Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Next step in shrinking group size

If you can squeeze the forend and barrel together, the barrel isn't floated. That would be the first thing I'd change.

This^^^^^^^

Guess I'll break out the sockets and sandpaper. Thanks guys.

Are you trying to make a target rifle out of a hunting rifle ? What size group are you looking for ?

Sounds like a real nice rifle. Should be a damn good shooter. Like others have said, so many variables. One thing about threads like these is I will assume the shooter is "doing their part". However, in one of your posts, you mention not having a good rear bag... Buddy, that is critical!! A rolled up towel or sweatshirt may work in a pinch, but do yourself a big favor and get yourself a good leather rear bag. As soon as you do, you'll see what I'm talking about. As for the front: Your Harris bi-pod should be fine. I use the type that swivel and they work just fine off the bench or in the prone position. Yes, there are better ones out there, but the Harris is quite stable and good enough for checking groups. I've done it for years. The only real drawback to using a Bi-pod is your barrel has to be really freefloated, so the weight of the rifle does not apply any pressure from the stock to the barrel. If it hits anywhere, it will affect the harmonics. Especially if you preload your bi-pod, then you will get a POI shift and groups may get wonky. Bi-pods work great, just make sure when you use one, it does not apply ANY pressure to the barrel. That's not to say you can't have a really rigid stock and a full length bedded action (including the barrel). So, back to my original post about seating depth. The targets you posted in your OP are text book examples of double grouping. 3 in 2 out. Like I said before, that generally means you need to shorten up the OAL. Since it is a custom barrel, it may not have a real long throat. Also for finding your lands, you don't need any fancy equipment. Grab an old Speer manual and look in the how to section and they go over a simple process that works like a champ. It requires you to soot the bullet. I use a bic lighter. Of course, don't do it by your gun powder!!! You can use one of your once fired pieces of brass and a good accurate caliper. Guys have been doing it this way for a long time. No need to pay good money for a tool you really don't need. Also, I have to say I hope your rifle is properly glass bedded before you go and hog out that barrel channel. If not, you may find your accuracy gets worse. Just a warning.. Good luck with it and remember to get a good leather rear bag. By good, that does not mean expensive either.


This is one of my favorites and it didn't cost me a ton. Sometimes I even label my rear bags, for which rifles they fit best:


Also, at 100 yards, I don't worry too much about the wind. It doesn't have a huge affect on accuracy/precision, but you still have to be mindful of it. Also, I've said this 1,000 times here. If you have to wait that long between shots, there is something mechanically wrong with the rifle. By "mechanical", I mean glass bedding done improperly where the action and barrel are stressed or there are residual stresses in the barrel from machining. A good rifle will throw 10 shots downrange, one after the other and put them all inside of an inch or less... Even a "good hunting" rifle should be capable of sub 1.5" 10 shot groups, one right after the other.... Most of mine are 1" or less.. I shouldn't post pics because that just pisses people off, but here's how a good rifle will fling them down range in the wind:

That was the first group fired with a "new to me" scope I had just got off of ebay for $100, so no it was not even dialed in perfectly yet... I later threw that scope on another rifle (Steven's 200 22-250) I had and sold to a buddy as a package deal. He wanted something to hunt yotes with. It (the Steven's) outshoots his $3,500.00 Christensen Arms and I only sold it to him for what I had into it ($500)..
That same rifle (new to me 7mm rem mag) still shooting about the same moa out at 300 yards.


I know, it's killing you guys because I'm posting 3 shot groups. Here's the same rifle with a 5 shot group. Again, at 300 yards:

That's a "hunting" rifle and the load wasn't developed for that rifle, but shoots well enough.

For a bipod off the bench for evaluating accuracy, a smooth piece of Masonite, etc with a piece of waxed paper on top of it can make a big difference in group size and repeatability. The bipod feet slide the waxed paper backwards on the Masonite and get rid of the bipod jump and skip.

Good shootin' -Al

Like I said in the op I’d like to be confident at say about 700 yards putting it in the vitals of an elk. I may never hunt elk, but it giv s me a goal. Maybe it’s good enough. But I see folks on here shooting better groups and I want to do the best I can.

BSA, that is one nice range. Is that out near Burns?

My 2017 hodgdon's manual shows a 73.5 grain max load of 7828 and 140 gr Hornady. Don't know what they used for a test rifle or if it had a freebore.nare you getting any max pressure signs? My markV 270 wthby thrives on max loads. Just something else to think about.

Thanks bsa! You’re part of the inspiration for this post. I bought this rifle from a pretty reputable company back in 2001. I can see it was bedded and I assume properly except it may need the Chanel open d up a bit. So, I’ll try that and see if I can screw it up. I’ll be getting a rear bag in short order. I’ve been wanting to but not made it a priority. It’s been frustrating me.

Thanks again!

Thanks Al,

I recall JB posted that even benches made a difference. I’ll try some wax paper and Masonite.

So many variables…..

I appreciate everyone’s responses!

Since you have never hunted elk, I will put this forth. The odds of seeing an elk at 700 yards and having the time to dope out the wind and trajectory is pretty low. Do poll on here and you will find 95% of elk killed are less than 200 yards and a big percentage of those are under a 100yards.

It is nice goal to try to wring out the best possible accuracy of a rifle but not necessary to hunt elk.
Many rifles just won't shoot any better than what you are seeing . YOu probably already know, each step of changing powder, primer,brass, bullet, seating depth,stock design, rifling twist, bedding qualities, concentric necks, annealing, warm barrel, cold barrel, and a hundred others may only yield a minuscule reduction of group size. The .270 cartridge in a 130 gr bullet is known for ease of finding decent load.

Stuff 60 grains of H4831 behind a 130 gr Sierra Match King, seat .02 from lands and you will be fairly able to see what your rifle can do. I not any better I wouldn't be chasing a lot of ghost to make it do better. But than, I'm just a grumpy old fart that doesn't know much.

Isn't the OP shooting a 270 Weatherby?

Saddlesore, I sure won't be backing up to shoot any elk. I have bow hunted them, but not with a rifle. I'm just trying to get the best I can from the rifle. I appreciate your thoughts.

Mathman, it is a weatherby cartridge.

I've got a 6mm creed that was a cheap brownells barreled action that I bedded in a vanguard stock with j.b weld. That $400 rifle groups a tad better than this pedigried job that I gave $2400 for in 01. I've killed a dall ram, Mt goat, mule deer and a bunch of white tails with it. I'm just on a kick to try and wring it out some.

Scenar shooter and others on here have me wanting to pursue the illusive one hole group.

You won't get three with that combo but honest 3/8-1/2" 3 shot groups should be doable.

I'd highly suggest JBing the barrel and removing any hard carbon buildup in the throat before doing any further serious load work. That way, you're starting from the start with a totally clean barrel/throat and the groups aren't bigger because of hard powder fouling.

Good shootin' -Al

Nobody has any business shooting any game animal at 700 yards.

I just recently did that and dyna bore coated it. It should be good to go.

For sake of conversation, I just messed with the hornady concentricity gauge a bit. My 6 creed ammo loaded with lapua brass and 105 scenar and a hornady die set, of those I measured are within 3 thousandth.

I measured a few of the .270 wby rounds. Has some within 3 thousandth and some off as much as 7 thousandth.

I'm gonna sand my barrel channel some and separate my straightest rounds and see what I can do with them.

Thanks everyone, for your input. I know I'm what big stick calls a window licker. I'm comfortable with that. But I'm learning a few things here and there even at my age. Y'all have made this a fun day. I am thankful for you.

I think i'm safe in saying I haven't see anyone mention testing different jumps off the lands. it's the easiest, best way to fine tune your rifle's accuracy. Both the Barnes Bullets and Berger websites write about it. With a Barnes all copper bullet, start your powder testing at .050" off the lands; Barnes like to jump! With lead core bullet it depends on whether or not your shooting competition or hunting. If targets are in order Berger, IIRC, suggests starting "in" the lands and about .005" to .010" off the lands if hunting. Once you settle on or at least narrow down your powder charge Barnes Bullets suggest shooting more groups in .025" off the lands, even out to .250" off the lands....or more. Berger suggests .040" increments. Try it. It usually works!

Alan

It was mentioned that Accubonds like a lot of jump. Twice. Flew right over his head.