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All bullets above seem to be obtainable currently, none made of unobtainium.
This is a solid copper obtainable:

[Linked Image]

I see the perfect 400-gr FNFB hiding inside that bullet.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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For now, if not using the 500-gr TBSS:

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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CEB brass bullets are without doubt more than satisfactory.
Another fun combo suggested here:

[Linked Image]

Above image is from MIB. More pressure data is coming.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Just looked in email and found Hornady advertising this.
Correction to 900 fps impact expansion please:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Sir Ron,
I have definitely taken a strong liking to that 380 Lehigh. So far have only fired it in the nemesis of the 458 Winchester. But, it seems to have the potential for accuracy. I will add, the 404 Hammer seems Mighty accurate. Impressive indications when firing slightly different seating depths and various powder charges. More work to be done with it after the MIB laboratory work is complete.
I think with The Hammer in the grand ol Winchester, I will be very content with 2375-2400 fps. Especially from 22". I should make a severe impression on any moose or bear from point blank through 200 yards. One has to love the bc and performance. You did well, Very well !!

Last edited by ldmay375; 08/17/22.
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Sir Larry,
I would not settle for anything less than 2400 fps with that 404gr Shock Hammer in your .458 WinMag with 22" barrel.
As for the .458 Lott ... ho hum ... heh heh.
That Lehigh will work great in .45-70 Gov't. or .458 WinMag at plenty fast speed.
Until the Lehigh gains 20 grains of weight:
Bubba offers substitutes for the unobtainium 400-gr FN monometal solid in .458 caliber.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Very interesting Sir Ron, to be a fly on the wall of your machine/load shop, LOL!

Shell belt loops loaded tight for ease of extraction, final zeros checked, 458 WM+, 404 Hammer/500gr TBSS at 2500-2300+ fps respectively, old Holland double 500-450 3-1/4" Nitro Express ready with 480gr Hornady DGS/DGX's at 2148 fps over 105gr H-4831, it's a 75gr Cordite rifle, i'm much lower than that with the H-4831 pressures, plus, they'll stay put in all temp extremes.


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Sir Jerry,

Hold my beer and watch this !

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Last edited by Riflecrank; 08/20/22.

Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Still waiting on Pac-Nor, expected 6 weeks is turning into 6 months.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Originally Posted by gunner500
Shell belt loops loaded tight for ease of extraction, final zeros checked, 458 WM+, 404 Hammer/500gr TBSS at 2500-2300+ fps respectively, old Holland double 500-450 3-1/4" Nitro Express ready with 480gr Hornady DGS/DGX's at 2148 fps over 105gr H-4831, it's a 75gr Cordite rifle, i'm much lower than that with the H-4831 pressures, plus, they'll stay put in all temp extremes.
I wouldn't want to be a fly on the safari tent,
prefer to be a bateleur following the action with 8X vision,
soaring overhead as the carcasses pile up.
Good luck to Sir Jerry.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Good work as usual Sir Ron, i really like the mass that makes up the petals on that Hammer, will really bring the pain at shear and follow through, the shank should exit, LOL on Bateleur, sounds french ; ]

And Thanks for the well wishes Sir.


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Sir Jerry,
You have suggested the totem animal for the .458 WM+
with that fly on the wall comment.
The eagle has landed.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Latest pressure data from MIB:

[Linked Image]

Those short-COL 405-gr Remington loads are surrogates for the 404-gr Hammer at 3.480" COL.
Approximately same seating depth.

Also, remember that whatever the .458 Lott can do, the .458 WM+ can do better,
as long as the bullet is long enough for a good bateleur seating.

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Steve Davis said this, this afternoon:

"We will be working on solids soon. They will not be traditional as the traditional thinking is over a hundred years old and flawed. The current Shock Hammers in the 400g class will out perform a solid of the same weight. The Shock Hammers shedding weight will out penetrate a solid of the same weight that does not shed weight due to terminal stability. The solid will turn or tumble sooner inhibiting it's penetration.

There have been more Cape taken than we can keep track of now. I know one individual that has taken around a dozen himself plus his hunting partners taking about the same. These all with Shock Hammers. There is no doubt about the capability of Shock Hammers on dangerous African game.

Brian will be taking a cape in a couple weeks. We have a prototype 303g Shock Hammer in the 416 cal currently ready for the 416 Wby. If we can find time we will do a solid in our current vision. One of these two will get the nod. I really want to get the solid running. We already know the capability of the Shock Hammer design."

And I said this in reply:

Hallelujah !

I'll pass along the info on Cape Buffalo Shock Hammerings to Sir Jerry.
He will not feel under gunned with the 404-gr./.458-cal. Shock Hammer at 2500 fps MV.

Will be interesting to see what your design looks like.
Until then I ordered a couple of boxes of the 447-gr Shock Hammer for Bubba to "hand-tool" into 405-gr./.458-cal. FN Solid Hammers.

Really now, the facts you are alluding too about the Shock Hammer stubs abilities to penetrate
are the very basis for superiority of lighter solids at higher velocity versus the old heavyweights.

[Linked Image]

So easy to make a 405-gr FN Solid Hammer from this.
Even Bubba can do it with a hacksaw, bastard file, and thimble-type case mouth chamfering tool.
Take off 40 grains from the HP ogive walls, chamfer 2 grains off the base edge, and shoot it backwards in a pinch.
I am sure you can do much better at optimizing the FN solid nose shape than Bubba chamfering bullet bases.

(Brian and Steve are the entrepreneurs creating Hammer Bullets.)


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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This one is a .500 Bateleur (.510/.338 Lapua Magnum Improved):

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

My next .458 WM rifle will be similar to this but with iron sights added,
and muzzle threading will be for suppressor more so than for brake.
The .458 WM is so much easier on my shoulder than a .500 Bateleur.
Should be a joy.
I will call her New Fugly Joy.

My Bell and Carlson stocks are color-coded.
Black with grey webbing for FN Mausers.
Red with black webbing for Winchester M70s.
Green with black webbing for CZ 550 Magnums, heh heh.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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I'm loading 85 grains of AA2230 in Norma cases 215 primers behind the 404 grain Shock Hammer 2523 FPS



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Originally Posted by jwp475
I'm loading 85 grains of AA2230 in Norma cases 215 primers behind the 404 grain Shock Hammer 2523 FPS
I will try that one in New Fugly Joy to the limits of box length.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Oh yes, new business.
Since elimination of the phrase "buy a donkey" due to the donkey pox endemic in USA government,
(fomite is Democrap, fecal oral spread), unintentional association, unfortunate for sure,
and since we now have a new totem animal with French name, bateleur:

I hereby move that a new phrase meaning "thank you very much" be accepted for Square Table business.
Spoken as Elvis would say it in French: "Mercy bo coop."
Will anyone second the motion ?


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary
.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Second



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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For a while, I've been wondering which combination of solid bullet weight and velocity from a 458 Win results in maximum bullet penetration. This would represent an inflection point in the graph. Of course, the bullet nose would stay unmolested as the bullet was shortened from the back for each tested weight. How light/fast or slow/heavy of a bullet would be the winner?

Last edited by bcelliott; 08/21/22.
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