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For those who own fixed sighted handguns, how many of those shot to the point of aim right out of the box? Not talking about drift adjustable sights like on a standard 1911 or dovetail mounted combat sights on a revolver, but specifically "groove in the frame" fixed sights where there ain't nothing you can move there.

If not, were you able to make adjustments by your grip or via a different load? Or did you twist the barrel a bit to make a minor windage adjustment and/or file or replace the front sight for elevation adjustments?

I'm mostly interested in knowing the make, model and caliber of the handguns that did or didn't so both yeas and nays are fine. If they do and you want to mention the range where POI and POA coincide that's good info, too.


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every Model 10 i've had or shot have always shot to POA


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I had a Colt New Service in .45 Colt that shot dead on with a smokeless duplication of the original service load. I had a 1911 Series 70 .45 acp that must have been factory regulated for 180-185 gr police service loads, shot to the sights perfectly. I have a S&W #3 Russian in .44 Russian of course, that has caused me a nervous breakdown, hair loss, and chickens to quit laying. Still working on it, gaining slightly, 2 molds later, 2nd front sight change etc. Hope springs eternal. I have a 1904 Colt Bisley in .38 WCF that is a work in progress, twisted the barrel to get my windage and that worked ok, now I'm going to see what I can do about a 3 inch high POI @ 25 yards, which is dang near a foot high at 75 yards...I will fiddle with the velocity a little because it is cheap and easy, but I may need to get a lighter bullet mold, I'm using 190 gr semi flat points now. If I had better eyesight I could just take a finer bead, but the the notch in the frame is so narrow it's almost impossible to 'bury' the front bead. And I think it would be a sin to modify the notch.


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Owned an H&K P9S that shot anything with a 147 gr bullet right where you put the sights.

Nearly ditto with an issued 4" S&W model 65 loaded with 158 gr .357

Had an issued S&W 67 with adjustable sights that I never touched the adjustment screws.
Used the Speer 140 lawman ammo mostly

Ruger LCR .22 puts mini mag HP into little clusters right on the sights.

Ruger LCR .38 puts 158 SWCs just a tad left and high. Centers my 125 HP into a bit larger group

Have owned and or used a number of S&W m10s that would put some load or other right on the sights.

RIA 1911 .45 with aftermarket fixed sights. Dead nuts with about anything in 230 Gr


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My S&W 581 was dead on with every 158gr load I tried.

Last edited by Stump Buster; 08/15/22.
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Zero guns as you've described shot POA/POI. And I'll clarify that to mean one inch or less variation between POA/POA at 10 yards. And out of over 100 out-of-the-box new guns, I've had exactly three handguns with any sort of sights on them shoot POA/POI. Fixed sights are a joke if you are any sort of precision shooter. There's zero reason to spend $1000 on a gun and then have to tailor/limit the load to what works with the gun's sights.

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I had one Ruger SA Blackhawk that needed to be tweaked, but most of my other's seem to be well regulated


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I've only owned two handguns with "trough" sights, a Colt Dick Special and a Ruger Wrangler. Neither of them shot anywhere close to the sights. The Colt shot nice groups, high and left, the Wrangler shoots high/left, also, but the groups are excrement.

Correction, I also have a little Rossi .38 Special snubby that DOES shoot exactly to the sights with 158 LRN. I've even popped a couple of prairie dogs at about 45 yards with the thing, it's amazing, doubly so when most consider them to be "second tier" at best.

Truth is, I usually don't buy anything without adjustable sights. I like and need them.


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I have probably owned over 40 different fixed sight revolvers over the years, from Ruger Bearcats, Vaqueros and Wranglers to various S&W J, K and N frame revolvers and Colt, AWA and USFA single actions. All of them except 1 or 2 would have been completely serviceable for defensive purposes out to 40 yards or so. The vast majority were very close to POA at 25 yards for elevation, but most were off by 1 to 4 inches in windage. I have had the barrels turned on about 10 of them that I planned to keep for awhile.

Currently, I own 3 Colt SAA's, in .38 Spl., .44 Spl. and .45. The .38 was perfectly regulated from the box. I had the barrels turned on the others to correct windage. Elevation was fine on all. 2 S&W J-Frame .38's were both dead on at 15 yards. 2 S&W Model 10's; one was perfect and the other shoots 2" left at 25 yards. One Ruger Old Army was perfect as received. One Ruger Wrangler was OK for windage but needed to have the front sight filed down for elevation and 2 AWA Peacekeeper .357's were also OK for windage but had ridiculously high front sights that had to be filed down a great deal to zero them.

If you are only shooting at shorter ranges, most fixed sight guns are fine as is, but if the ranges are longer or the targets are smaller, you may have some tinkering to do. Windage seems to be more of an issue than elevation in my experience.

Last edited by wildhobbybobby; 08/15/22.

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Same here, I generally stay away from trough sights but wanted to see if any one particular model stood out from the rest as being well regulated. I'll add my own data to the survey:

Early 1980's Colt Lawman Mark III, .357 snub nose version of their Trooper Mk III - windage was good, shot pretty much right on top of the front sight at a 50 foot indoor range.

Next up was a Ruger Bearcat .22 in the mid-80's - it didn't shoot anywhere near the sights, it was 6" low and 4-5" right at 25 yards. Sold it pronto.

Early 1990's Ruger SP101, 3" .357 also grouped any 158 grain load right on top of the front sight at 15 yards. .38 Specials and .357 loads all grouped right in the same place which was counter intuitive but appreciated. However, a 125 grain factory .357 load would shoot 14" low at 15 yards.

Last one was a Ruger New Vaquero in .45 Colt in the mid-2000's - like the Bearcat it shot some 6" low and about 4" to the right.

I can put up with a handgun that shoots a tad high since you can aim under the target a bit plus it just means it's sighted in at a longer range than 25 yards, but if windage is off by much that's too hard to compensate for as range increases. Both windage and elevation off means it goes down the road asap.


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Pretty much the same here…Ruger Bearcat, Vaquero, and my Cimarron Arms New Thunderer needed their barrels turned a bit, and the Thunderer needed some filed off the front blade.

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Back in the late 90’s and early 2000’s, most fixed sighted pistols, out of the box I bought, needed adjustment to front/rear sights.

Within the last 10 years, almost all new pistols would shoot within an 1” of poa.

With that said, I just bought a pistol sight pusher tool because I’ve been switching out sights on several handguns.


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Originally Posted by Beaver10
Back in the late 90’s and early 2000’s, most fixed sighted pistols, out of the box I bought, needed adjustment to front/rear sights.

Within the last 10 years, almost all new pistols would shoot within an 1” of poa.

With that said, I just bought a pistol sight pusher tool because I’ve been switching out sights on several handguns.


🦫


If you can use a sight pusher tool on it, it's not fixed sights.

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Originally Posted by OlderGuy54
Originally Posted by Beaver10
Back in the late 90’s and early 2000’s, most fixed sighted pistols, out of the box I bought, needed adjustment to front/rear sights.

Within the last 10 years, almost all new pistols would shoot within an 1” of poa.

With that said, I just bought a pistol sight pusher tool because I’ve been switching out sights on several handguns.


🦫


If you can use a sight pusher tool on it, it's not fixed sights.

My mind drifted to sights in a dove tail cutout, not revolvers with a rear grooved slot and front sight, or a small belly gun type pistol with fixed irons.

My bad.

🦫


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No issues with a S&W M12, M64 and, most recently a M65. My Ruger EC9s was dead on as well. This out to 20 yards.


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My M10 shoots very well, but is a little off to the left. This target was at 18yds, I can live with it.
A lot of my handguns seem to shoot a little left so it could just be me. 😁

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That's a good group. If you move that target just a tad to the left you'd be dead on... wink


But seriously, folks - I seem to have that problem as well but in reverse. Being left handed a lot of handguns with adjustable sights shoot a little to the right for me with their sights centered, at least I usually have to put in a few clicks left windage to get the groups lined up.


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The Beretta m21 shoots close enough to point of aim that I can bounce empty shotgun casings at 10-12 yds with regularity. I had a Taurus 431 that IIRC was consistently an inch or so high and left at 15 yds. Sold that, but for other reasons. AMT 380 DAO I had was hitting a bit high at 10 yds with Silvertips, which was the only load I ever used in it. Ruger Single Six was spot on at 25 yds with several loads. 2.5" SP101 is spot on for as far as I can see the target with 158gr. That's all the guns withfixed sights I can recall shooting and recall where they hit.


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Never had a problem with j or k framed s&w revolvers. My EC9s is on the money with 115 fmj's. If I adjust anything it's allways bullet weight first and that mostly resolves it..mb


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Cimarron Model-P Jr. In .38 Special needed to have the barrel twisted just a tad in order to shoot to center.

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