Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Blew my Glock up

There's all kinds of various answers, but I'd suspect its easier to mass produce them the way they make barrels. A lot of European manufacturers use hammer forged, rounded land pistol barrels. Glock isn't exclusive in that regard.

I shot plenty of cast bullets in my M19 when I had it. They were cast out of straight wheelweights and lubed with Alox, and I cleaned it regularly. Never had an issue, and some of that ammo was loaded pretty warm. I never could warm up to the thing, though, and sold it after about six months. I liked my HiPower better. And a Tanfoglio, or anything else. I just didn't like the thing.
But it shot okay, and never caused any issues I knew of.

Following up with what Manny said,

That load does not sound hot at all. LOTS of things can happen though. Barrel obstruction, weak brass, worn spring, etc.


First I will put this out there. NOTHING below is anything negative on Dennis. Many things could have happened, and without being there to witness or gather information firsthand, anything is really just conjecture.

In doing product development and testing I will and do often test loads that are FAR beyond what I am going to offer to the public for sale. I do this to provide a margin of safety built into the ammo.

I know that while the vast majority of the people that buy my ammo are reasonably smart people and use common sense, there are always a few that fall into the other category.

I also know that for whatever reason that there are a certain percentage of gun owners and guys in general that are total cheapskates. They flat out will not do preventative maintenance on their firearms.

True high performance .40S&W loads are ones where being cheap and not pulling preventative maintenance and having fresh springs in your gun is absolutely a time bomb. It is not "If". but "When".


Below is a cut and paste from another forum and a "back and forth conversation between two individuals, one of whom has never changed his recoil spring in a reported 20,000 rounds on one .40 S&W Glock and allegedly twice as many on another .40 S&W Glock.







" By the way one of my glock 22s and my glock 23 have at least 20k on them and i wouldnt doubt the 23 has double that and the same recoil spring glock put in it at the factory is still going strong and ive NEVER had to replace a spring in a glock magazine. Ive had to fart with them in the cheap aftermarket mags but NEVER a glock factory mag. Ill add to that every mag i have in the house is stuffed full and left that way till its used and put away loaded when im done."


Xxxxx,

Empty out your Glocks, point the muzzle straight up, pull the trigger. Now holding the trigger back still, pull the slide all the way back. Now slowly ease it forward, gently. Does it close all the way? If so, you're golden. If not, if just doesn't quite lock up the recoil spring is past it's useful life. This is the correct, factory approved test.

And I can tell you, if you've got 20K + on a recoil spring you're waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay past due for a change. Knowing you I expect you'll report perfect performance: it's all good. But at 30 or 40K on one spring you're battering the hell out of the frame.

Just FYI.


ive NEVER had to replace a spring in a glock branded mag in any of my glocks. The guns get lubed with about anything i happen to have on the shelf but mostly tetra grease or oil. only mag spring malfunctions have been with cheap aftermarket mags. By the sounds of it youve had more glock failures just in your house then ive heard of from all the glock owners i know. But you have me figured out! Im a bald faced lyre that knows little about shooting handguns Ill bow to your vastly superior knowledge. After all ive only been doing this for 50 years. Well thats a lie too. I didnt get my first glock until i was 33 so only 32 years experience with them. Im out of this one. Kind of out of placed here. Not near the experience as some and just a macho redneck that isnt afraid of the violent recoil of a 40sw


The reason I cut and pasted that, is that "Mr Orange" is absolutely an accident waiting to happen. Guns will often function with totally worn out recoil springs or other parts, though they are battering the snot out of the frame while they continue to function. But when you introduce a high performance load into the pistol, you run into major problems. Where a properly maintained pistol would function as normal, "Mr Orange's" pistol is a catastrophic problem waiting to happen.

This thought process of MR ORANGE is no different than saying. "I don't need new tires. My tires are still round, They have not popped yet. Just because they have no tread on them means nothing, don't tell me my business, I have been driving for 50 years"

Then when MR ORANGE crashes due to a tire failure, it is "All the tire's fault" and he did nothing wrong.

AKA Glocks are POS plastic guns. .40 S&W Glocks are dangerous, etc, etc.





Just FYI,

On .40 S&W and 10MM I change recoil spring every 2,000 rounds, or do the spring test and if it shows signs of being weak, I pitch it. Springs super cheap. Less than $10. It is stupid not to swap them out versus risking destroying your gun.



Now, back to the topic of "Lead in Glocks". Without going into a massive writeup, there is an incredible difference between a hardcast bullet and a pure lead one. If one does not know the difference, do some research. In the last 30 years I have fired literally 100s of thousands of hard cast projectiles through Glocks. 100s of thousands. Without an issue. If you know what you are doing, it is not an issue. Plain and simple.

That is not "I read it on the internet, and so and so says".

That is 30 years of first hand experience as a USPSA competitor, government firearms instructor, LE instructor, running embassy armory programs, teaching citizens, teaching military, private contracting, and as a commercial producer of ammunition for various groups. That includes developing, testing and producing specialty ammo for organizations/groups. And now finally selling some to the public.


Prior to this last weekend I was testing some polymer coated lead semi wadcutter 170 grain ammo in .40, in a Gen 3 Glock 22. Part of the test was performance using a standard recoil spring assembly (RSA) and then heavier spring weights.











Part of the test was velocity extreme spread.

Without going into a ton of details, and I just don't have time this morning, the punchline is this. The stock RSA, with the rather hot loads ends up with very wide velocity variations. the heavier the load, with stock a stock RSA, the more inconsistent the velocity.

Using heavier recoil springs, the velocity extreme spread settled down and became very consistent.

In one of the top end loads, which I will not post the details of (AND DO NOT PM ME, I WILL NOT DISCUSS THE POWDER, CHARGE WEIGHT ETC. JUST DONT ASK.) I was running the 170 grain poly coat lead bullet consistently at 1275 FPS. This is a load that is not intended for sale and purely for testing purposes.


That said, the brass, with a heavy spring showed zero signs of extreme pressure. Primer pockets were good, brass was in excellent shape and the velocity was very consistent.







I ran around 500 rounds of heavy .40, designed for deep penetration through a stock Glock barrel and had zero issues.

I could have gone quite a bit hotter, but I was well within the margins of what I needed for my project, so there was no need. Interestingly enough, the 40 S&W 170 grain poly coat SWCs were exceeding some 10mm "name brand" ammo I have shot over the chrono, by a fair little bit.



Info gathered first hand from actually going out and getting data yourself trumps "I read it somewhere".

And here is another 20,000 rounds of .40 caliber "first hand info" getting ready to be gathered.






CHEERS ALL!

Dennis,

glad you are ok

JWP,

You're right, I could have worded that better. Likely a tighter chamber, throat, maybe the type of rifling, and the longer barrel probably all contribute somewhat to the higher fps as compared to the Glock factory barrel.

Regards,

Manny

Macay, Buffalo Bore recommended heavier springs in the Glock 20 in 10mm with their 220-grain cast loads and they also said shot-to-shot velocity variation went way down. Just as you experienced. My accuracy improved with the heavier spring and 220-grain cast loads. Ordered a 22# spring for my Springfied XDM 10 MM

This quote from BB that SU35 posted explains it better than I can

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...glock-10mm-with-heavy-loads#Post16891543

What the owner of Buffalo Bore experienced in his testing is pretty spot on and parallels what I have done and observed. I generally don't take anyone's word for things unless I know them personally or know their background/credentials and testing processes/procedures. That said, what the owner of BB has found in his results and loads is right in line with my own.

Your observation that accuracy also improved with the heavier spring/heavier projectile is one that I have noted as well.

I have been doing a substantial amount of testing of a heavy .40 load as of late. Using a polymer coated 170 grain SWC and have gotten some truly excellent accuracy. Traditionally .40 Glock barrels have not been noted for their stellar accuracy, but in testing I have noted that these heavy loads shoot very very well.

I will likely offer a heavy 170 grain load specifically for 3rd Gen and newer Glocks, but I may actually sell it with a guide rod and heavier spring as an added measure of safety to ensure that people are properly set up, since I have seen far too many Glocks with completely worn out RSAs, and people assume that if the gun is still functioning then it must be OK.

Guck Flock, their pisstols fit the hand like schidt.

Retard alert.

Same old whine.

"I can't shoot this because it does not fit".

A competent shooter will be able to pick up a Glock, a K Frame .38, a Ruger Service 6, a Colt New Service, or a Colt 1911 and shoot them all reasonably well. Using the "it does not fit my hand, so that's why I can't hit anything" is and always has been a pretty telling sign.

lol

My money goes to S&W for pistols that point like a thought.

Mackay,

What have you seen far as bullet set back during recoil and excessive pressures? You think this might have happened with Dennis reloads? I know when I load up 10 or 40 ammo I do use a Lee factory crimp die.

It is pure speculation without being able to observe anything. Bullet setback could be a cause. Many things can be a contributing factor to that that do not get considered too often.

Dirty dies is one thing that rarely gets discussed, but most could use maintenance. When running progressive presses and loading any decent volume they need to be maintained. Most don't do regular maintenance. Most dies contain built up crud in them and especially when using hard cast bullets with lube, the build up happens faster.

My toolheads get pulled on a regular scheduled interval and I use 99% alcohol (I buy it by the case) and a bunch of swabs to clean them to make sure they are free of buildup as it does not take much to affect the overall length. I go through a very specific cleaning routine to ensure that the machines are extremely clean.

In the case of Dillons (being the most commonly used progressive) another thing is the powder funnels in the powder station. Most use some manner of lube on cases when doing high volume, and depending on the mix, it can cause some powder buildup in the powder drop. This is one of those areas that does not get checked often enough by some folks and then they have inconsistent throws.

I have torn down a few powder stations for guys and shown the individual the blockage before. It is normally caused by the lube from the cases. Mine get cleaned constantly while loading. You will get inconsistent powder charges otherwise. For example, you may go from a standard charge of 10 grains and then the buildup starts slowly reducing charges, and you get charges of 9.7, 9.8, 9.8. 9.9, etc, then you can go one way or another. The powder may dump in a clump, and you get a 13 grain charge instead of a 10, or you get almost no powder at all.

It pays to be super diligent and have a very clean press.





My 1100 thats dedicated to heavy 9mm gets torn down to the frame on a regular basis:




All of this is to show and to say that it is very easy to have an inconsistent powder charge and not know it if you are not on top of various aspects of press maintenance.

There can be lots of reasons why Dennis' incident happened.

There may have been an unknown barrel obstruction. A piece of dirt, branch, etc. Various things.

I was at a range years back with a concrete pad and an agent dropped some factory .45 rounds from his hand. One dropped on the nose and it pushed the bullet back into the case. I saw it and picked it up. The
guy was not a "gun guy" and did not know that it was not a good idea to shoot the round. Bearing in mind it was a .45 230 grain round, it likely would have not been an issue, but the point is that lots of things can, and do happen.

That is a good example of setback and excessive pressure. In the case of .40 and 10mm, they don't really have much room for error, especially when it comes to the top end. performance rounds. Any sort of setback at all, and I would not shoot them.

Longshot, the powder Dennis was using is a very low pressure powder and is very forgiving. You can get excellent velocities and not see much in terms of pressure. It is one of the better powders out there in terms of upper end performance in semi autos. It also meters very well. Some powders don't but it is one of the better ones for precise metering. The actual intended charge weight of the load does not sound like an issue at all.





Back to the topic of the LEE crimp dies

I too use LEE crimp dies and they are great for making very consistent ammo. I use an assortment of other dies. Some may be standard Hornady or RCBS or a Wilson or Redding Micrometer, but I very much prefer the LEE for crimp dies. Especially for revolver ammo. Their roll crimp dies are the only way to go for heavy hunting ammo in revolvers.

Hope this helps.

Mackay, I appreciate you sharing your expertise in building high end ammo and emphasizing the brain power needed to harness it. As well you seem to know enough about Glocks to critique when necessary. But enough pablum. I shoot primarily jacketed bullets but will most likely load some of the 170gr poly coated bullets you mention for my son. He’s in the Cali high country and does outback treks for dudes and dudesses in the summer. Should he run into a cougar or black bear looking to expand their diet the 170 SWC appears to be a good defensive bullet. Not to mention the possibility of a grizzly on summer vacation.

I load the .40 mostly with PowerPistol as close to max as I can without getting the smile. Most of my loads now are the 165gr Montana Gold HP at 1/10 gr below max. With these bullets at those specs, and the 170 SWC at velocity determined by the smile criteria would you consider a stock spring sufficient, or would you go heavier. Say, to the 20 or 22 lb. His pistol is a Gen 2 G22 and I shoot a Gen 2 G23. Thx

While the Gen 3 barrels definitely have updated barrel chamber support, the older Gen 2s were a bit lacking and were upgraded. It was not only the barrel but the locking block as well.

I was involved in dealing with Glock back when there was an issue with the locking blocks. I ended up discovering that the Glock 22 (1 pin) .40 cal locking blocks were rising up out of the frame and hitting the underside of the slide. During our annual inspections (I was a firearms instructor as well as armorer for an agency) I noted distinct wear patterns on the underside of the G22s. Long story short, I discovered the locking block was pivoting out of the frame and making contact with the slide.

This was doing it with enough force to cut grooves in the slide. We were looking at deadlining every single G22 issued due to this. (our agency issued both Glock .40 and .45 ACP Glocks. Fortunately the vast majority carried .45s)

The reason is, as I explained to my director is that what was happening was slowing the slide velocity down. Slide velocity is paramount to reliability. The whole reason we teach people to grip a gun tightly, don't rest the gun against barricades, etc is to provide a rock solid vice like platform for the frame, so the slide can reciprocate back and forth as it should, cycling the gun properly.

Long story short, I worked with Glock and they ended up replacing all of our Glock 22 1 pin locking block handguns with newly redesigned 2 pin locking block handguns. The 2 pin locking blocks totally eliminated the problem. They did this for free, as they did not want the publicity I suppose. I don't know if they called the newly redesigned guns an upgrade or what. I just know the old one pin .40 cal guns were a thing of the past.

I can't and won't recommend hot loads for older Gen 2 .40s as they don't have the same upgrades as the newer guns.

In your case, I would not go with a stock RSA. The heavier spring the better. A Wolff guide rod and the heaviest spring that allows the gun to cycle. 22 would be good.

Hope that helps.

Any experience with the gen 5 .40 caliber Glocks Mack?

Not yet!

The Gen 5 9mm barrels though are quite impressive in the accuracy department. Quantifiable accuracy difference between the Gen 3 and 5s. I don't think there is a more reliable service 9mm in the world than the Gen 3 G17 in terms of an out of the box gun, but the new Gen 5 9mm guns I have shot are really, truly tack drivers.

Eventually I will grab a couple but there a few guns I need for T&E purposes that I need to pick up first, so that will have to wait until the budget allows.

Is the 2 pin block compatible with a gen 2 frame or would that upgrade require going to a gen 3 complete lower with the gen 2 barrel & slide assembly?

Also we have another G22 Gen 2 that is giving ejection problems. This pistol has been shot little, mostly because of being prone to malfunction but also because it’s just not been needed. But it apparently needs to go back to Smyrna. Since day 1 it has failed to extract on probably 40 to 50% of rounds fired. And I’m talking 4 different brands of factory loads in 180, 170, and 155 gr jacketed. Also with 165 and 150 gr handloads. It appears the extractor is jumping the rim because the round picked up from the magazine is found nose to primer with the fired case. The extractor itself appears good and spring tension on it is strong. Baffles me. And the worst rounds of all are Nosler 150 with 7.8 and 8.0 gr PP. Mostly 7.8 because the smileys go away there. Pistol jams on probably 80% of those. Could the block issue possibly cause early contact knocking the case from the extractor?