Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

Thank you Sir. I shall load some of Sir Gerry’s big medicine and look forward to doing so.

Best wishes, Chris

Hello Chris, you're most welcome, and Thanks You too Sir, i use H-4350 in 500 and 577 Nitro doubles only, it regulates the 570gr TSx and Banded solids to a beautiful 2168 fps in the 500, and a Buffalo and Hippo smashing 2076 fps in the 577, both rifles have 26" barrels, went with H-4831 in the 500-450 because of it being a bottleneck cartridge, you're going to smile big when you hear the thunderous BOOM it lets off at firing, my Wife calls my Holland "Big Thunder" LOL.

Speaking of bottlenecks and wads, i had reserves in doing so as i couldn't figure how the wad would handle the neck juncture of the case, while easily understanding how easy wads work in straight walled hulls, a half inch wad tucked neatly in a 458 neck may indeed hold the powder down just fine, i just wondered about pressure spikes at the "draw down" area of case body to neck to exiting the cartridge hull, no worries at all with H-4831, it carries nice warm pressure [read low] all the way down the barrels, i like the even barrel warming temp with hand wrapped around barrels, guess i'm trying to say i sure like "even smooth" Sir.

Thanks Sir Tony, it's going to be a blast, done quick drill with Wife again yesterday evening, she insists on tracking buffalo and other dangerous game with me, my only order to her is to stay on my back like a little monkey in the event of a rodeo, i need to know where she is, she grabs those long linear muscles we have running down our sides under arm pits and hangs on with arms outstretched, i know which way i'm going to move long before she does, try as i might, i cant outstep/fake her out, i guess a 122lb chicken that can run 26 miles in a marathon is laughing inside at an old man still trying to move!

Yessir, Thanks, and you too BCElliot.

Well Thank You Sir Ron, expecially any NE load data for 458 cals ; ]


If the guys at Hammer get around to making you up a solid, a 458 cal flat, or cup nose at around 405gr would be absolute perfection, they make a little cup nosed 137? gr bullet in 9mm, that little booger would be a barrier hole drilling bone breaking exiting all vitals for sure and certain on two legger felons hellbent for a new air conditioned bed that slides in the wall down at the coroners office.

Sir Jerry,
Good point.
Pun intended, on the cup point.
Since CEB is doing a longer-nosed 400-gr FN
solid in brass,
a 400-ish grain "Claw Hammer"
with shallow cup point might be the better request for Hammer.

Hell yeah it would.

3.580" COL with the 500-gr TSX is nowhere near max for a .458 WM+ load in a Ruger No. 1 or CZ 550 Magnum, etc.
Could go to 3.780" in a SAAMI .458 WinMag chamber. The SAAMI .458 Lott chamber cannot do that.

Excellent 400-gr Swift loads at 3.262" COL. Remember to add at least 72 fps to correct the 20"-barrel velocity to 24"-barrel length.

AA-2230 is just too slow for the 350-gr TSX at 3.230" COL.
H4198 is where it is at with that bullet, and longer COL in a .458 WM+ load.

Excellent comments, Sir Ron... thank you!

"Remember to add at least 72 fps to correct the 20"-barrel velocity to 24"-barrel length". I typically add 100 fps as an average. Not that I've had a 20" .458 WM, but largely based on experiences of two distinct Marlins in .45-70:several in 22" and one in the 18.5" GG. When pushed to the limit (probably over 40,000 psi), but safe in my rifles, the 22" would give ~2120 fps from the 405 Rem, and the 18.5" barely made it over the ~2000 fps mark. A loss of about 100 fps from a 3.5" shorter barrel.

And you did qualify that by "at least 72 fps".

That's a FWIW.

Thanks again for your endless and excellent work!

Bob

www.bigbores.ca

I don't have as much to add as you guys do, but I have been steadily shooting my 458 Blaser and it is only getting better. My Mauser needs to go to the smith for a little cleaning up, and then it will be shot more as well.

I like a short LOP on my rifles, and the Blaser chassis/stock I have it in right now goes 13". I let a friend shoot it yesterday, and did not give any instruction, as he has shot that Blaser stock before, and he has a 416 Rigby of his own. We have shot big bore rifles together a few times, from 404's to 470NE's. Well, that was a mistake as he scoped himself something fierce. Both his forehead and the bridge of his nose were cut up and bleeding a fair bit. I felt terrible about it and will make sure to caution people in the future, regardless of what shooting experience they have. We were shooting federal 500g Swift A-frames, which I think of as pretty pleasant loads, but lesson learned! He handled it well, and still shot two more rounds after that, all in a tight group.

Sir Bob,
I do not doubt your finding.
Below 20" barrel length, a lot more is lost per inch subtracted.
Above 24" barrel length, a lot less is gained per inch added.
Bullet weight versus powder burn rate is mostly a wash.

good day RIP, hey going to Africa next June and will be shooting the 404 Hammers for Buff but was thinking about using their 300 grain Hammer bullet for Zebra and Kudu out to about 200-250 yards and wonder what AA2230 weight charge I should start at? I have not shot the Hammers yet but was using 79 gr of 2230 for the Hornaday 350 but would like to get the Hammers up to about 2700-2800 fps, what do you think. thanks Jim, buy a donkay

I'm shooting the 404 grain Shock Hammer @ 3.383" COAL in Norma brass Federal 215 primer ahead if 85 grains of AA2230 new manufactured powder for 2523 FPS. This load may be a bit over SAAMI MAP, but has worked fine in my rifle with repeated loads in the same brass

For the lighter bullets I think a faster powder is needed

404 grain Shock Hammer is now being served
COAL 3.383" 2523 FPs

that is what I will load for the buff but looking to use the 300 gr with AA2230 for plains game out to 200-250 yards

4198 will give more velocity with the 300 grain bullets

Hydehunter,
Have you not chosen your Sir Name for the roll to be called of Knights of the Four Five Eight at the Square Table ?

As Sir John has stated, AA-2230 may be too slow to get you to 2700 to 2800 fps with the 300-grainers.
I do not go there without H4198 Extreme.
Hope you can find that powder.
But I would prefer to use the 404gr Shock Hammer for buffalo and plains game.
Compare:





The 300-gr TSX at COL of 3.330" from a 25" Shilen barrel at 72*F:
Hornady brass case
F-215 primer
H4198 78.0 grains >>> 2790 fps at 5 yards, 2810 fps MV (G1 BC 0.230)
H4198 79.0 grains >>> 2831 fps at 5 yards, 2851 fps MV (G1 BC 0.230)

While we are showing and telling of Hammers,
here is the "Jack Hammer" Sir Jerry told of, a cup point:



Seems the shallower cup point is called a "Claw Hammer" as with these:

To make the .44-40 WCF a better winner of the west:



And here is a .416-caliber Claw Hammer:



Scale that up to .458-caliber and shorten and flatten the base to make 400-ish-grains weight.
Wouldn't a 400-grain/.458-caliber Claw Hammer be nice in a .458 WinMag ?

Yes it would Sir Ron. I'm a fan, and can see how great they work. The Cupped tip, minus the point, is a plus.
Hence the term, "Cup Runith over"!

well RIP, how does Sir James work out? have been working with my CZ550 for the last couple of years. was looking at the 300 gr as it looks to be flatter shooting at 200-250 yards but I do like the the 404 shock hammer and talked about it with Steve on our trip to Africa this last April and will be ordering some when he gets back next month