Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Elk Hunting Old Shoulder Friendly Elk Rifle

I'm not quite there, but its getting close! I drove rig-up trucks/moved drilling rigs/30 ton tandem, rigging,etc for 20 yrs in my early adulthood. No automatic transmissions, all 4 speed Brownlight and 5 speed standards, reach around and work winch levers, etc) Replaced both knees, left hip ( yep, my clutch leg/knee!) plate in neck. I can take alot of recoil, but I am noticing some subtle changes in my right shoulder. While it isn't freezing up, etc, it gets sore; some days worse than others. So, for the bad days, I am thinking of a lighter weight/lighter recoiling (muzzle brake is fine) but not ultra-lightweight ( I can't shoot them well) rifle for elk. (I was thinking the Kimber Pro Hunter Dissolve in 280AI or '06 w/brake might be too light?) I limit myself to around 300yds anymore also.

For hayfield, etc cow elk, I have a sweet older Mod 700 25-06. I am scrounging up an older Remington 700 Model 78 30-06 that has been set in an older wood, ADL stock. Limbsaver and a brake would do nice. I like the older Model 700 Mountain Rifles and of course the older Mod 70 FWT. Anyone travelled this route for this reason?

Since you like Remington's, have you considered a nice 722 or 7 in a 300 savage? Run some monometals like the 130gr Barnes.. I remember my 722 300 savage was a sweet shooter with no recoil.. That's the route I'd lean because I don't like loud azzed brakes on a hunting rifle..

A modern 6.5x55 would do I'd think. If you handload some 139 gr Lapua Scenars would be a death certificate and fairly easy on recoil. You can also buy loaded Lapua 6.5x55 ammo with the Scenars. Pricy but shoots like lazors. 300 yds no problem at all.

Good luck with your shoulder.

Brakes are LOUD but.... would make an 06 very pleasant and nothing wrong with getting a set of those "headphone" foamy ear pro you could drape around your neck.

Even before I had my right shoulder replaced, I added a brake on my .06. Now with he fake shoulder I am really glad I did. 180gr loads are between my 6.5 swede and .243 recoil wise.

Electronic muffs and plugs at the range. Electronic muffs while sitting when hunting

I mentioned 30-06 as I really like the round, especially with 200s and even 220s, but they do kick. I also have (like most of us) more .30 cal stuff than others. I used a .280 a bit, then had it reamed to the Improved 30yrs ago. Good round, didn't need a brake even in the Mountain rifle. My last attempt at a decent shooting 7x57 flubbed on me. I mentioned my 25-06 only because so many older guys use them out here, even on elk. I never shot anything bigger than mule deer with mine. Keep the ideas coming guys! ( sorry you had to get your shoulder replaced SaddleSore)

Since you want to get the recoil down forget about the 220s and drop to a 165. Since you're talking about 300 yards and closer load those on top of Varget, RL15, N140 or N135 to approximate M1 Garand match ammunition. This is much softer shooting than full blown 30-06 power.

I have a wad of the Barnes 175 LRX and Speer 200gr. That's the issue in todays market, ha.

I put a suppressor on my 721 30-06. The recoil is noticeably lower, maybe 243 level and with 180 grain Interlocks in the 30-06 and full load

Any 26, 27, 28 caliber cartridge whose MV sweet spot is around 2700 fps will do nicely on 500 lb critters out to the distances you've mentioned.

I don't do it often, but I can still run 2-3 rounds of 220's thru my .06 with the brake. No particular need to now days. A few years back I picked up 5-6 boxes of 180 Nosler Partitions for $13/box from SPS

All you need is something like a 7-08 or 7x57 and Barnes 120 grain TTSX. Eat hardy.

I have a pair of M700 243’s that have accounted for 14 elk, most of them in the hands of youngsters. All them with a 100g NPT. One at 375 yds. All the elk died quickly, one did run 80-100 yds. The rest within 20 yds or less. Two of the cows killed were big cows 500+ lbs.

The 243 with 100g NPt’s works. When I get to the point where my lightweight 270’s and 30-06 AI are too much, a 243 will most likely be my choice. Plus they’re a hoot to shoot.

If I’m getting hammered by my rifle, I’m shooting too big of a cartridge, or am using a lousy recoil pad, or using an ill fitting stock. I’ve had a couple rifles with muzzle brakes—never again.

Makes me hurt just reading this. I feel your pain.

Power, who needs it? One experience doesn't make a rule, but I came around a corner on a dirt road a few years ago and here was a nice pickup sitting in the middle of the road, door open and an old guy fiddling with his rifle. I gave him the high sign, ok, no hurry. He walked back to my truck and whispered, there is a legal elk in that clump of firs above the road and none of my damn ammo will chamber in my rifle. I thought for a second and told him I had an iron sighted .30/40 Krag under the seat. After a quick whispered discussion of what would happen to my rifle if a game warden came by, he used the Krag on the standing elk...170 yds steep uphill...thwock, one and done. 180 gr roundnose around 2200, no drama.

300 yards and closer, spells .308 shooting 155 Scenars.


It is an easy button.


My little girl started shooting one when she was less than 100 pounds and really put the hurting on elk with hers.

I have used brakes in the past on some rifles. I tried and ended up "hating and taking off" the ones I call the KDF Style; "holes all around" type. While they do help with recoil, OMG the noise! Between the Oilfield and five years in heavy Artillery in the Army, I have no High Frequency hearing left. My smith makes one of those "three big perpendicular holes" type (I call the Artillery type) that is surprisingly very quiet "when shooting it ". If a friend is off to the side very much, watchout! ha If they stand directly behind you, not bad at all. IF I got a brake, thats the kind I would use. I had one on a M77 SS Hawkeye in 338 Federal years ago. That was a good rifle, but I just couldn't get all excited about the round itself...just my own freakiness I guess. I don't "accumulate" rifles, usually sell one to get one if you know what I mean. I do have a new T3x Lite .243, plus the 25-06, so I'm in no bind. Thanks for the suggestions guys, keep them coming please, I appreciate it.

6mm creedmoor

My little girl started shooting one when she was less than 100 pounds and really put the hurting on elk with hers.


Is her rifle a Tikka? What scope does she use? She is cute as can BE, I have twin girls myself...but they are 47 yrs old, ha

I'm surprised nobody has recommended the other easy button: the 6.5 Creedmoor shooting most any 120+ gr bullet you can load in it.

Yep, hers is a T3 .308.

Started first with a wood stock cut down for her smaller stature. That is now set aside for her younger sisters. Now her rifle wears a full size standard stock. I had the barrel trimmed to 20" and a brake put on, so recoil is minimal. She shoots 155 Scenars exclusively.

The first scope was an older American made Burris 3-9. Now it wears a fixed 6x SWFA zeroed for 300 yards, as late season elk are usually about that far, and anything closer is still in the "point and shoot" kill zone.








Now she is 20 and working as a cowboy in the Frank Church. Helping an outfitter run pack strings.



Smoke from all the fires












Living large for a cowgirl!

For years I used a 7mm Mag for nearly all my hunting. But then I got a 308 Win and haven't taken the 7mm out of the gun safe in several years. The 308 Win isn't flashy and it isn't sexy but it is effective and deadly on game.

I think you’ve already got the rifle you’re looking for in .25-06, load up some 120 partitions and slay any elk you want out to 300 yards.

I hunted with a fellow for a few years that shot a Ruger #1 single shot in25-06. Not many elk got passed him

Jim, how about the 130 or 150 ttsx out of your 30-06?

I have some 130 TTSX to try in the 06, for sure. I also have some 98gr Power Hammers to try in the 25-06. It has a nice B&C synthetic but full length aluminum bedding block, so it could stand a lighter stock for some types of hunting. I will play around with the 06. If it doesn't suit me, rather than pouring money into it, I'll put a lighter stock on the 25-06, maybe. I can load the Hawkeye 338wm down, but it is still a pretty robust 9 pounds all up. Not bad, but no bird gun in my hands, ha. Thanks guys. Hopefully I can get to the range this Friday and shoot some.

an '06 too light? Not hardly. Switch to a 180 or maybe a 165 bullet. At 300 yds, either one is an elk killer. I've taken a bunch using 165gr Accubonds. PT's are great, too, but I've been able to stay supplied with AB blems from Shooters Pro Shop.

I meant the rifle itself, the Pro Desolve. I have trouble shooting a very light rifle in the field. I can put up with a few rounds of about anything, as far as my old shoulder goes right now, but the ultra lightweights with their skinny/fickle/very thin barrels drive me nuts, ha. I shoot far more than I hunt, of course. In fact, I would love to have this Hawkeye 338 down to 8 pounds. I know I'm looking at a compromise. I've even considered another Tikka T3x in '06. Just never shot one so no idea of their recoil ( unbraked). Any Tikka 30-06 users out there? Please, you are welcome to chime in.

Plenty of stories/examples on this site of folks taking elk at all distances with cartridges that use lighter bullets and less powder than a 30-06. I'd pick one of them that floats my boat.

while shooting with the gun you hunt with is best, you can do a lot with a small caliber, even a 22LR. That'll keep the eye and trigger finger tuned and help with the steadiness. I have a 22-250 that's great practice, especially for long range. It weighs as much as my '06 but with no recoil.

A braked Tikka 30-06 shooting 150 grain TTSX clod to 3000 FPS will have almost 7mmRM trajectory to 400 yards & not have much kick at all.

It’s been said previously about how good the 308 WCF is. The 308 WCF with a 150 grain Barnes TTSX at +\- 2,900 fps is an excellent, reliable lower recoil elk load out to 400 yards.

Thanks guys, I really appreciate the input!

Love those pictures and the story.

Looks like she was raised right.

DF

You may not want to hear this, and many others might object, but among my local elk-hunting friends (many of whom have taken well over 50) the trend seems to be toward lighter cartridges. Two only shoots cows these days, and instead of their previous magnums (which ran from the 7mm Remington to .340 Weatherby) they use the .22-250.

One who started out with the .300 Winchester Magnum 40+ years ago eventually went to the 7mm RM, and then to the .257 Weatherby and, over the last few years, the .25-06. He killed a 6x5 last fall with no problem, at around 200 yards....

You already have the correct rifle! Upgrade the recoil pad, and go hunting. Find a load that your rifle likes, and kill elk! Of course acquiring a new rifle is more exciting!

I am not a fan of brakes. Get a good recoil pad and shoot what you can handle. If you handload, load up some Barnes 130s at 308 velocities in the 30-06 and be done. Or as already suggested, the 25-06 with 120s. If that is still too much or you do not handload, a 260Rem or 7mm-08 (love this one!) would be great choices. One of those two in a Rem700 stainless with a laminated Mountain Rifle stock would be a teddy bear to shoot.

7mm-08, 150 ELDX, 407 yards.





P

Many years ago I won a beautiful model 700 in 06 caliber.
I too had my right shoulder destroyed and rebuilt so I had a slimline brake installed on the rifle.
I shoot exclusively 180 grain rounds and while the 700 was a very good shooter originally it became even better with the brake installed. People say a rifle accuracy can go one way or another with a brake installed and mine went the good way.
As for recoil I compare it now to my .243 which shoots only 55 grain ballistic tips. Very gentle. And comfortable.

Osky

I hear you guys, Old Shoulder here. ha I just got back from the range. Took the 338, 25-06 and the 243. It became apparent that while I could still shoot it, the 338 was getting to be just too much of a good thing. Top it off, this rifle does not like the 200 NBT/Varget loads at all, but wadded in the 280gr Hammers! And they hammered me, ha. I can still shoot a 300WM in the right set up ( for me, the Bergara B14 Hunter with no brake and a good pad is just as easy to shoot as the CA Mesa with brake in 300WM! ) So, I'm selling old Thumper. The 25-06 and 52gr R16/97gr Power Hammers cluster together!! Sweet. Thanks again guys!

I suspect many that bad mouth brakes have either: never experienced the benefit of one, maybe were next to one on the range and the owner didn't take in account other shooters, or didn't have proper ear protection when they shot a rifle with one.

If others are present, I make sure I am at the end of the line and always mention to other shooters that I have a brake on my .06.

When out hunting, I wear electronic muffs.I don't walk around much anymore, so I put them on when I sit down.Amazing thing is all the noises you hear in the forest. Wear them walking around and you get an idea how much noise you make that elk hear.

Yes we can all go out and buy another rifle with a more moderate cartridge, but myself, I have a few rifles that have a lot of tradition behind them. I know them, they are comfortable to carry and shoot and hit where I point them. The brake on my .06 has allowed me to keep using it.

I have .243 that was given to me by my wife's grandfather before he past , but it has 1"bull barrel, an old Bausch and Lomb 8x scope that the adjustments are all in the mount, and set triggers. If you have and can use a .243 to kill elk kudus to you. I'm just an old fart set in my ways and don't consider it an appropriate elk rifle. No offense meant.

One of my most gentle recoiling firearm is a 270 BAR.

A 6.5 x 55, 7/08, 7x57 ain’t bad either. But I only own on BAR. It’s kinda like having a break without the big noise.

This question is exactly what the 6.5 CM is the answer to... load a 120/125/130 and slay elk.

^^ this ^^ for most, but i am not there yet still shoot`n my 257 Weatherby mag. but its a heavier rifle .

There’s your solution.
I should have emphasized in my previous post that it’s all about a stout bullet. All of our blathering about cartridges really doesn’t count when it comes to the terminal performance of the bullet.

^^^^ this

Try 46.5 gr Varget under a 150 etip lit by a Fed 210. Be a shade over 2900. When you run those numbers, it is surprisingly flat. I literally had my 30-06 and 308 out yesterday AM. 58.5 gr IMR 4451 gave me a shade over 3000 with a 150 etip, my 308 gave me a shade over 2900. I'd rather shoot the 308. The 308 will be heading west in October.

My other elky rifle is a 338 Fed shooting 185 TTSX at 2700. Same recoil as my 30-06 but 1 lb lighter and a bit shorter. I'm trying to find a use for my 30-06. And struggling....

I have a 130 TTSX load for my 308. 47 gr H4895 nets me 3070 and sub-MOA with the 130. It shoots fairly flat but runs out steam fairly quick and drifts a bit in the wind. There's a pic floating around on the interweb of a whitetail shot with a 130 TTSX launched from a 30-06. Shot was straight away, bullet entered in the ham and exited through the nose. I don't recall the velocity but would suspect 3300ish. Ive not shot anything with a 130 TTSX or the 150 etip yet, mainly because I just tried them. By the end of hunting season I should know more.

I've grown to like the 308. I kind of backed into it about 10 years ago but a Kimber MT with an SHV riding on top is a solid platform for alot of NA. Especially when you're backpacking or going deep. Mine is short, light, handy, and accurate.

The other option I'd consider is a plain Jane 270 shooting the 129 LRX. I did load development for my buddies 270 last year and it's fairly tame as well, and shoots flat. My next MT will very likely be a 270. If they ever make them again......

The 6.5 Creedmoor with 127 LRX at ~2800-2850 fps works great on big critters (including larger than elk) with minimal recoil and decent ballistics.

The "light kicking" rifles/rounds I have killed elk with are the 270 Winchester, 300 Savage, 8MM Mauser (loaded to only 2400 FPS) 308 Winchester with 150 grain bullets. One that was very effective, well beyond it's stats on paper, was the 44 magnum. All my elk kills with the 44 magnums were from handguns and all but one were shot with cast bullets, with the one exception being a Hornady 265 grain bullet that was actually made for the 444 Marlin, but worked well in my 44 revolver. I have to conclude that the results from carbines would be as good or better, and a 44 from a carbine is not a hard kicker for the most part.

The hardest kicking rifles I ever killed elk with are my 416 Taylor, 45-70 (loaded to top power levels from a marlin 95) my 375H&H.
The one that has seemed to be the fastest to put elk on the ground was the 375 H&H but it's odd to me that the other that gave me the most "bang-flops" of the whole group was a 270 Winchester loaded with 150 and 160 grain bullets. (Nosler Partitions and the old thick jacketed Remington Core-Lokt from the early 70s

We have a tendency to believe power and recoil go hand in hand (for the most part that's true) and we think the harder kicking rifles and rounds will drop game faster, but over 50 years of killing game in several states and several countries has shown me that is not really true.

Brass shells don't kill. Amount of powder doesn't kill. Recoil doesn't kill. Even the bullet doesn't actually kill. The bullet is the tool that makes the wound, the bullet HOLE---- and it's the bullet HOLE that kills.

A bullet that get clear through even when breaking bones and does the damage it should is the key to a killing wound and the fact is that the ones I have killed with 270s (probably about 30-35) and all fallen at the shot or within a second of so afterwards.

I have killed a good number of elk with 300 magnums, 7MM magnums and a few with a 338 mag and using good bullets all were very good for elk but the truth is that not one of them put the elk on the ground any faster then my 270s. Why? I don't actually know---- but that's what I have seen. When using what I call "so-so" bullets, or bad elk bullets, my 7 mags and all my 300s were not AS effective or satisfactory as my 270s let alone any better.

My 35 Whelen is more of a push than a snap on the shoulder. Not hard at all. Good knock down power with a 225 gr bullet loaded to max powder. 2,000 ft/lbs of energy at 300 yards. Bullet drops about 12" at 300 yards.

Consider a 7-08 pushing 120 TTSXs at 3000 or so. It's a good 300 yd round for anything in the lower 48. An M70 Featherweight would be a good option. I prefer the lighter Montana.

A few years ago I bought a 300 Savage in a 99 Savage. The most accurate hand-load matched the accuracy of the Remington factory load - that was with 130 TTSX’s. I tried a lot of loads with that rifle.
I bought a 308 since then. The most accurate load was with 130 TTSX’s. I tried quite a few loads in that rifle too.
This summer I dug out an ADL 30-06, the most accurate load I tried with that rifle was about .65 MOA, the bullet 130 TTSX’s. I didn’t try many other loads after those TTSX groups. I may be trying that bullet and rifle on whitetail in a couple months.
For years I have tended to be using a heavy for the caliber bullets, well most of the time. I’ll see how things work this year.
I wonder how the TTSX 130 grain bullet would work on elk out of an ‘06. That load had a noticeably less recoil than the 180’s I normally use. Though I find the 180’s pleasant enough.

6.5 Creedmoor shooting 130 Accubonds should work without beating you up too bad. My Creedmoor kicks only slightly harder than my.243.

Ron

The good part is I am not all "super tender just yet", ha. I can even shoot the 338 for load workup, but just get pretty sore afterward. I have long ago reached the age where I "enjoy shooting" the lighter rounds "much more now", ha. I may try to have the old Remington 78 ('06) reamed out by JES for the 338/06, just for grins. If need be, a brake on it makes more sense. I can/have/do very often just load the 300WM down to 30-06 levels. That's just for the cup n core bullets I have. All the Monos get the best the rifle will give me. I don't use any of my Centerfires for "plinking" anyhow, so no more than I shoot I'm going to be good for awhile....should be...Lord Willing!

Tikka fan here. I would take a Tikka T3 and suit it up in a caliber that works for you. A 30-06 would be plenty, the 270 would be good. You could even take the 7mm-08 and convert it to a 280 AI and be in one pretty cheap. Although I bought a Kimber Montana in 280 ai for about the same price that it would cost to make that conversion. I feel like the Tikka is very good with recoil for me. I am not recoil sensitive either and I am a pretty big guy, but the Tikka T3 I have in 300 win mag feels like light recoil than any other 300 win I have fired, much more like a .30-06. You can buy a pre-fit Limbsaver pad from Mountain Tactical and be good to go. You could also go with a .284ai and take advantage of the long magazine and chamber length that Tikka offers if that is more up your alley?

As others have mentioned, you can also tame recoil by going with a longer, lighter solid copper bullet like the TTSX.

That is too cool!

Relative to what zero?

Relative to what recoil?!

At this rate we'll have poor Jim back to a 375 H&H.....

Agreed. I own a 35 Whelen and have owned a couple more. That ain't my definition of a light recoiling rifle even with modest loads unless it weighs 10 lbs.......

Yep! Both the .35 Whelen and 9.3x62 are only "light-recoiling" compared to, say, the .340 Weatherby....

Funny, that at least in my case. Old age, old injuries, and a deteriorating physical ability were not needed for me to seek the greater comfort of less recoil and muzzle blast.

My advice begins with "get closer." The reason is, for any given bullet, the farther you shoot the faster your bullet has to leave the muzzle to retain velocity to expand when it arrives. The faster it's gotta start the more it's going to kick. The next item of advice, is either a heavier rifle, a brake, or a suppressor to reduce recoil. I think you can do just fine with a .270, 7mm-08, .280, .308, or '06 in a medium weight rifle if you manage the distance a bit, kill elk, and not get the hell kicked out of you. If you can't "get closer", then rethink where you're hunting. There is a way, just gotta find it.

Tom

Out of 6.5CM, 270, 308, 30/06 and 9.3 I always reach for The tikka 06, with limb saver, pushing 168 ttsx at 2950 as my main elk medicine.
The 270 with 130 ttsx at 3100+ fps is my back up when my daughter Is not carrying it.
Never felt under gunned, and recoil with limb saver is manageable where I can shoot couple boxes at the range with out a worry.
My 9.3 is in the classifieds

All good info guys. I especially like the Limbsaver recoil pads too!

I'm not a muzzle brake fan, but do have one, an Ed Brown Damara 300 Win Mag. The Damara is the light weight version of Ed's 704 actioned rifles.

Ed contends that his rifles with brakes shoot more accurately, especially the lighter weight ones with slender barrels. This Damara is a noisy SOB and I can understand why some Africa PH's, reportedly, don't like clients shooting guns with brakes. I tried my Damara with and without the brake. It stays, big difference. I had a piece of paper lying on my shooting bench not far from the muzzle. That thing shattered the paper into shreds. Amazing.

Noisy, but they do work.

DF

Yep! Both the .35 Whelan and 9.3x62 are only "light-recoiling" compared to, say, the .340 Weatherby....[/quote]

I've owned all of them, never found first two terrible to shoot. The 340 had a brake on it, gutted my scopes.! I once tried a 280 Remington necked up to 338. It made a beautiful round, was easy to shoot in the 9+ pound Mod 70 Super Grade, but the brass was nickel. I had so many split necks I abandoned it. I am seriously considering a JES rebore to 338/06 and "maybe" have a brake put on it. I have a wad of components.

I've had a 340 Wby and a .338 Win, both went down the road.

I do like the .338-06 and have a nice Mauser. It punches hard, but doesn't slap the shooter.

I don't think game can tell the difference. The big boomers have an advantage at longer ranges, but for average hunting distances, probably not so much.

Like our sage of wisdom from the North loves to say, "It's the boolit, not the headstamp".

Could be some truth there.

DF

One thing I've learned in using a 338 Win Mag load I got from Mule Deer, the amount of powder has, in my case a significant, an effect on the amount of recoil. Meaning to say, look at the loading manuals for whatever you choose and look for a powder that is max loaded at a noticeably lower charge weight. Might not give up that much performance, but will reduce recoil.

Back to my 338 experience, the 72gr 4350 loads recoiled noticeably more than the 65gr R15 loads. Never chronographed them, but according to the books I was only giving up 50fps with the lower recoiling load.

Just something to ponder on...

Your right Pointer...the 59gr/Speer 200 this rifle shot well and was very manageable. I really wanted to try the 225s in this rifle, at 338wm speeds though, and I never got there before my better judgement got to me, ha. I did get to work up a load of H4350/280 Hammers, but "groan"! ha. If I'm going to settle on 338/06 speeds that's what I'm going to go with, just for the sake of having a lighter/faster handling rifle for mixed cover, but with a good thump. Thanks guys!

I'm in the middle of a suppressed 7mm-08 build for precisely this reason. For what it's worth, I'd grab a Tikka T3x Lite, get the barrel shortened to 18" and threaded, add a suppressor, and dial it in with Barnes 120-grain TTSX. Plenty of power for elk within reasonable range and the recoil of a .243. Lots of good suggestions here, you'll find what works for you. Good luck!

I have had a SS T3x 06 since they first released that model. Extremely accurate with any sort of factory ammo but this year I noticed more recoil then ever. I Put a Limbsaver on it and it is back to normal.

9.3x57mm Mauser. Anything based on the 7mm Mauser case is lighter recoiling, and this round was developed for larger game at modest ranges. My 286gr load clears the muzzle at 2020 fps and work fine out to 200 yds or so. It could easily stretch on out to 300, but that's beyond its point blank range. My Husky model 46A Mauser weighs 6 lbs 14 ozs. It's not unpleasant to shoot from the bench

Haven't been that route yet. This fall I will be 76 my old .300 still lays them down.

Killed three cow elk with three shots with my 6.5x06 and three with my 30-06. There is no doubt in my mind my 6.5x55 with 140gr speer Hot Cores won't get the job done just as well with less recoil. Got a 250 Rem on the way I suspect will do the same. have never liked recoil! And well constructed well placed rifle bullet simply kill things!

My Church Deacon has a daughter who is small and weighs only 93 pounds, but is a real go-getter and wanted to hunt elk. So we conspired and he had me make an AR in 308 for her. AR308s are fairly heavy in the 1st place (most of the DPMS Patterns anyway) so I made the barrel 19" long and of a light weight contour. I used a long boring bar to take some weight out of the FF tube too. All together with a 10 round mag in it the rifle came out at 8 pounds 15 Oz. and the little girl carries it with no problems at all. I didn't get a picture of her and the elk, but I have these 2 of her with a WT doe and a mule deer buck.

She flops down on her belly and can hit my 6" steel gong at 300 yards, usually 10 out of 10. So a 12 year old skinny girl does just fine with such a riffle.

She doesn't mind a bit of weight but hates getting kicked. I have a large break on the muzzle and it takes the kick down a lot, as does the weight, and so does simply being an automatic. Shooting 165 grain bullets she has her rifle and feels she's good to go for anything from small antelope to elk. I have to agree. She's now 16 and in the last 4 years she'd helped to fill her family's freezer with deer, antelope and elk meat and took 2 shots on the buck deer in the pic, but all others have been 1 shot each.



IMG_1694 by .com/photos/156296479N08/]Steve Zihn, on [bleep]

KIMG0132~2 by .com/photos/156296479N08/]Steve Zihn, on [bleep]

You have plenty of rifle/cartridge recommendations.
I used to have phantom pain that moved around my body for no reason at all. Laugh at what I'm going to say, but I am PROOF! Eliminate GRAINS from your diet. All bread, pasta, corn, rice and even beer/wiskey. It must be 100%!! Eliminating 90% only gives you a 10% result. I go grain free for weeks and then I give in and have a piece of cake or a brownie (flour). The next day I will have joint pain for no reason in a joint. Once I ate 3 pcs of pizza, I had elbow pain for 3 days that felt like somebody was drilling into my elbow with a dull bit. I now know that I will go through the rest of my life w/o pizza. Try it for 30 days - let me know what you think. This is for joint pain only, I still have muscle pain if I split too much wood...

I’ve never killed an elk, but there seems like plenty of guys that kill them with 243’s.

No flies on the 25-06 for open country elk sniping. Feat happens with mine now and again. My ol' man pulled it off with his couple times back in the day when solid base bullets where forerunners of the ballistic tip bullets.

Just like any other scenario, shot placement...Less recoil makes more pleasant, accurate shooting.

I am gunna try to shoot an elk with a handed down sporterized 1917 Enfield 30-06 this fall. Nostalgia and I have yet to plug an elk with an 06' being the top reasons. The load that I am going to use is proving to be the real conundrum......

I know of a guy in Colorado that grew up with a 243 and used it on Elk apparently not aware it could not kill them.

They should have never let him out of the asylum.....

Half of Colorado resides there. The other half are adjusting lamps in their basement.

You know nothing of this man and his capabilities absolutely nothing.

In my rather modest career, been told I know nothing a few times.

Informers were either recent college graduates or 8th grade educated factory employees.

The only thing you shoot is your mouth.

One of the guys I hunt elk with has shot over 50 elk with a .243 and 100 grain partitions. I've shot several with either a .243 or 6mm with 90 grain accubonds, 95 grain ballistic tips or 100 grain partitions myself.

Elk aren't hard to kill except in fantasyland or if you're a pretend elk hunter from Iowa.

See.......more 8th-grade-educated input.........even after 5 years of early retirement.

My youngest nephew killed his first elk with my late grandfather's .243 with a 100 grain old style nosler solid base and 42 grains of imr 4350. One shot 368 yards...

Buzz........if the pics drop your estrogen levels.......we're all for it.

My friend that's killed 50+ elk has a PhD in electrical engineering and a masters in wildlife management. My other 3 guys I hunt with are an eye doctor who passed away a few years back, he killed piles of elk with his 25/06. Another of my camp had a PhD in nuclear physics and was an instructor at Madison WI. I hunted with him last year and he's fighting cancer, he shot a 7 RM. The other friend I hunt with has a masters in electrical engineering as well. I'm the least educated in that camp with a bachelor's in resource management.

Our camp are elk killers...

Buzz.......it's never fair when you're included in the pics. Makes the elk look bigger.

One of our ranchers used to kill elk with a .222.

Take out your notebook mikeweiner...

From left PhD in nuclear physics, PhD electrical engineering/masters wildlife, masters in electrical engineering, bachelor's computer science, and the guy behind the camera is me with my lowly bachelor's.

Combined in that picture, including the photographer, we've shot close to 300 elk. Top it... 🤡

They have no trouble getting elk killed...with .243's, 25/06, 7 RM...whatever.

Wow.....many geniuses, BuzzH.

Mathman is a genius too. When he finally convinces his students to call him 'Professor'........they move them on to the third grade.

Never a fan of six-sigma.........but have you even corresponded with an elk hunter that had 3 errors per million touches, over a 3 year period?

You are special, Buzz.

Testosterone supplements may be warranted.

Last thing we need is a Ruth BuzzH.

Buzz ignore his posts or put him on ignore. He has some issues.

Your insecurities are duly noted mikeweiner...got the 50 BMG all ready to hunt cows in 7?

You know, those cow elk are nearly armor plated up there.

Is that the typical Biden-supporter response?

Great choice of words.......stay away from "short" comings.

Biden 2024.......right, Buzz?

Actually, currently tinkering on a .338 721 converted to left hand, by Guise.

But, we'll spare you the technical stuff.

Hey dummy...Remington manufactured left handed actions.

Buzz, Buzz, Buzz.......we have a couple left hand rifles. Rest assured, little guy.

The Guise left hand 721 conversion was bought for a song at a gun shop in Mountain Home, ID. My oldest son (of 5 sons) lives there.

Had a cheesy 60's stock with the flared pistol grip......a peep sight......side mount with a stith 4x post.

LH bolt, right hand ejection port. Converted LH safety.

Took the port chunk from the right side of the synthetic stock and pinned/expoxied to the left side.

Do you understand so far? My third LH .338, but who is counting?

Ain't no tanger safety 77, but we trying.

2 of 5 sons are southpaws.....and all 5 are Trump supporters.

Before the experts chime in....we know all about being exposed to gases with the right hand ejection port.

Handloader since 1979.......Ill make it do whatever I want.