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Have an 1895 Chilean with COC, I really like it


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Originally Posted by UpThePole
Cock on closing was the brilliant invention of some lost to time inventor.

It reduces the amount of effort on primary extraction to 1/2 that of cock on opening.

Perhaps most famous in the SMLE where the WW I Germans thought every Tommy had a machine gun.

As much as everyone loves the Mauser, the SMLE was a far superior battle rifle.

COO conversions are far too often a mess as well as unnecessary.

The most brilliant "modern" bolt action, Schultz & Larsen also split the effort because they knew a COO with a 45 degree bolt lift was a bad idea. Also like the SMLE they have rear locking lugs that shorten the bolt throw.

We know what action Roy picked for the first 378 BEEs, don't we ? Slicker than greased kitty litter !


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How do you adjust windage/elevation with that setup? That looks like a B&L Balvar scope but I don’t see the adjustable bases that are normally used.


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I have a DT kit sitting here for about 20 years. I never installed it on the Scout Swed. :-)

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Last edited by richj; 09/14/22.
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The Schultz & Larsen are so straight you don't need any adjustment :-)

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Do they make a COO kit for Arisaka rifles?

Last edited by Jericho; 09/14/22.
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Originally Posted by Gaschekt
The logical thing to do is keep both on hand. The 17" bayonet on the front of a SMLE might be useful if conditions deteriorate enough or if those pigs keep coming. The 10 round SMLE must have been something going against a 5 round mauser.

A moot point, considering that most casualties occurred via machine gun, disease, and artillery.


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"How do you adjust windage/elevation with that setup? That looks like a B&L Balvar scope but I don’t see the adjustable bases that are normally used."

The one shortcoming of the M 54 S&L is that it was designed before huge turret scopes. When one is used the empty hits the turret and may fall back in the action.

The BalVar 8 removes that chance and is a fine optic even today. That one is a rare one with tapered CH and a small dot.

The Mounts are S&K which have opposing screws on each base so windage is easy.

Initially it was about 10" high, so a small shim under the rear base brought it to 3" high as JOC suggested.

You do have to pick a load and stick with it.

Last edited by UpThePole; 09/14/22.

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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Originally Posted by Gaschekt
The logical thing to do is keep both on hand. The 17" bayonet on the front of a SMLE might be useful if conditions deteriorate enough or if those pigs keep coming. The 10 round SMLE must have been something going against a 5 round mauser.

A moot point, considering that most casualties occurred via machine gun, disease, and artillery.

Aussies are killing their pigs with machine guns, disease, and artillery?

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Originally Posted by gnoahhh
Originally Posted by Gaschekt
The logical thing to do is keep both on hand. The 17" bayonet on the front of a SMLE might be useful if conditions deteriorate enough or if those pigs keep coming. The 10 round SMLE must have been something going against a 5 round mauser.

A moot point, considering that most casualties occurred via machine gun, disease, and artillery.
I happened to have been considering the difference in fire power between the SMLE and the German Mauser, and in a broader sense their handling characteristics when under duress. Funny I've never heard anyone else say that the 10 round magazine of SMLE was a moot point. I'll bet the Germans were wondering when those British rifles were ever going to run out of ammunition.

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When the M98 was designed for COO, the rear of the bolt body was thicken to provide a wide spiral cut cocking ramp to lessen the risk of galling and premature cocking ramp wear. Something to consider when converting a COC bolt to COO.

See pg 100 of Jerry Kuhnhausen's The Mauser Bolt Actions, a shop manual for more technical/mechanical details on why he does not recommend the conversion.

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Originally Posted by Gaschekt
The logical thing to do is keep both on hand. The 17" bayonet on the front of a SMLE might be useful if conditions deteriorate enough or if those pigs keep coming. The 10 round SMLE must have been something going against a 5 round mauser.

I do have a Pattern '07 bayonet for my SMLE (a bayonet whose design was lifted wholesale from that of the Arisaka of 1905). With a good team of dogs the bayonet can be used quite effectively to kill wild pigs, even without the rifle, or so I've found.

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I prefer coc, wasn’t a huge fan of it in my first rifle (7.7-06 Arisaka), but I’ve come around. I’ve owned 7 coc rifles (3 arisakas, 2 2A1, 1 1917, 1 1891 Mauser) and 12 coo rifles (2 98 style, 1 88/05/35, 1 Mosin, 6 carcanos, 2 vetterlis) that I can recall, and that’s not even getting into the various 22’s I can’t remember. The vetterlis get a pass because they’re stupidly smooth, but 90% of the time I’d rather have a coc because I regularly smack that bolt home hard, and the transition the spring provides feels nicer than the abrupt stop of a coo action.

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I have a 1893 Spanish Ovideo mauser 7x57 and a 1917 Eddystone 30-06 both coc. Not gonna fix what isn't broke they are fine the way they are....mb


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I'm admittedly COC prejudiced (Duh - Ya think! :)) Yet most of my bolts are COO since particularly in sporting context, such the way of the world in respect of my primary interests through the seventies era and again in the nineties in context of the FN production era of Winchester Classic CRF line. The COO or COC really does come down to personal preference/prejudice.

A short side note concerning the Schultz & Larsen rifle mentioned above. A Danish firm making high quality rifles as unable to achieve the production numbers to be competitive in the American market as principally targeted in the fifties under Phil Sharpe as importer or the sixties under the mighty Norma Precision Firm backing. The S&L, An expensive rifle of aft lug locking design and even to date perhaps moved from largely "unknown" to largely "past era exotic". The first models of the fifties were COC, a transitional model and wrapping with two COO models in sixties era.

With the milsurp market of the American fifties, the COC action was established as 'almost exclusively' associated with military design and surplus context. The interwar Remington Model 30 earlier years were the proliferant COC design featuring the civilianized Model 17 Enfield action. To my tastes, great rifles. The S&L were exotically partially hand-crafted, of great quality of materials and workmanship. I congratulate anyone owning one! I have five, all acquired as "also ran unknowns" and such prices reflected!

Thanks those of you who put up with another dissertation! smile
Best!
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fine minds think alike, I've owned a 1917 and a SMLE along with other COO rifles and never was bothered.

Balvar 8 in windage adjustable mounts, slight shim for elevation, 22-250 and dotes on 52gr Speers

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Last edited by erich; 09/15/22.

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Originally Posted by iskra
I'm admittedly COC prejudiced (Duh - Ya think! :)) Yet most of my bolts are COO since particularly in sporting context, such the way of the world in respect of my primary interests through the seventies era and again in the nineties in context of the FN production era of Winchester Classic CRF line. The COO or COC really does come down to personal preference/prejudice.

A short side note concerning the Schultz & Larsen rifle mentioned above. A Danish firm making high quality rifles as unable to achieve the production numbers to be competitive in the American market as principally targeted in the fifties under Phil Sharpe as importer or the sixties under the mighty Norma Precision Firm backing. The S&L, An expensive rifle of aft lug locking design and even to date perhaps moved from largely "unknown" to largely "past era exotic". The first models of the fifties were COC, a transitional model and wrapping with two COO models in sixties era.

With the milsurp market of the American fifties, the COC action was established as 'almost exclusively' associated with military design and surplus context. The interwar Remington Model 30 earlier years were the proliferant COC design featuring the civilianized Model 17 Enfield action. To my tastes, great rifles. The S&L were exotically partially hand-crafted, of great quality of materials and workmanship. I congratulate anyone owning one! I have five, all acquired as "also ran unknowns" and such prices reflected!

Thanks those of you who put up with another dissertation! smile
Best!
John

Good points John. However, I don't know if it is exactly "personal preference". My actual preference is to the newer rifles with COO. But when it comes to my favorite m1917, I'd rather people just leave them alone and leave the COC feature. Sure, change the crappy trigger to a Timney sportsman, like I've done a dozen times. That is a necessity, not just personal preference there, but a damn necessity!!!!! Now, I grew up with a COC sporter m1917 and I got used to it. They work great, but do I prefer it over a Winchester model 70 pre 64 or Classic? Not hardly. My m1917 with COO works perfectly and it feeds better than any Model 70 I have in the safe. There's beauty in that for sure. My BSA model E 308 Norma also feeds well, but it retains the original COC feature. It works great. Guys that have never had one, can't appreciate it..


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I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
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Originally Posted by Poconojack
Have an 1895 Chilean with COC, I really like it
My first rifle was a 1895 Chilean, I got used to the cock on close, I'm good either way!

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Why did Mauser change?

Bruce

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