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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by alwaysoutdoors
Hair pieces are loved by Boomers all over the US

Extra points for each eye going a different direction.

He must be a “Corsair.”


Ahh, that's just wrong....LOL

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Originally Posted by irfubar
I figured out this guy was full of schit 20 yrs ago...


1Glocks isn't going to like you now.



I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
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Originally Posted by Bluedreaux
The very last person I'll take use of force advice from in an employee of an insurance company.

LOL. In use of force situations, dead insureds are probably cheaper for liability insurers, as opposed to life insurers. Please continue to adeptly sling those flippant remarks, as appropriate.


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Some people in the “business” of being an expert witness in court have oversize egos. They think they are the smartest guy in the room, and many accept them as such. Ayoob is in that category. He can be very dogmatic at times. He can be very dramatic. His deep voice adds gravitas to “It was a dark and stormy night” stories. I watched the video. I think it misses a key point-why are you searching with a gun in the first place? (Stophel made this point a few hours ago.) If you just need a flashlight for illumination and attach a gun to it like some sort of multi-tool, that’s just stupid and a good way to get into trouble. If you need a gun, having a flashlight attached to it adds versatility. He starts out with a premise that is true enough, that a weapon light is not a substitute for a separate handheld light as a primary search tool. But then he spins it into a theoretical rabbit trail replete with bad analogies (hunting scope) and scary war stories. The war stories include multiple concepts, most of which do not appear to have anything to do with the use of weapon mounted lights but with pointing guns at people generally. It then segues into a unique issue involving WMLs that he turns into the focal point of the video rather than focusing on the main issue. Did any of the war stories actually involve people who got jammed up because of the WML?

Without getting into too much theory, which varies from state to state, pointing guns at people or merely holding guns in a certain manner can result in criminal charges. Everybody knows that. When you do it, you need to have a valid legal basis, whether it is that your actions do not meet the statutory elements of a crime or because the elements of a crime were met but the law recognizes justifications that excuse the otherwise illegal behavior. The valid justification is that something occurred for which your actions were reasonable under the circumstances and authorized by law even if technically illegal.

So, why are you searching with a gun in the first place? If it is just so you can find your cat in the back yard and you use your WML, that obviously is stupid. If you are out in public and you need to figure out what’s going on before deciding if an armed response is necessary, using a WML is stupid. Everybody here knows that (I hope). Is it because you are asleep in your house and you hear glass breaking consistent with forcible entry? Did you arrive home and find the place ransacked? Are you a police officer summoned by a property owner or his mechanical or human authorized representative (alarm or alarm company) who believes a burglary may be in progress, or kicking a door because it sounds like someone inside literally is getting the life beaten out of them? Aren’t those the types of crimes in your state for which a search with a drawn firearm is legally defensible? (Of course, you should first analyze the circumstances and consider whether or not there is the possibility of innocents present and adjust actions, such as an announcement, accordingly.) The justification for the firearm, whether deemed “brandishing” at low ready, pointing a gun at someone temporarily, or holding someone at gunpoint, is the same whether you actually catch a criminal or frighten someone who is not a criminal but somehow found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time. Ayoob dismisses that by saying it’s “no harm, no foul” if you actually catch a criminal, but that you can go to jail for aggravated assault if it turns out to not be a criminal. I don’t know what state(s) he is talking about, but he’s not talking about mine as long as you reasonably thought that a crime involving the threat of death or serious injury was occurring.

BTW, if someone is searching something with a separate handheld light and someone pops out from around the corner, how many people out of a hundred won’t instinctively raise their gun anyway and start barking commands (or worse). The location of the light on the gun or in the off- hand is not going to be much of a distinction in real life. Also, before the WML became common, most of the handheld flashlight techniques involved mating the flashlight with the gun in a number of different ways (including some claimed to have been developed by Ayoob) that roughly equated to using a WML while searching. (viking alluded to that.) Then there are searches with carbines and shotguns, movement while holding something or someone in the flashlight hand, opening doors, etc. Dogma can be very problematic in real life. It’s a straitjacket. The ability to think in real time, to apply logic and to explain your actions is important. “One size fits most” pronunciations provide little benefit when dealing with something as serious as people’s lives and freedom, as discussed earlier by Waders. Use them with caution and get advice specific to your locale.

I’ve wasted too much time on this. In a past life I must have been a YouTube video critic. I need to get back in the woods with my bow. Y’all take care.

P.S. I’ve been to two Ayoob classes, but those were a long time ago. Ayoob used to be a Glock hater because he thought their triggers were dangerously light. He would have lost a lot of business had he not adjusted his thoughts about them. I also think that 30 years ago he would not have advocated tricked out guns with bells and whistles or those bearing names like “Wilson Combat” engraved on their sides for display in front of a jury. “Combat” sounds very martial and could give district attorneys and plaintiffs’ lawyers theoretical arguments to use against you in court. Wilson Combat guns are OK, handloads are bad. Alrighty. Dogma shift, unpublished shifts in positions over time, and/or just inconsistent?

P.P.S. If an “expert” puts out a paper or video saying that something is good or not good, it is good for business. If you follow the expert’s advice, you are a potential client. If you don’t follow the advice, you are a potential target. “Experts” can make money either way and enhance their CV.


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Things like this are very much situational.

I believe, for 99% of civilian situations, using a WML will be in their home, or on their property. Anyone there without the right to be there might get a gun pointed at them regardless.

I doubt that is a crime in most jurisdictions, but maybe in some.

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Originally Posted by Cheyenne
P.S. I’ve been to two Ayoob classes, but those were a long time ago. Ayoob used to be a Glock hater because he thought their triggers were dangerously light. He would have lost a lot of business had he not adjusted his thoughts about them. I also think that 30 years ago he would not have advocated tricked out guns with bells and whistles or those bearing names like “Wilson Combat” engraved on their sides for display in front of a jury. “Combat” sounds very martial and could give district attorneys and plaintiffs’ lawyers theoretical arguments to use against you in court. Wilson Combat guns are OK, handloads are bad. Alrighty. Dogma shift, unpublished shifts in positions over time, and/or just inconsistent?

P.P.S. If an “expert” puts out a paper or video saying that something is good or not good, it is good for business. If you follow the expert’s advice, you are a potential client. If you don’t follow the advice, you are a potential target. “Experts” can make money either way and enhance their CV.

When Glock came to US shores AyBoob was a major thorn in their ass.

They paid him to love Glock, and he has loved Glock ever since.

He is a fugking fraud. Nothing more.


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Things like this are very much situational.

I believe, for 99% of civilian situations, using a WML will be in their home, or on their property. Anyone there without the right to be there might get a gun pointed at them regardless.

I doubt that is a crime in most jurisdictions, but maybe in some.

Exactly.

That wandering eye'd jackass has no fugking clue what he's talking about.

Snake oil salesman at best. But he's really just a fraud.


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Things like this are very much situational.

I believe, for 99% of civilian situations, using a WML will be in their home, or on their property. Anyone there without the right to be there might get a gun pointed at them regardless.

I doubt that is a crime in most jurisdictions, but maybe in some.

I agree.


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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
It is serious. Rarely if ever talk out my ass. I know several police officers, and most have never been in a shooting. Is their advice good or bad?


What advice are you asking about?


Any and all when it comes to defensive shooting. Basically, the same type of advice Ayoob gives.

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Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
It is serious. Rarely if ever talk out my ass. I know several police officers, and most have never been in a shooting. Is their advice good or bad?


What advice are you asking about?


Any and all when it comes to defensive shooting. Basically, the same type of advice Ayoob gives.

Yes a person can give bad advice regarding the use of force.

Any other brain burners?

LOL


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Ayoob is for sale when it comes to his advice - in addition to the other criticisms previously mentioned. Don't trust him.

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I’ve read Ayoob since he first appeared in the gun rags. He attached himself to every fad and ‘next big thing’ that would sell an article. Then he started marketing himself as a LE, self defense expert and expert witness. His writings took on all manner of legal mumbo-jumbo, sounding as if he were a lawyer or paralegal. As a guy who spent 32 full time years in harness—nights, weekends, whatever—eventually learning this guy was ‘career auxillary’ spoke volumes. His writing sounded like he couldn’t decide if he was a cop or a lawyer, for the defense or prosecution. He was 'identifying' as all of them.

Grantham PD must be a real understanding agency because I would have gotten my ass fired if I signed on as an expert witness for a defendant whose 1. Wife committed suicide by shooting herself in the BACK of the head (during an argument) somehow managing to gather no gunshot residue at the wound site. Then the guy tells two stories- 1. That she shot herself when he walked in the room, and 2. No, wait I was actually trying to grab the gun when she brained herself with my 38. Yeah, that’s the ticket!

We’ve all gotten subpoenaed by the defense on cases where we were the reporting or investigating officer. That’s not what we’re talking about here. We’re talking about the second oldest profession here which is ‘paid witness’- the earliest example being Judas Iscariot.

Any career, full-time cop accumulates a committed-to-memory encyclopedia of lies and BS stories, floated in attempts to cover various crimes. If there’s an active or retired full time cop here who could look at the Bias shooting reports and say ‘I want to testify for that poor innocent bastard!’ by gawd, raise your hand. I’ll buy lunch next time you’re through central MO and you can convince me in person.

None of this bothered Ayoob, who not only testified for the guy- but later, sold articles about his involvement in the case! While many of us with decades in the CJ system might see this as a conflict of interest, personal code of honor or potential policy violation, none of that bothered Ayoob. Because for him, it’s always about the “Ca-Ching”. And when the Defense got their asses handed to them on a motion for private lab analysis of ammunition, it suddenly became about “No Reloads for Defense”. Whatever it takes to sell an article, I guess.

Speaking personally here, I wouldn’t walk across the street to see this guy juggle hatchets with his feet. I can point and laugh from across the street.

Last edited by SargeMO; 09/19/22. Reason: grammar and clarity

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Well said.

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Deflave if you shot as well as you troll you would win the Outstanding American handgunner award just like Ayoob has. I'm sure Jerry Miculek has you on speed dial for advice. By the way light in hand or on weapon use whatever works.


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Originally Posted by MontanaMarine
Things like this are very much situational.

I believe, for 99% of civilian situations, using a WML will be in their home, or on their property. Anyone there without the right to be there might get a gun pointed at them regardless.

I doubt that is a crime in most jurisdictions, but maybe in some.


Exactly. Or your camping in bear country.

That’s why boob is full of it. Vague, vague. He made himself a self appointed expert.

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The criticism of Ayoob is that he claims to be something that he is not. Why would you rely on advice from a person with phoney credentials and is a liar?


Every normal man must be tempted, at times, to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats.
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Originally Posted by Daverageguy
Deflave if you shot as well as you troll you would win the Outstanding American handgunner award just like Ayoob has. I'm sure Jerry Miculek has you on speed dial for advice. By the way light in hand or on weapon use whatever works.

Flave and Jerry Miculke do not misrepresent themselves.


Originally Posted by Geno67
Trump being classless,tasteless and clueless as usual.
Originally Posted by Judman
Sorry, trump is a no tax payin pile of shiit.
Originally Posted by KSMITH
My young wife decided to play the field and had moved several dudes into my house
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Small guy, big hairpiece, deep voice says...
"massage my boobs"?

Last edited by night_owl; 09/19/22.


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He is a foam prop and his articles are written by a bot.

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Originally Posted by deflave
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Just a Hunter
It is serious. Rarely if ever talk out my ass. I know several police officers, and most have never been in a shooting. Is their advice good or bad?


What advice are you asking about?


Any and all when it comes to defensive shooting. Basically, the same type of advice Ayoob gives.

Yes a person can give bad advice regarding the use of force.

Any other brain burners?

LOL

So, you really don't have any answers just sarcastic criticism.

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