Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Alaska Water Rage In Halibut Cove

There are some exceptions. Narrow channels are an exception, and that cove has all of the characteristics of a narrow channel.

Way to much unknown for me to come to any kind of conclusions as to who was legally right or wrong in this situation.

LEO types making off the cuff assumptions and willing to write tickets or make arrests, don't mean any of that would hold up in court.

Is there a local ordinance prohibiting or limiting seaplane use in this bay? Just cause you own a plane don't give you the right to land, takeoff or taxi anywhere you want.

One thing I can tell from viewing online images of Halibut Cove is that I don't see airplanes tied to docks. That uppity lodge there don't even have it's own planes.

I find that in itself rather peculiar for a high-end Alaskan community with no road system.

Does she own the bay?

Alaska law offers these types of coastal waterfront land owners very specific rights that extend to mean low water and mean high water marks.
Ain't nobody gonna know the mean low water mark on any piece of land with a casual glance. It requires a special detailed survey to figure that out..

She may very well 'own the bay' or at least a single piece of land where her rights extend to the point that you can't access the bay without trespassing on her land.

The way I see it she may have being attempting to get the plane to stop so she could inform him of the woes of his ways.
He refused to stop, so she tried again and again.

How different is this from me running my side by side across your private property and you cutting me off with your pickup in order to stop me, I swerve and avoid you so you try again?

Far too much unknown...

Nutshell.

If she causes bodily harm the lawsuits would clean her out.

I get it. Wait until some rich absentee farmer puts up a hog confinement just down the road or up wind. Or, the big farm corporation puts in drainage tile and empties your well. I get it. I don't mind a guy making a buck but when it disturbs the peace and quiet of the neighbors and the neighbors are not cashing in as well, that's a different story.

kwg

Its a shallow bay, I've been in there a few times, never tied up as I got the impression they prefer out of state folks with money. Not cheap azz Alaskans! Considering Homer has the 2nd most active tide's in the world, its possible some area's of the bay go dry on a minus tide. Regardless you know damn well she doesn't own the bay. Pretty clear she was antagonizing the pilot of the floatplane. A sane person that wanted to get the pilot's attention would have hailed him on the radio and or paralleled his course. I suspect they have interacted prior to this and have obviously not reached a understanding. It's also obvious she does think she owns the water and can bully people into believing she has a right to control the water. She may be steeped in Ak history, does not give her the right to be an a hole. Seen it a lot with long time Alaskans that want to make it appear that have more rights than anyone that hasn't been here 75 years... yet they like the money outsider's bring... some outsider's stick around and turn out ok..

She may not be the only a-hole.

Seems like a collision of idiots.

Yep, HC is a good place to avoid, plenty of other places to go in AK.

This kind of crap has been going on in Halibut Cove for years.
Late 80's I was motoring in to go to the restaurant and caught a 3/4" poly line that was strung across the mouth of the bay just under water.
luckily it did not mess up my prop.

So what backstory justifies Marian’s actions?

There’s no question there are quite a few unknowns. I’m just curious, especially in the land of the quick to judge Campfire, why the reluctance to do so in this case?

I’ve interacted with her before. She’s been this way for a long time. And while Jeff’s supposition is likely true, it still does not justify her actions in my mind.

I'm just without a true opinion due to my lack of knowledge about the land, waterways, and possible regulations in place for Halibut Cove.

I refuse to make assumptions based on superficial understanding when it comes to a individuals or a communities rights.

Property rights are a big thing for me, I'll respect yours and expect the same in return.

I've been through a couple of cases in Alaska where 'tide lands' and landowners rights were disputed, one in particular where millions of dollars were at stake and litigation went on for a couple years.

The outcome was far from what I'd have ever thought possible.
Land owner rights to mean low water and mean low low water can vary for a lot of reasons from how deeds were worded to the date acquired.

I don't know all of what's needed to come to conclusion.

What I do know is this.

Clem Tillion purchased the lands surrounding Halibut Cove in 1948, Alaska became a state in 1959, prior to '59 Alaska was a territory.

Could there be a difference in what we know to be 'state lands' and the rules that govern it just due to this alone?

Idunno

Clem Tillion was also a Alaskan State politician for 13 years.

If he was much like any politician we know today, he used his politcal tenure to the best of his advantage to better himself and his personal interests.

That makes it a real wildcard for me at guessing at what his real estate holdings might include for special rights and provisions.

Just looking at his home in Halibut Bay makes me think he probably entertained every political figure in the state there at one time or another. Lots of influence gained drinking cocktails and fishing with the right entities.

I'm sure he'd of gotten everything he wanted and more for his little Cove.



I'm not condoning her actions but I'm also not condemning them.

And no, I don't know that she doesn't own the bay.

I knew Clem pretty well for 15 years or so. Stayed at his house, ate dinner with him, and he hosted my parents when they came up to visit.

He gave away most of his land in HC (as I previously posted). He donated (and continued to maintain) the docks that anyone can use, and has the post office. He regularly invited tourists to tie up, and hang out in his yard for picnics and whatnot. For someone who gave away more than he ever “took”, I’d be very surprised that he used his political position to enrich himself.

I’ve learned that these types of disputes, at least in Alaska, often run much deeper than they appear and the old beefs between sourdoughs can have accidental collateral damage.

It was actually your earlier post that first provoked my thoughts.

With Clem having the desire to create a coastal community of sorts, he'd need all the special rights he could muster up to help achieve that.

Personal pursuits made by a politician might be driven by personal goals they seek to achieve not nessasarly personal riches they desire to stack up.

What good is land you're attempting to develope if it's high tide access only?



When the area you're in has a tide exchange of upwards of 30ft it can become very limiting on the lows, twice a day.



You have to have tide land rights to reach out there so you can be accessible 24/7.



Driving pilings off the shore to build on adjacent to your property is one thing.



But when you reach out far into a bay and start driving pilings I'd suspected you'd have special specific rights and provisions to be allowed to do that.



So that's what makes me suspect that the surrounding property owners may have some unique rights to that bay that you might not see just anywhere.

The rights to these tide lands don't necessarily roll over with a sale or gifted parcel of land, they can be held by the original owner if so desired and deeds are written accordingly.

That's one thing, but you may be able to answer another.

I'm still not seeing airplanes tied to docks in these pictures.
I'm not even seeing provisions for airplanes in the ways these docks are constructed, why?

When you were hanging out at Clems place, how common was it to see a plane taxi up the bay?

This really puzzles me and makes me think there could be some sorta rule or ordinance limiting or prohibiting the use of seaplanes in this bay.

A beautiful, protected bay like that should be a magnet for airplane owners seeking weekend and summer retreats to wisk their families away to. It'd be a pretty easy flight from Anchorage if you owned your own plane.

Why aren't they there?

Hazards.





https://mustreadalaska.com/alice-rogoffs-terrifying-crash-landing-ntsb-report/

I never saw floatplanes in HC. With the exception of visitors like the ones that AKwolverine posted, they WERE very rare. The lodge selling bear viewing trips is a new thing. Heck the lodge is a relatively new thing.

In Alaska, the public has a constitutional right to access and use navigable and public waters regardless of who owns the underlying bed....Article VIII. Section 14. If Tillion had any prior existing rights concerning the tidelands they would likely have been shown as an exception in the quitclaim deed that Alaska received from the feds at statehood. It and its accompanying documents are around 900 pages if anyone is interested in checking through it.

Alice. lol

Bout time, I knew this pic was gonna pop up yet. lol.

Technically she didn't 'land' in the bay, we're not playing horseshoes here.

Laffin.

Impact?