Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Muzzleloaders Beginner in need of advice

I know next to nothing about muzzleloaders beyond the fact that A) you load them through the muzzle, and B) the technology was mostly abandoned over a century ago because metallic cartridges are objectively better in every meaningful way. And I'm not 100% sure about A).

But Montana has a new December traditional muzzleloader season, and western Montana in December, after the rifle season ends and before the snow and ice activities are in full swing, can be a touch on the bleak side. It's a short season at just over a week, but no additional tags are needed so the barrier to participation is fairly low. I'd just need a muzzleloader.


From Montana FWP, these are the sideboards for the weapons allowed during this season:

Muzzleloader hunters must use plain lead projectiles and a muzzleloading rifle that is charged with loose black powder, loose pyrodex, or an equivalent loose black powder substitute, and ignited by a flintlock, wheel lock, matchlock, or percussion mechanism using a percussion or musket cap.

The muzzleloading rifle must be a minimum of .45 caliber and may not have more than two barrels.
May not use a muzzleloading rifle that requires insertion of a cap or primer into the open breech of the barrel, is capable of being loaded from the breech, or is mounted with an optical magnification device.

Use of pre-prepared paper or metallic cartridges, sabots, gas checks, or other similar power and range-enhancing manufactured loads that enclose the projectile from the rifling or bore of the firearm is also prohibited.


What would folks recommend for a completely green, not-fully-committed newcomer to muzzleloader hunting? I don't want to spend a fortune. I don't intend to go full Davey Crockett, dress up in buckskins, and take up the rendezvous circuit. Assume there's a high likelihood of a quick resale.

Remember, I'm completely new to this, so use small words and don't assume any prior knowledge of ML lingo.

I appreciate the help.

For entry level (cheap) go with a percussion lock. Forget the cheap flintlocks, they have issues which make them unreliable.
If deer are your largest game a .50 caliber will do just fine. If elk are included go to 54 caliber minimum. I am talking patched round ball. As for brand of rifle? Right now, what ever you can find and afford. Everything black powder is in short supply at this moment.

Wanting to learn and find answers? Go to my website at : http://traditionalmuzzleloader.com/

And check my U-tube channel. Traditional Muzzleloader

Since you are not fully commited to get into this, and although I personally find caplocks to be an abomination, the above info is good advice...I'm thinkin' there is a nice Thompson Center caplock right here in the classifieds at least every other week. Only two things matter when buying a used muzzleloader. !: the condition of the bore 2: the condition of the bore and if you want a good one, check the bore.

If you want a new rifle, the Traditions Hawken Woodsman .50 is a good choice. It will shoot patched round balls and Hornady Great Plains lead bullets equally well. Its relatively inexpensive. Barrel is easily removable for cleaning. It's readily available. And will resell quickly since you will be asking only a portion of its already low retail price.

That was my first muzzleloader, and it wasn't a bad rifle at all for the price. It was minute of dessert plate all day long with patched round balls and the iron sights, and they were the easy click adjust ones, so changing zero for loads was a piece of cake. Think I paid $60, maybe $75 for it used and sold it for about the same several years later.

I have killed more than a few elk with 50 cal bullets. Maxiballs or Powerbelts.

Some inlines will have percussion cap nipple included. Inlines are might easier to clean up as you can remove the breech plug, side locks not so much,but it isn't a big deal.

The older Hawkin types are usually a little heavier than the newer in lines. 8-9 pound vs 6-7 for the inline.

Pay particular attention to sights. Some have plastic elevation ramps and clamp.They break in cold weather.

Does this Montana rule rule out inlines?

"May not use a muzzleloading rifle that requires insertion of a cap or primer into the open breech of the barrel, is capable of being loaded from the breech, or is mounted with an optical magnification device."

Way it reads sounds like no inlines

I used a cheapo Traditions Hawken Woodsman caplock in 50 cal to take 10 public land elk and one deer. I got tutorial from a book by Sam Fadalla, and from internet sages online just like here.

I wound up preferring real BP over substitutes for ease and consistency of ignition.

For me Ballistol worked best for lube, cleaning, and rust prevention.

Using heavy ML bullets gave me more confidence, real or imagined over patched round balls. Although I had much fun and success with PRB's for target practice.

I was very cautious to keep cap and muzzle dry and sealed in the field. Never had a misfire hunting. Even in heavy rain.

The experience was extremely enjoyable, although field extraction of an elk carcass was still just as hard as using metallic cartridges :-)

I agree that percussion is a good place to start, but your budget is also a factor. Many people get their start in muzzleloading with a TC, CVA or Traditions. There is nothing wrong with something like a CVA Bobcat 50 cal, if all you are looking to do is extend your season.

Be warned, muzzleloading is addictive. I started 35+ years ago with a TC New Englander. Had many TC’s and a few CVA’s over the years, and they will serve you well. Until the disease kicks in. Then you start buying custom flintlocks.

Check some local gun stores for used muzzleloaders. Bore condition is key. Make sure you check it with a light. Auctions are also a good place, as is the muzzleloading forum. Any shop that carries muzzleloaders can probably set you up with the necessary equipment, patches and round balls, or conical, powder, powder measure, caps ( hard to find sometimes), cleaning supplies etc.

Then I would connect with someone in your area who has experience. It’s easier to have a coach than to fumble around on your own. Being that you’re in Montana, I’m sure there are black powder shoots near you. Those guys are a wealth of information.

Thanks for all the input so far. Reason I'm asking here is there isn't a strong muzzleloader hunting culture in MT, probably because we've never had a ML season until now (that I'm aware of). I know exactly one person who's ever hunted with one. There may be black powder shoots, I'd have to look into that.

My budget is <$1000, and <$500 if I can help it. I'm hearing I should be looking for a Hawken-type rifle by Traditions or TC? From my cursory googling, it looks like TC stopped making a Hawken a while ago, but they come up for sale used. Any major quality difference between Traditions and TC?

So you can shoot either bullets or patched round balls out of these things? Should I be looking for a particular caliber if I want to shoot bullets? I'm assuming they have an accuracy and terminal performance edge over the balls?

A sidelock T/C Westerner in .54ca has a 1-38 twist and shoots a maxi-ball with great accuracy. I bought two, used one to take elk, moose, bear and many deer and sold it to a friend in Alaska. I hope to get my back problem solved so I can hunt with the other as it is still new.

Just one man's opinion here, but I have nearly a half century of experience and more importantly I started the hobby with the intent to remove as many variables as possible leading to unreliability and inaccuracy. I experimented endlessly off the bench with every variable, using the same approaches we use to get the most of our centerfire rifles. It would take a small book to summarize my findings, but I'll share a few tips to get you headed in the general direction of hassle free success. Acquire the best rifle you can afford, of commonly found mass production rifles, always consider Pedersoli, TC, and Lyman as the best. Sure others are fine, and will do the job, but if you do lose interest they hold good resale. Next, for now, I would forget about conicals, go with patched roundball, so thusly do not buy a rifle with any twist faster than 1 in 48"...1 in 60 or 70 is best. Do not attempt to use any black powder substitute. Black...period. Patches, 100% cotton. Roundball, just go with pure lead to start. Now, this is important: the fit of the lubed (more on that) patched ball going downbore is critical, it will be the single most important factor in accuracy. The patched ball needs to fit the bore as snug as possible, without requiring undue damage to the soft lead ball in starting and seating. You will see men smacking a short starter like a karate chop, then bouncing the rod down on the ball to jam it downbore. Deforming the ball and damaging the patch. When you have balanced ball diameter with patch thickness correctly, you should be able to start the patched ball with a 'thumbstart' or at the most a gentle whack with the flat of a knife, then the rod should be able to seat the patched ball in a long smooth push roughly in the neighborhood of 15 to 30 pounds. Lube..the most contentious subject, but reality is, anything but petroleum based products will work, unsalted animal fats are the most compatible and my personal favorite. A few store bought lubes are animal or veg based, SPG and Froglube come to mind. Cleaning is contentious, but almost everything works as long as it is water based, stuff like Simple Green works ok, but so does dishwater. Preserve lightly with animal lubes, again, no petroleum ever. As you proceed feel free to pm me if needed.

As far as I know, Traditions is the lowest quality of rifle made. They work and shoot very well, but the fit and finish require attention before use. Also the rear sight, at least on mine has no means except friction to maintain adjustment.

The book I read by Sam Fadalla was the Lyman BP book.

The learning curve is similar to handloading, only with less tools and less complexity. I wouldn't hesitate from fear of difficulty. It brought a lot of enjoyment to hunting for me that center-fire rifle didn't have.

I don't think you could go wrong with a used TC .50 caliber Hawken that is in good condition. To repeat what has been said above -- check the bore very carefully. Also, make sure the nipple can be easily removed. Maxi-balls always shot well from my Hawken and were more user friendly than patched round balls. The rifle and all accessories should be way less than your upper budget limit and probably much closer to $500.

They certainly aren't the greatest. But for the price, they aren't that bad. Mine worked very well. It was very accurate. 1:48 inch twist held a couple of inches off the bench at 50 yards using Hornady patched round balls and Great Plains bullets. 1:48 was plenty to stabilize the Great Plains.

One thing I liked about the Traditions was the hook/breech barrel. Where all you had to do was knock the wedge out to get the barrel off. It was kinda tight early on and I found I had to loosen the tang screw a bit to get the barrel back on, but it loosened up over time and the feature worked well. Made it a breeze to clean. It also had very decent sights.

It does have that crescent butt plate so shouldering it is different than with a flat butt rifle, so the OP would have to learn that. But it sets in quickly.

Overall for $450 or so, it's hard to beat. I sold mine a few months ago and now I have nothing that is really suitable for patched round balls and I am kinda kicking myself over it.

Here's what mine looked like when it was new:



Here you can see the drum wasn't timed to the hammer exactly, but it worked well anyways. Not an uncommon issue.










A used T/C Hawken may be a good option. I live in Virginia and Green Top in Richmond, Va has several used, .50 and .54, for sale. Nice looking guns, too.

If buying used, not a bad idea if you can find some locally, take a small LED light that will slide down the barrel so you can check for rust.

Used TCs have a huge base of parts available, pretty much the entire gun can be replaced. They’re reliable, and sturdy. Some excellent guns are/were made in Italy as well, but lack that “support”.

If buying new, I recommend Pedersoli. Still, I’d suggest you try to find a nice used one before plunking down big money on a newor custom until you’re certainit’s your “thing”.

I also recommend real black powder if available, followed by 777. Blackhorn 209 isn’t suitable for sidelocks under normal circumstances. Get a big bottle of Ballistol for cleaning.

One thing bad about the TC Hawkin is the rear sigh. It is spring loaded. If you grip the rifle at the balance point which is at that rear sigh, when it gets pushed down, the elevation screw gets loose and the sight moves zero. I put a peep sight on mine.

I also replaced the hickory ramrod with a nylon one, not fiberglass

I replaced the one on my Renegade with a Williams WGOS and an aperture blade. Also replaced the steel bead with a Skinner brass blade. The Skinner is easily trimmed if needed, and also filed on the dovetail, also sometimes needed with TCs, maybe for the ones built on Mondays or Fridays.

Same sight problem on my Traditions. I actually photographed the settings after a spine hit on an elk one year led to the discovery of the problem. Same issue with the balance point.

The rifle does shoot. I put three PRB's into a ragged hole at 50 yards with it once. Only reason I used maxiballs for hunting is elk are stubborn about going down. I felt more confident with the extra weight.

You can't go wrong with a used 50 cal T/C caplock. I like the New Englander and Renegade without the set trigger. The Hawken is a fine looking rifle but the curved buttplate and small trigger guard with the tang underneath don't do anything for me as a hunter.

The High Plains Sporter is a nice hunting model with a large trigger guard.

[img]https://i.imgur.com/tQ1ixxe.jpg?2[/img]

Fixed that curved butt plate problem. Original stock cracked so I made a new one and put on a pad.Drilling the hole for the ramrod was a challenge.

Incredible job on that stock saddlesore! I had a 50 Caliber Hawken for many years. I traded it for a New Englander when they first came out..

My current Hawken is a Pedersoli and I love it. It's a bit finicky, but it's on a different level than the Traditions. It cost more than twice as much as the Traditions, so it should be better. It is a good rifle if it fits the OPs budget.

Other very good ones are Lymans and Investarms. Dixie Gun Works as some of their own branded guns but these are usually made by one of the Italian houses, like Pedersoli or Investarms.

I’m building a investarms .50 Hawken kit. It’s about $500, plus ~40 hours of build time. I’m currently finishing browning the barrel which is a multi day process. I’ll probably have another $40 -$50 into materials. I thought it would be fun to shoot something with a gun I finished myself.

Not done yet picture

Looking good so far.

I've never browned a barrel but watched either a Brownells or MidwayUSA video on the process. It's kinda complicated.

Lot of good info here for you, plenty to ""sift" through. Only thing I'd like to add is that a cheap gun is... well... cheap. Made up of cheap materials and put together as cheaply as possible. They do, for the most part, work. Just don't really expect any longevity with heavy use. Some will agree, others will disagree. Just like all of this stuff, no matter the method, you can make it whatever you want it to be. As simple or as complicated as you'd like. Personally, my opinion, use the best equipment you can afford. Totally sucks when you're out at it and you have equipment failure.

Enjoy your time out there going at it!

I agree with this. While the Traditions was a nice, accurate rifle, it had some quality issues. Fit and finish was as you'd expect on a gun that cost around $450. Brass to wood fit was kinda rough. The ramrod was kind of whippy. It worked, but it had a lot of flex. The nipple wasn't quite square to the hammer face and the drum was not easily adjustable. (My Pedersoli has a drum that can be turned a couple of degrees either way to square up the nipple, but it came perfectly squared. A good feature if you want to switch to a musket cap nipple and need to make a very minor adjustment without meaningfully altering the flame hole to bore alignment.) And while not a quality issue, the barrel diameter was singificantly less than on my Pedersoli. IIRC, the powder charge limitation was 100 grains. More than I ever used. But the Pedersoli is 120 grains.

If you can pay in the $600-$900 range, you can buy a very, very nicely made muzzle loader.

It seems everyone that says they want to try muzzle loading but may not stiuck with it, ends up sticking with it and loves it. Might as well buy the best you can afford right off the bat, as Dean says.

Thank you all for the wealth of information! I think I have what I need to start shopping around.

Finding a decent caplock with a good bore should be no problem.

Finding the percussion caps might be the tougher problem these days.

A slow 1-66 twist is for patched roundball.
A faster 1-48 twist can handle ball or conical bullets.

Have fun with the new hunting season!

I'm just starting out and I've found everything but #11 caps . I have a friend that's going to loan me some until I can find some available.

Price is high but here they are available. $15.00 is high for 100. But not having any at all may be worse.

https://muzzle-loaders.com/collections/powder-primers/products/cci-11-magnum-percussion-cap