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I have been on a quest for a good "+P" .38 Special load. Most published data that I've found is mostly for 110 gr bullets. I wanted to find something that would safely push a 158 gr LSWC through a 4 inch barrel with a muzzle velocity at or greater than 950 FPS. Most data that I have seen, if you read the small print, use 7 inch or such unrealistically long test barrels, and for the most part I'm sure without any cylinder gap. This is just not reality. My .38s and .357s have 4 inch and 2 inch barrels. I am quite sure this is also the case with 75%+ of those that exist. The following loads are what I have come up with that were shot with my S&W M-19 .357 with a 4 inch barrel: All bullets were coated lead 158 gr SWCs and velocities are the average of multiple shots of each loading. Brass is mixed .38 Special. There were no signs of over pressure seen. The fired brass was easily re-inserted into the chambers, no leading, and no deformed primers.

4.3 gr. Titegroup - CCI SP primer - 906 FPS
5.0 gr. Universal - CCI SP primer - 916 FPS
5.2 gr. Unique - CCI SP primer - 957 FPS
5.4 gr. CFE Pistol - WSP primer - 890 FPS
6.7 gr. Vihtavori 3N37-WSP primer - 1007 FPS

I was particularly impressed with the Vihtavori 3N37 load as it produced by far the best velocity. While VV does not list any .38 Spl +P loads per se, this was their max published load using this powder and a 158 gr. Hornady XTP bullet. Unfortunately, they do not list any pressures with their data. I surmised that by using the same weight bullet and it being a coated lead instead of a jacketed bullet, the pressure should be a bit less and therefore safe to use this data. They also list a higher powder charge of 6.9 gr. for a 158 gr. copper plated bullet, so again I felt comfortable with the 6.7 gr. powder charge I tested with my coated lead SWCs. While I really cannot say what the actual pressure of this load is, maybe the pressure level really doesn't get into "+P" territory? The velocity certainly does and I am quite comfortable that pressure is not excessive. JMHO,YMMV


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You’ve got room to go up on the Unique load IMO, as long as you’re using modern revolvers. My standard load is 5.5 under a 158-170gr SWC and I’ve been known to take it up to 6.0gr in my N frames.

Good info though, thanks.

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Thanks for the info about your Unique load. Good info to be had.


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I would not consider your Unique load a +P load.

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IIRC, a long time ago a series of test was posted.It might have even been by Big Stick.It stated in a 2-3 " revolver with .357 std loads, produced about the same velocities as a std 38 sp load in a longer barrel. My J frame 66 pretty much confirmed that


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Plenty of room with Hodgdon Longshot and +P 38's. If you need more horsepower within pressure limits, 2400 has been there since it's inception.

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IMHO placement is far more important than a few FPS in a .38 load.


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If one is inclined to inflict significant harm load the linked bullets upside down.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/hornad...148-gr-hollow-base-wadcutter-250-bo.html


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Originally Posted by DigitalDan
If one is inclined to inflict significant harm load the linked bullets upside down.

https://www.opticsplanet.com/hornad...148-gr-hollow-base-wadcutter-250-bo.html


Those soft swaged bullets lead the bore terribly when pushed over 850 fps. Sometimes they upon up like a huge hollowpoint, which then greatly limits penetration. In this case the wound path is good, just shallow. Sometimes the front cavity pinches inward and folds into itself and they bore a small hole through. The backwards wadcutters were sorta a thing in the 70's and maybe early 80's. With more experience they seem to be a no-go thing in modern times. Lot's of experienced guys will load a hardcast wadcutter flat face on and even at standard 850 fps velocities they are surprisingly effective. That load is available in factory loads from Buffalo Bore and Underwood.


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Our experiences do not align. They never leaded nor failed to wreak mayhem. 3.0 gr Bullseye from a 2” snubby. Primary targets were big toothy fish that did not want to spit my lures out. They will decapitate a 5’ cuda and render 6-7’ sharks dead still...one shot. At any rate, the average heart/lung is only a very few inches behind the ribs. Guts are just below the skin as are kneecaps. Skulls aren’t that thick. Screw 2 holes and tracking.


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I mostly used the Speer product. Might be that the Speer was softer, the lube different, ect. I know I pushed them faster than what you were probably getting from your 2" Chief's Special. Speaking of shooting fish... I have a buddy that has a private lake with an over abundance of very large carp and tons of turtles. I have permission to fish but also have standing orders to shoot every turtle or carp I get a chance at. One time I was fishing for bluegill in a shallow cove and watched a half dozen of those big carp slowly ease into the cove. They were like whales or something, the drifted along and occasionally surfaced and seemed to suck something off the surface of the water. I was packing a 4" M19 S&W .357 with handloads of the old Speer 146 gr. half jacket hollowpoint stoked by a charge of #2400. I didn't have a chronograph back then but the load manual said I should have been getting about 1,300 fps from my 4". I waited until the angle was just right and I hammered one of those carp just behind the eyes and center of the head. At the shot the carp just rolled over and sank. The water was shallow and I could see that I didn't blow that carp's head off like I expected. I waded out and recovered that dude and was shocked to see the base of the bullet flush with the scales on the head. I plucked that perfectly expanded hollowpoint out of that carps head with my fingers! I still think that was strange bullet performance.


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The impact may have been greatly slowed by water. A difficult medium to penetrate.

I've shot a bit of swagged lead bullets including the Speer product. Not enough at once to have any conclusion about leading as compared to cast. I think the Speer can usually withstand greater velocity than the Hornady one's. I try to keep them for mild loads.

Apparently from what I've read. 357mag brass was scarce way back when. Many scribes of the day including Keith, Skelton, and Taffin loaded 38spl brass to magnum strength for use in magnum revolvers. If I had the brass, I'd be more inclined to download magnum cases for less jump to the rifling.

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I wish Speer would use their plating process to replicate that old bullet.


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EarlyA - I considered that. I doubt the bullet penetrated more than 3"-4" of water before impacting the fish head. Probably that had something to do with it, I'm guessing those great big scales on that mega carp are pretty tough. But I expected a much more graphic terminal effect.


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Originally Posted by LongSpurHunter
I would not consider your Unique load a +P load.


Hmm. Seems most loading manuals would disagree with that. Just looked in four that I have in front of me. Ain't happening.

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I have a bunch of those swaged speer 158g hpswc bullets. I need to work up a load for the 38 spc lcr that will work in my 2" 360 pd and 3" sp101. I'd like to get it to over 850 fps in the 2" guns but be under 950 in the 3".

I have some universal that I'm not using for anything else so I thought about starting with it at about 5g. I'd like to move them fast enough to expand but avoid leading problems. I have lots of other powders. What's a good 38 load with the swaged speer? When the local shop closed them out at half price I stocked up.

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In a modern revolver such as a Ruger of S&M H-110/296 could easily push a 158 grain hardcadt or jacketed any where from 1050 to 1200 FPS



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http://smith-wessonforum.com/reloading/91534-duplicating-buffalo-bore-fbi-load.html

This link is an interesting read about duplicating Buffalo Bore's 38 Special +P "FBI load" (158 grain lead SWCHP 38 Special +P). Buffalo Bore (and these tested loads) generated these muzzle velocities: 2" barrel = 1040 fps, and 4" barrel = 1160 fps.

Note: no loads were pressure tested. (neither Buffalo Bore factory load, nor any reloads). MV may have been duplicated, but no pressure testing was done.

+P+ level for reloads???


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Starline has .38 Special brass today. They are out of stock on the +p head stamp .38 Special


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Originally Posted by jwp475
In a modern revolver such as a Ruger of S&M H-110/296 could easily push a 158 grain hardcadt or jacketed anywhere from 1050 to 1200 FPS

1200 FPS? Based on my reloading manuals and online loads I gotta raise the BS flag on that!

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