazine binding the action? Just two thoughts.

I have a 7x57 Remington 700 mountain rifle, one of the ones from the 1990's with the thin barrel. It shot in a general way, but not enough to satisfy me, sort of everything around 1.5 inch three shot groups. I thought it should do better. The barrel was free floated.

Just for the hell of it I tested it with a shim under the front foreend, about 1.5 inches back from the foretip: I put a rectangle of inner tube under the barrel there. Tightened the stock up again, and shot it. I got a half inch group, and have done ever since. I superglued that rubber where it was and left it. I only shoot three shot groups, but I have several in a row at half an inch, so I am satisfied.

I have tried this before, because I read about it in a Jack O'Connor book, but this is the only rifle to which it has made a significant difference.

I appreciate the additional thoughts.

I actually have been working on a 225 TSX load and things look very promising. Allowing for the human factor, I am pretty comfortable that the main functional issue with the rifle was the flex in the stock. I do have a B&C Extreme Weather take-off stock showing up soon with an aluminum bedding block I may throw this rifle in. If it is much stiffer and well floated it will be interesting to see how much of a difference it makes.

I’d free float the barrel.

Another thing you might check is your scope bases.Sometimes those heavy recoiling rifles can loosen things up,especially if they are aluminum.

Have you tried changing your bullet seating depth? I like to start with in 015 inch of touching the lands if my magazine will allow and then if my groups are still large, I will seat it another 0.10 and shoot another group. I also like to float my barrels.

A quick update for those that have been following along. After hogging out the stock it settled down quite a bit with the 250 Speers...not varmint type accuracy but all the crazy stuff went away.

As a Whelen, that barrel shot the 225 TSX very well and I had some on hand. Did some velocity work and settled on a load of H4350 that produced around 2,860 FPS. I played with the seating depth starting at mag length and shot several groups. The first time I shot, the rounds with the shortest OAL (2.668" CBTO) produced the best group at .948 MOA.



With groups getting better as I got shorter, I loaded up another 4 at 2.668" CBTO and then two more progressively shorter 4 round groups at 2.659" and 2.642".

They went .828 MOA, 1.09 MOA, .981 MOA.









Adding in the previous .948 MOA group at 2.668" CBTO, I have 16 consecutive shots that averaged .962 MOA. Considering the POI of all four groups is very consistent with three different seating depths and my worst group is 1.096 MOA (which included the cold bore), I am thinking...






Still need to verify drops but feel comfortable enough now that it is time to seal the barrel channel and move on to something else. Thanks again to everyone that contributed.