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Buffalo was shot at 40 yards range, broadside body hidden by brush, long grass and thorns, head visible and watching hunter, head erect but turned slightly to buffalo's right side,
buffalo watching hunter, thinking he was hidden well enough in the thicket.
Aim point was to right of center of brain pan.
Batter up !
Bullet: 300-gr/.375 TSX, from Blaser .375 H&H
I think it exited back of buffalo's head,
passing under thickest part of skull and bosses.
Will notify if not so.

[Linked Image]

Grand, old dagga boy:

[Linked Image]

Sir Toby, above, just got back from Africa.
For some reason he is replacing his Blaser R8 .375 H&H barrel with a .458 WinMag barrel and has started shooting
.458 WM+ loads with 450-gr TSX at 3.565" COL.
The Blaser magazine handles .375 H&H COL afterall.
His first loads were fired today, in his Blaser R8 !


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Very cool stuff, thank you. The advantage of the 375 in an R8 is a much lighter gun. I would assume that a proper solid in it will be indistinguishable from the great 458 if each is placed properly. I have a 375 barrel for my wife and daughters to shoot. Hard to go wrong with the 375 for hunting in the U.S. or elsewhere.

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Sir Toby's load data:

"My results today were as follows.

Barnes 450gr TSX
TAC powder.
COL 3.565 crimped in second groove from bottom.
75gr 2083fps
77gr 2140fps
78gr 2166fps
80gr 2204fps

I stopped at 80gr. This is 1.5gr under the Barnes book max for 458 Lott. I see no signs of pressure, and extraction is easy. Primer pockets still tight after 3 loadings on one of the cases I was keeping track of.
I was only able to get 2140fps with this bullet in my 21″ Winchester 70. This R8 has a usable barrel length of 22.5″. So I think I should be able to do better, but not really that concerned. I’m betting the CEB Raptors and Solids will give better velocities as they have in the past with my 21″ gun. I was easily getting 2250fps with that gun and the 420 Raptors. Now with being able to use the Talon tips in this R8, I should be able to come up with a heck of a load."


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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My suggestion for the 450-gr CEB Safari Solid, 420-gr CEB Raptor is same bullet with 30-gr of HP removed at meplat:

This load ought to be just a wee bit over 2250 fps in a 20″ barrel,
and it is only a wee bit over 3.340″ COL: 3.360″ COL.
If you were using a .458 Lott, it would require a heavier powder charge and have more recoil to get it that fast,
and as Michael said, you don’t need it any faster.
This was my starting load and my only .458 WM+ load with this bullet:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

20″ velocity estimate, about 2275 fps.
Maybe increasing the COL from 3.360″ to 3.370″ or even 3.380″ would slow it down to 2250 fps, HEH HEH.

Now getting ready for some 400-gr CEB Safari Solid to go with the 404-gr Shock Hammer ...


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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Sir Toby,
Congrats! That's great work on that Trophy! You took the Shot that you had too.


I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!

A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!

Know Thy Self!

TRUMP DID WIN!!!
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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Good show Sir Jerry.
For Sir Roo, take note.
If you want light rifle carry, here is as light as I like to go in a .458 WM:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Marcella is an M70 .416 RemMag action re-barreled to .458 WM
with a No. 4 sporter contour McGowen of true .458" groove,
cut down from 26" to 23" at the muzzle end of the barrel blank.
It is almost as fast as a 25" Shilen which has closer to 0.459" groove.
400-grainers at +2500 fps was no problemo in either barrel, with AA-2230.
This will be my deer rifle this year, with the 404-gr. Shock Hammer at 3.480" COL.
But I will add the weight of a scope and more:

[Linked Image]

The 400-gr GSC HV handload was at + 2500 fps from the Shilen.
Same rifle did about 2350 fps with the Buffalo Bore factory loaded 400-gr TSX.
Both killed deer with results similar to Sir Jerry's illustration.

This one needs some accessories added to it for extra weight:

[Linked Image]

Same as the CIP homologated .45-70 Elko Magnum, with Starline brass for .45-2.6" it is 2 grains H2O bigger than the .458 WM.
The slow twist comes from re-chambering a .45-70 Gov't.,
and note that Ruger makes those with the same groove diameter as their faster-twist .458 WM barrels,
even though SAAMI minimum is 0.456" for .45-70 Gov't.

How do you like the red dot? I'm looking at one for a Whitworth .458. I would love to find one that would cowitness but haven't seen anything like that so far.

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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Originally Posted by jwp475
Very impressive, this proves that a properly designed mono metal solid doesn't need to be 500 grains and the folly of falling for the SD nonsense

Yep, even the 325-gr/.458 brass FN of CEB with a BBW#13 nose shape projecting 0.6" ahead of first band is better than the old 500-gr/.458 RN FMJ "solid,"
even at same impact velocity, even at 2000 fps or less.
Lessons from MIB.

Here is the WFN copper Lehigh 380-grainer.
The sharp-edged, ~.35-caliber meplat may not penetrate as deeply as the BBW#13 nose profile,
but it will track straight
and dump energy faster, put more hurt on a big brown bear not needing as much penetration as an elephant.
It still does plenty of penetrating.
Feeds in my bolt actions if I keep them seated deeply enough.
That was the only surprise about this bullet for me:

[Linked Image]

Sir Ron,
I think this 380 Lehigh will work out well for the 45-70 and faster 458's. The bc is not near what the 404 Hammer is, but for the limited visibility areas this bullet should knock the crap out of moose and/or bear from nearly any angle.

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Whole LOTTA good from you Sir Ron and Doc M, agreed on the 400 Hammer solids as well as LDM's 380 grainers, they both will do the job anyone would ever call on a solid bullet to do, also agree with Sir John on the sec/den deal, it certainly does not apply to solids, i'll find and slam hard a buffalo with the 404 Hammers, wont cut it any slack, if straight broadside through the shoulders is presented, that's exactly where i'll send it, i dont foresee and problems, should any arise after two solid hits 'if needed' from the 404 Hammers the 500gr TBSS's will finish it. cool


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Originally Posted by DesertMuleDeer
How do you like the red dot? I'm looking at one for a Whitworth .458. I would love to find one that would cowitness but haven't seen anything like that so far.
DesertMuleDeer,

Not an issue for me.
I just eyeballed where the red dot is, hanging a little above the front sight, and then just ignore the front sight.
It is a backup sight I was merely toying with.
Very light and handy and better for poor light conditions than a peep sight.
That one has worked well on a Glock 10mm Auto.
Should survive well on a rifle too.
I like scopes best of all.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Originally Posted by ldmay375
[quote=Riflecrank]
Sir Ron,
I think this 380 Lehigh will work out well for the 45-70 and faster 458's. The bc is not near what the 404 Hammer is, but for the limited visibility areas this bullet should knock the crap out of moose and/or bear from nearly any angle.
Sir Larry,
Absolutely !


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Sir Jerry,
I will tell Doc M about the appreciation he is getting over here at 24hr.
If you ever want to join his private forum, you were invited and vouched for by many, IIRC.
They say that an Eskimo woman gets tattoos on her chin to show that she is a "serious woman."
Your reputation as a "serious man" has spread far and wide.
No need for you to get a tattoo on your chin ... heh heh, sometimes I just can't heppit, trying to be funny, but it goes off the rails.

Here is someting you and Sir Tony will like:

[Linked Image]

Top rifle above is a Browning Bros. M1879 serial no. 509, chambered for .40-70 something or other.
Rifle below it is Winchester M1885 serial no. 87, chambered for .45-70 Gov't.
In this situation, the model numbers might match the year of production.
Picture is from R. L. Wilson's book, "WINCHESTER An American Legend"
which brings us back to the topic of the .458 Winchester Magnum.
I bought R.L. a hotdog and an ice cream cone at the 2016 NRA Convention.
We heard Trump and Pence and Ted Nugent that day in Freedom Hall.
R.L. died soon after that.
Hope the hotdog and ice cream cone did not have anything to do with his death.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary
.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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I have learned a new trick for the 400-gr CEB #13 Safari Solid in the .458 WinMag
so as to create a .458 WM+ handload:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Another trick with a CEB bullet, loading with either one band or two bands inside a case,
even when the bullet has a boat tail, it can be done:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Seeing how well a 325-gr/.458 CEB #13 FN brass solid penetrates
gives me new respect for the 300-gr Raptor shot backwards for use as FN solid.

No, I do not need a 400-gr/.458-cal. CEB ESP Raptor with Talon Tip.
But it would be fun,
even if BC could not be as high as the 404-gr/.458-cal. Shock Hammer.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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A comparison of a Lehigh Defense trick bullet to a couple of even trickier CEB bullets:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

CEB has a 650-gr/.458-cal. Lazer also, but enuff is enuff.
The Lazer bullets fracture into 3 large petals at the tip, reportedly at velocity as low as 1200 fps impact.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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If 600 grains is enough for supersonic, it ought to be enough for subsonic too:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

To add belt to suspenders, center a cannelure on the bullet ogive at ~1.060" from base,
or about 0.500" from meplat.
Probably not at all necessary.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Lengthening of the .458 B&M throat may be required for some of the above COLs.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
NRA Life Benefactor and Beneficiary
.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Sir Jerry,
I will tell Doc M about the appreciation he is getting over here at 24hr.
If you ever want to join his private forum, you were invited and vouched for by many, IIRC.
They say that an Eskimo woman gets tattoos on her chin to show that she is a "serious woman."
Your reputation as a "serious man" has spread far and wide.
No need for you to get a tattoo on your chin ... heh heh, sometimes I just can't heppit, trying to be funny, but it goes off the rails.

Here is someting you and Sir Tony will like:

[Linked Image]

Top rifle above is a Browning Bros. M1879 serial no. 509, chambered for .40-70 something or other.
Rifle below it is Winchester M1885 serial no. 87, chambered for .45-70 Gov't.
In this situation, the model numbers might match the year of production.
Picture is from R. L. Wilson's book, "WINCHESTER An American Legend"
which brings us back to the topic of the .458 Winchester Magnum.
I bought R.L. a hotdog and an ice cream cone at the 2016 NRA Convention.
We heard Trump and Pence and Ted Nugent that day in Freedom Hall.
R.L. died soon after that.
Hope the hotdog and ice cream cone did not have anything to do with his death.

You are Correct Sir Ron,
That's one of my favorite pages in that Book!
A "Serious Man" tatoo might be hard to come by. As Sir Jerry might already have one in an inconspicuous place! LOL!!!


I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!

A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!

Know Thy Self!

TRUMP DID WIN!!!
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Yikes !

Don't ever let anyone tell you that the .458 Lott is a serious cartridge and the .458 Winchester Magnum is not.

Both of these will beat a SAAMI .458 Lott for higher velocity at same pressure.

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Both are better at lower recoil loads too, if such is desired.


Ron aka "Rip" for Riflecrank Internationale Permanente
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.458 Winchester Magnum, Magnanimous in Victory
THE WALKING DEAD does so remind me of Democrap voters. Donkeypox.
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Originally Posted by HunterShooter58
Originally Posted by Riflecrank
Sir Jerry,
I will tell Doc M about the appreciation he is getting over here at 24hr.
If you ever want to join his private forum, you were invited and vouched for by many, IIRC.
They say that an Eskimo woman gets tattoos on her chin to show that she is a "serious woman."
Your reputation as a "serious man" has spread far and wide.
No need for you to get a tattoo on your chin ... heh heh, sometimes I just can't heppit, trying to be funny, but it goes off the rails.

Here is someting you and Sir Tony will like:

[Linked Image]

Top rifle above is a Browning Bros. M1879 serial no. 509, chambered for .40-70 something or other.
Rifle below it is Winchester M1885 serial no. 87, chambered for .45-70 Gov't.
In this situation, the model numbers might match the year of production.
Picture is from R. L. Wilson's book, "WINCHESTER An American Legend"
which brings us back to the topic of the .458 Winchester Magnum.
I bought R.L. a hotdog and an ice cream cone at the 2016 NRA Convention.
We heard Trump and Pence and Ted Nugent that day in Freedom Hall.
R.L. died soon after that.
Hope the hotdog and ice cream cone did not have anything to do with his death.

You are Correct Sir Ron,
That's one of my favorite pages in that Book!
A "Serious Man" tatoo might be hard to come by. As Sir Jerry might already have one in an inconspicuous place! LOL!!!

LOL, very funny stuff Sirs Ron and Tony, chin tats would be out as i have whiskers on my chin, you see, one butt crack is enough, i grow whiskers to hide the one on my face, plus shaving it then leaves two tiny red chapped hiney cheeks on one's face, who wants that??? ; ]

Great rifles those 1885's, betting the 40-70 is either a 40-70 Sharps Straight or 40-70 Sharps Bottleneck, great guns!


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HAHAHAHA!
Glad your laughing with us Sir Jerry. Yeah I agree with the 40-70 Sharps Straight, as Winchester and Remington, both used it occasionally in their Single Shot Rifles back then, more so than the 40-70 Bottleneck, from what I understand, but I wouldn't rule it out either. I especially am a fan of the Thick side receiver on the Browning vs. the Paneled receiver on the High Wall. Hence, their both nice Rifles and Desirable!


I Learned a long time ago to Separate My Want's from My Needs!

A man's Gotta Do What a Man's Gotta Do!

Know Thy Self!

TRUMP DID WIN!!!
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Did a post on my R8/458 in case anyone is interested.

https://pistol-training.com/blaser-r8-458wm/

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