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gerry35 Offline OP
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I tried this on the a Ask the Gunwriters forum a few days ago but it is so busy there that it dissapeared before you could see it. I would like to know how you would rate the 35 Whelen for hunting coastal grizzlies in the fall along the salmon spawning creeks? I will always have a Whelen but I have been wanting a 358 Norma as well mostly for grizzly. Would a 250 gr bullet travelling 250 fps faster than the Whelen be that much better? Also will the heavyweights like the 310 gr Woodleigh or 280 gr Swift be better than say a 250 gr Nosler in the Whelen? If there is not much difference in the killing power between the two cartridges then I will give up on the 358 Norma.


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zxc Offline
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I am not Phill or a gun writer, but I have a lot of experience with the 35whelen on large animals. My whelen will run a 250FXB between 2400 and 2680fps depending on the charge. The only differance I could detect is ranging ability, the faster load has an extended PBR. This should not be an issue with your proposed use. On game performance at 2400fps or 2600+ is equally awesome. The norma comes , normally comes in a heavier, longer rifle, the belted short mag does not load as slick. The whelen loads slick like a 375HH, does not need a long barrel to perform and with the 250 barnes X, 225gr are only available now, bullet weight is not compromised at impact. All the bullet has to do is penetrate and stay together, a g bear or any other animal is skin bone and muscle, the whelen will pentrate and smash bone. Once I shot a large moose at 325m, 250x at 2450fps, smashed large bones major tissue damage, did not recover bullet. Your grizz will not no the diffearance between the two, I say this after 30+ head of big, big game.

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A 35 Whelen with a 310 gr. Woodleigh is all you will ever need for about anything...I use the 300 gr. .338 Woodleigh and have killed Cape Buffalo with it...It kills bison quickly.

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Guess I don't need to reply as Ray and Furprick pretty well summed it up.

The 35 Whelen with the 250 Partitions is a great cartridge for big bears anywhere. If your rifle shoots them well the 280 Swifts or 310 Woodleighs might be a bit better.

I prefer the Whelen over the Norma simply because of commonly avaliable brass and a greater magazine capacity. On the biggest bears I have never been able to tell that an extra 100 or 200 fps made any difference.


Phil Shoemaker
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www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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gerry35 Offline OP
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Furprick, Ray and Phil thank you for answering my question. I think I can let go of the 358 Norma now. From what the 3 of you and other knowledgeable riflemen have also said I guess there isn't much difference between the 338 win, 35 whelen, 358 norma at the close ranges bears are usually shot. My whelen holds 6 rounds with one up the spout which is a comfort in the thick brush. Now I just have to draw another tag.


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I have used the 250 Std Speer on big bodied Bull Moose 3 and have yet 2 recover a bullet 2450 FPS. Used the Std 250 Speer on a 6' Black Bear this Fall with a 35 Whln. Imp. 2580 FPS. Penetrated neck & out heart. Would not be concerned using either rifle with either the Nosler Part 250 or Speer GS older style or older 250 Speer Std. on big bear. Bullet placement is everything.


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gerrygoat, on the premise that a person can not have too many guns or experiences, for your situation other 06 based mediums would be fun to experiment with. I am going 9.3mm in a sako, i know I won't notice much differance than the whelen, if any, but it keeps my interest level up. Over the years i have basically gone away from " magnum " cartridges. I find the mediums are excellant at putting game down and on the deer sized game it is hard to beat a 6.5 or 270.

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gerry35 Offline OP
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Furprick, I like the the same class of cartridges as you do. The 9.3's interest me as well I have suggested the 9.3x62 to my main hunting buddy but so far he hasn't bitten on it. I too am a big 6.5mm fan as well. Out of curiosity how is it finding 9.3x66 ammo and brass?


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The canadian importer has all you want, Stoeger (sp) I am getting everything through Ominica sports in vanderhoof, good people to deal with, brass is $32/20 Sako headstamped ready to load, bullets are not an issue and the factory load uses VV550 which is available. Dies are around $160-170. As well I like the 6.5x55. Had the whelen a long time looking for a good quality rifle in S/S I think the Sako is that rife. Probably my last gun purchase, i will keep the 6.5, the 3006 and the 9.3, will sell the whelen and a 375HH in a rem 700C.

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To me the reason to go to the 358 Norma is to push the 270 gr Northforks or 280 gr A-frames 2500-2600 fps. To me that's even steven with the 375 H&H regarding same sd's at the same velocity.

I can't see going heavier than 250 grs in the whelen as "premium" bullets offer plenty of penetration, and I wouldn't want to be launching them at 2200-2300 fps. If a 250 gr X, northfork or a-frame at 2400-2500 fps doesn't do the trick, it wasn't the bullets fault.

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The only reason to go to the 358 Norma


Is because you want a 358 Norma. It is a great round for Alaska.


Phil Shoemaker
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Alaska Hunter Ed Instructor
FAA Master pilot
www.grizzlyskinsofalaska.com

Anyone who claims the 30-06 is not effective has either not used one, or else is unwittingly commenting on their marksmanship.
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Originally Posted by gerrygoat
how you would rate the 35 Whelen for hunting coastal grizzlies in the fall


As the guy said, I ain't Phil, but your question can be looked at in a couple of ways. The first is simply straitforward as asked. Nothing in my experience with my Whelen (my primary hunting rifle)causes me to hesitate about using it for the coastal bears, I prefer Hornady 250 gr rn bullets, but that's just because they've always worked well for me.

The other way to look at your question is "Is the Norma a better bear stopper than a Whelen?" The answer to that is also NO. Neither is a bear stopping caliber, so the same precision of bullet placement from each would be required to drop a bear, any bear, in its tracks.

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I have not shot any grizzly with my Whelen, but I have shot a couple of black bears and one moose (at 410 yds). I prefer the 225 gr. bullet for the Whelen for general use, but would go with the 250 for brown/griz if it were me. My handloads can usually get a easy 2500 fps with most any 250 gr. bullet, which is plenty, in my experience.

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I love the 9.3x62 round, it's just a 375 H&H because it's on steriods! It holds a weeks worth of ammo, works in a std. length action and I can get an easy 2550 FPS with a 286 Nosler and near 2400 FPS with a 320 gr. Woodleigh...I feel like it really outperforms the Whelen, but wouldn't swear to it, you get a lot of pre determined ideas when you use any caliber successufully over a period of time and I have had such good luck with the 9.3x62 that I may be a bit prejudice on the subject...

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What twist rate is generally recommend for the Whelen?


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1-12.


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Either 1-12 or 1-14. A 1-14 will stabalize evertything 250 gr and under, and is a bit friendlier for cast bullets. It'll also stabalize the lyman 3589 ~280 gr cast bullet just fine.

Remington went with a 1-16 twist that is marginal for 250 gr bullets.

My 35 whelen acklety (now a 350 Rigby) was/is 1-14, my 350 rem mag is 1-12, both will put 3 shots well under 1"

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Thanks, aheider and 458Lott

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2-8-08

Glad to have found this thread. I was trying to decide what caliber would find a home in my newly acquired left hand 98 Mauser action. My experience with a steel BLR in 358W has been great with whitetails, but I wanted a little more for elk and moose. Performance of those 250 Speers in the BLR on a Texas Heart Shot convinced me that 35's are real performers. Did not recover the slug.

It came down to a 35 Whelen or a 9.3X6...and after reading this thread it still is a 35 Whelen or 9.3X62!! As a Keith fan I love those "heavy for caliber" bullets but am no fan of magnum level recoil. (I shoot 2-3/4" turkey loads too.) So either of these rifle rounds fit the bill nicely. The Whelen has better sectional density at comparable bullet weights, but I am not so sure it is really a good predictor of penetration. Momentum and expansion seem more realistic indicators.

Can anyone give me one overriding reason to choose the 9.3? Performance-wise, I doubt it, but give it a try.

I can always apply my sure-fire formula in the end. I l have the same fondness for the 6.5's others have expressed here and I chose the 6.5 X 64 Brenneke (6.5X270) over the 6.5X55 or 6.5/06 because the performance is close/identical respectively, and it is different enough that no one else at the range has one.

Looks like the only argument that will defeat the "uniqueness" test is the cheap '06 brass and usability of relatively inexpensive std. Speer 250's.

It's still a dead heat in my mind.

Roger

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If the majority of your hunting is deer sized game i would chose the 35W , as it is very flexible with many bullet choices, and will do for the largest animals. If moose/ elk in g-bear country the 9.3 would get the nod. in reality you would not find much differance between the two. As stated earlier in this topic I was going to sell my whelen, changed my mind and sold the 375 and the 6.5 swede, will keep 3006 wheln and have a 9.3x66sako on the way.

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