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I use the factory crimp die on all Revolver and Lever action cartridges.I also use it in my Dillon 550 set up for 223.I have never seen it to make a cartridge more inaccurate.


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In my experience if your rifle ammunition needs a crimp nothing beats a Lee Factory Crimp(the collet model). Just don’t use too much. I think a lot of negative experiences with the FCD come from over generous application. In handgun ammo I’m not a fan of the carbide Lee FCD. I suppose it’s good enough for making range pickup mixed brass into functional reloads with jacketed bullets. But it often compresses the cartridge enough to alter bullet diameter which is not very conducive to accuracy especially with cast bullets. I’ve found RCBS both Taper and Roll Crimp dies to have the best geometry for accurate handloads in handgun cartridges. They don’t alter bullet diameter like the carbide FCD and even the Redding Profile Crimp do and they provide an excellent smooth uniform crimp on the bullet.

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Originally Posted by Huntz
I use the factory crimp die on all Revolver and Lever action cartridges.I also use it in my Dillon 550 set up for 223.I have never seen it to make a cartridge more inaccurate.

Strangely enough, I have seen the FCD make ammunition more accurate. Specifically, shooting 5.56 match loads in my AR I had been experiencing erratic groups. Sometimes it would shoot great, other times rather poorly. Finally, I had pulled a cartridge out of the chamber. The cannelure looked strange to me. Further inspection revealed the COAL had grown to well over 2.30"! It had been seated to AR's typically 2.250". I decided to let the bolt slide into battery on a few more and then extract them. COAL varied wildly. As it turned out, as the cases were fired and trimmed multiple times, the necks grew thin and thus had reduced neck tension such that the grip on the bullet wasn't what it once was. The LEE FCD indeed improved accuracy and precision. I know, probably not what you meant but I thought it was worth sharing.


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drop point,

Just curious, were the necks of the cases you mention ever annealed?


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I loaded some shells that were not sized properly. I was going to pull the bullets, save and powder and resize them. Then reload them. I used the Lee Factory Crimp Die. I cannot get the bullets pulled. I used a Cam-lock puller, a kinetic puller, and still can't get the bullets out. What should I do? I got about 100 of these.

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Originally Posted by FWP
Originally Posted by Jason280
No idea on overbores, but I couldn't find any difference with 77gr SMKs over TAC in 5.56 loads.


I had read a lot of positive posts on another site about the 5.56 crimp die. I decided to try one and I purchased the Lee.

I took a very good load that shot well and loaded up some rounds finishing them off with the factory crimp die. I then shot it in a very tight shooting rifle. The groups opened up significantly.

To be sure it was not a fluke I took a second load and did the same thing. Those groups opened up.

I have not used the die since then.


After reading about others' success with the crimp die I am tempted to go back and retest the loads I shot. I'm thinking if I try different crimp tension I might get better results.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
drop point,

Just curious, were the necks of the cases you mention ever annealed?

Yes, every few firings. That was in the days of doing them with a torch by hand. These days I have a machine and anneal all my brass every firing.


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Whenever I start loading a new bullet/powder combo in any of my guns I test a small lot with and without crimping. This allows me to determine the most accurate load. Some like it, some don't. I will always crimp heavy recoiling cartridges in leverguns and pistols if I'm concerned about them locking up from cartridge growth.


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Originally Posted by Dixie_Dude
I loaded some shells that were not sized properly. I was going to pull the bullets, save and powder and resize them. Then reload them. I used the Lee Factory Crimp Die. I cannot get the bullets pulled. I used a Cam-lock puller, a kinetic puller, and still can't get the bullets out. What should I do? I got about 100 of these.

I had that problem with some 7MMs. Could not pull them any conventional way until I seated them a little deeper, breaking the bond between the bullet and case. Pulled them with ease using an RCBS collet puller. Mine were not crimped but I would certainly try it.

Dennis.


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Originally Posted by BustemAgain
In my experience if your rifle ammunition needs a crimp nothing beats a Lee Factory Crimp(the collet model). Just don’t use too much. I think a lot of negative experiences with the FCD come from over generous application. In handgun ammo I’m not a fan of the carbide Lee FCD. I suppose it’s good enough for making range pickup mixed brass into functional reloads with jacketed bullets. But it often compresses the cartridge enough to alter bullet diameter which is not very conducive to accuracy especially with cast bullets. I’ve found RCBS both Taper and Roll Crimp dies to have the best geometry for accurate handloads in handgun cartridges. They don’t alter bullet diameter like the carbide FCD and even the Redding Profile Crimp do and they provide an excellent smooth uniform crimp on the bullet.




That's why I have an extra FCD with the carbide ring removed for desired over-sized diameters.


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I was loading up some 30-06 for my dad with some old brass. After the first few, it was clear the neck tension was all over the place, I decided to crimp them, rather than deprime and anneal.

He shoots 1-2 rounds per year, including making sure his scope is on, and at Bambi from around 50 yards. As long as he can hit a paper plate, and the bullet doesn’t fall out - I’m happy.

Otherwise the only rifle crimping I do is for 30-30.

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In my experience, reloaders who anneal regularly have fewer problems with varying neck tension. This, in turn, keeps group sizes down. I think that most reloaders do not anneal at all. They will notice changes to their groups as they use their brass more and more because the brass work hardens.

Case necks harden at slightly different rates - especially if you throw all your brass together. Some cases may not have the same number of firings, or have loads that developed varying pressures. Often, different lots of brass are mixed together. This too will cause variations.

I believe that crimping lessens, but does not eliminate, differences in neck tension that affect accuracy.

In my sampling, crimping did not help. The uncrimped group size was approximately 22 % smaller. I believe that it was because the brass was freshly annealed. For want of a better term, the annealed brass was all the same temper. I will not crimp for this rifle, unless I use compressed loads.

It certainly cannot hurt to test your rifle to see if crimping affects group size. A better solution however would be to anneal, in my opinion.


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I guess to each their own. I use them in 7-08, 270 and 30-06. I've found a slight increase in accuracy but not much.

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In the instance I was referring to, it wasn't lack of annealing, but repeated firing causing the necks to flow forward requiring trimming. It could have been remedied using smaller and smaller bushings to maintain adequate neck tension to keep the bullet from coming unseated from the inertia of the BCG slamming forward to an abrupt stop. However, better consistency with crimping may be better in certain situation such as semi-automatics or lever-actions.

I wouldn't even consider as such for a bolt-action.


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Damn. Here or other forums, these Lee FCD's sure get alot of attention, either good or bad. I use them with no issues for my hangun ammo and my 30-30[Mod 94].
Set up properly, they simply work as advertised.

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Originally Posted by drop_point
In the instance I was referring to, it wasn't lack of annealing, but repeated firing causing the necks to flow forward requiring trimming. It could have been remedied using smaller and smaller bushings to maintain adequate neck tension to keep the bullet from coming unseated from the inertia of the BCG slamming forward to an abrupt stop. However, better consistency with crimping may be better in certain situation such as semi-automatics or lever-actions.

I wouldn't even consider as such for a bolt-action.

Yes, thickening case necks is another consideration that is the result of repeated firings. I agree that for bolt actions, there are other, better options. Lee originally designed this crimp die for hunting rifles, as I recall. I mailed them with questions, and that was part of their response. I did not specifically ask about work hardened brass however.

Trying to get a consistent crimp on different pieces of work hardened brass is virtually impossible. I use it only for compressed loads and my levers.

Edited to add: This is the response I got about crimping when I was writing my 30-303 book.

Hello Stephen,

Yes, crimping has been tested. Crimping serves two purposes. The first and better known reason is to lock the bullet in position in the case (for compressed loads or hard recoiling rifles – Steve).

The second and lessor known reason is to uniform the start pressure of the cartridge. The start pressure is the pressure at which the bullet begins to move in the case. If the bullet begins to move at the same pressure from each cartridge this will result in a more uniform powder burn and acceleration of the bullet down the barrel. This results in the bullets leaving the barrel with less velocity deviation from one cartridge from the next. The smaller velocity deviation is the smaller the group size will be on the target.

Many bench rest and target shooters control start pressure by loading the cartridge to an overall length that places the bullet very close to or even in contact with the rifling. This type of ammunition is generally finger fed into the firearm.

Loading like this is not always possible in all firearms and situations. There are limits to how long the cartridge can be and still fit in the magazine, or feed through the action of the firearm. Crimping the cartridge mimics loading close to the rifling and results in greater accuracy in firearms that limits to the overall length of the cartridge the gun will accept.Testing your own ammunition is easy. Load some ammunition with your pet load recipe. Then crimp 1/2 of the cartridges. The crimped ammunition will almost always out perform the ammunition that has not been crimped. I frequently get comments from the field of small shot groups that have gotten smaller when the shooter crimped their ammunition.

Thanks.

---


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Appreciate you sharing the response you got, Steve.


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Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
In my experience, reloaders who anneal regularly have fewer problems with varying neck tension.

This^^^

Also, light neck tension can improve accuracy, but of course that's a non-starter for hunting ammo.

Since I've been using LCD dies, I sand down the mandrels to get the neck tension I want. Neck tension can vary a bunch between different brands and different production runs of brass. when using the same die. Consequently, I have lots of mandrels for my LCD's.


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Originally Posted by flintlocke
I did a home brewed test with a weird unpopular cartridge, the .30-06, chrono'd 20 rds crimped, 20 rds neck fit...my velocity spreads almost dropped to half with the Lee FCD. So, guessing, I'd say somebody that doesn't want to fiddle with uniforming neck tension can make better loads with.
I use a Lee FCD on all of my 30-06 loads. New RCBS dies have a built in crimp but I have an older set of 30-06 dies so I use the crimp die. I don't have a chrono so I can't tell you if it affects velocity. I find my 30-06 dies nicely accurate so I keep crimping them. I do use the built in crimper option on all of my new dies. In .223 ammo that is going into a semi auto, I like a bit of crimp.

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Last edited by kwg020; 09/18/22.

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I've been using the Lee factory crimp dies for longer than I can remember. I use them on every caliber I load rifle and pistol. The consistent accuracy I achieve is proof enough for me.

The sad truth is most people use them wrong and blame the die for the problems they have created. The case is not supposed to be crushed, the crimp isn't supposed to be deep. Look at new crimped factory ammo and attempt to duplicate what you see. A little kiss is all that's really necessary nothing more than a light touch to tighten the neck. Where most people go wrong is by using too much pressure and once the bullet is swaged accuracy disappears. It will also increase the initial pressure further reducing accuracy especially if an overall length gauge isn't used to set the correct ogive depth. The longer the distance is from the bullets ogive to the throat the more chance the bullet has to skew which it will absolutely do if over pressurized.


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