24hourcampfire.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hop To
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,363
bcp Offline OP
Campfire Tracker
OP Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,363
Page gallery here:

https://postimg.cc/gallery/WptYnPt

Every once in a while I've seen a reference to this article, so finally looked it up.

Bruce

BP-B2

Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 351
W
Campfire Regular
Offline
Campfire Regular
W
Joined: Jan 2022
Posts: 351
Thanks! Hadn't read this before and big bore fever has been in my mind lately. This cured me for now...

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,056
D
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
D
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,056
tag

Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 17,102
Campfire Kahuna
Online Content
Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Nov 2015
Posts: 17,102
Loved the article. I've read everything that Bell wrote that I can find.

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,230
M
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
M
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,230
Bell had a privilege that “none” of us will never have! Almost unlimited time and opportunities to take game and no lost money on licenses when the animal is wounded and lost!

If you’re paying for a guided, potentially “once in a lifetime” hunt…..use the largest, most powerful cartridge that you are proficient/comfortable with!

If you’re on a “cull hunt” and is legal…..hell, use a .22 LR. That should help “red line” your “fun meter”! memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

“LETS GO BRANDON”
IC-A B3

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,961
P
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
P
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,961
i have seen small bullets kill better and faster than big bullets , 17 Remington i have killed some animals very quickly but my favorite cartridge is a 257 Weatherby mag. with a good 100 gr. bullet with high velocity around 3600 - 4000 FPS. best bullets i have used in the past were 100 gr. Nosler partition and 100 gr. Swift A-Frame bullets both were accurate and held together when an animal was shoot and died very quickly , i have used these 2 bullets for the last 20 some years. this year 2022 i plan on using some 103 gr. Hammer Hunter bullets this year that are also accurate with average velocities 3680 FPS. the best thing about smaller caliber bullets is much less recoil and a flatter trajectory for easier accuracy in the field at unknown distances when taking the shot and killing the animal , you don`t always have time to set up and use a rangefinder that`s when a good guess with kentucky windage comes into play and a fast small bore caliber bullet is a advantage. 20 year`s ago i was the only guy that used a 257 Weatherby mag. where i hunted but not any more most friends now use this cartridge too.

Last edited by pete53; 09/23/22.

LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 100
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 100
In this day and age where cartridges are available that’d satisfy about any special need for African game, I don’t believe a hunter getting a rifle or two gun battery could do much better than to simply buy a .375 H&H if he’s only going to have one rifle for all African hunting, and assuming dangerous game will be part of that. If he’s going to get a 2nd rifle or only hunt plains game, I think a 30-06 would fill the need very well. They’re tried and true, they kill game very efficiently without beating up the shooter, you can probably find ammo in any country if you’re in a pinch for ammo. I just don’t think most hunters can do significantly better.

That said, I hunt with different cartridges in my rifles. I mainly hunt with a .338 Winchester and for DG a .416 Hoffman. Are they better than the 375 & 30-06? I doubt it but they’re what I hunt with. When it was time to get my son a rifle for Africa, I got him a 375 H&H. Told him it was the only rifle he’d ever need for Africa. I’m having one more rifle built for me and it’s in 375 H&H. Anytime I’m doing a 1-gun hunt, that’s most likely what I’ll be carrying. YMMV.

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,492
P
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
P
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 8,492
Originally Posted by memtb
Bell had a privilege that “none” of us will never have! Almost unlimited time and opportunities to take game and no lost money on licenses when the animal is wounded and lost!

If you’re paying for a guided, potentially “once in a lifetime” hunt…..use the largest, most powerful cartridge that you are proficient/comfortable with!

If you’re on a “cull hunt” and is legal…..hell, use a .22 LR. That should help “red line” your “fun meter”! memtb

I'd argue that Bell was under more pressure than an average sport hunter. He was hunting to feed a huge number of porters and wanted to make sure every shot counted, as it was a long trek up from the coast and the nearest ammo resupply. Additionally, when the shooting was hot and heavy in a herd of elephants the goal was to put as much ivory on the ground as quickly as possible with the least amount of fuss, and he clearly found what worked most efficiently for the task at hand. Guess I'm not overly surprised that a Big Bore like yourself finds a reason to doubt.

Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 2,124
Campfire Ranger
Online Shocked
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 2,124
Give the man a 7X57 and stand back.


Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 438
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 438
All I have to say is, he was the man. He was extremely proficient with his firearms unlike many hunters today who only sight in or take a few shots before the hunt.

IC-B B4

Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 2,124
Campfire Ranger
Online Shocked
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Sep 2021
Posts: 2,124
Hard to know the truth, but when you're shooting 20 - 30 elephants a day, if you miss one, no one really notices...


Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,182
L
Campfire Outfitter
Online Content
Campfire Outfitter
L
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 9,182
Originally Posted by duke61
All I have to say is, he was the man. He was extremely proficient with his firearms unlike many hunters today who only sight in or take a few shots before the hunt.


This^^^^He practiced presentation constantly while walking and emphasized the importance of practice. He also studied the animals' anatomy carefully and placed his shots where most effective. Shot placement will always be the baseline skill.


mike r


Don't wish it were easier
Wish you were better

Stab them in the taint, you can't put a tourniquet on that.
Craig Douglas ECQC
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,961
P
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
P
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 5,961
i gotta say this for a joke > just think how much better he would have been with a 6.5 Creedmoor ! HE-HA


LIFE NRA , we vote Red up here, Norseman
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,230
M
Campfire Outfitter
Offline
Campfire Outfitter
M
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 8,230
Originally Posted by prairie_goat
Originally Posted by memtb
Bell had a privilege that “none” of us will never have! Almost unlimited time and opportunities to take game and no lost money on licenses when the animal is wounded and lost!

If you’re paying for a guided, potentially “once in a lifetime” hunt…..use the largest, most powerful cartridge that you are proficient/comfortable with!

If you’re on a “cull hunt” and is legal…..hell, use a .22 LR. That should help “red line” your “fun meter”! memtb

I'd argue that Bell was under more pressure than an average sport hunter. He was hunting to feed a huge number of porters and wanted to make sure every shot counted, as it was a long trek up from the coast and the nearest ammo resupply. Additionally, when the shooting was hot and heavy in a herd of elephants the goal was to put as much ivory on the ground as quickly as possible with the least amount of fuss, and he clearly found what worked most efficiently for the task at hand. Guess I'm not overly surprised that a Big Bore like yourself finds a reason to doubt.


I have no doubt that he did it…..only saying that it was a far different situation than any of us will ever have the pleasure of experiencing! memtb


You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel

“LETS GO BRANDON”
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,059
CRS Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,059
Growing up we killed quite a few cattle and hogs with a 22 rimfire to the brain or base of the skull. Just sayin cool

I have enjoyed using my 22-250 with monometals, kills above and beyond. Have never recovered a 53gr TSX moving at 3800fps out of dozens of deer/antelope.

Have a 1:8 twist 270 being built right now. Have some 180gr Woodleigh's on the shelf.... Very similar to a 7x57 with heavies.

My 338-06's are pretty dang close to a 318. Have stated numerous times there are not a lot of critters I would not use it on. Could I make it make work on buffalo, elephant and hippo? probably. But think there are better choices. Have been waiting for some 275gr A-Frames to become available to mess around with, although a 250gr mono would probably penetrate just as good with a little higher velocity for slightly flatter trajectory.

I have a big bore? in 416 Remington that I really like and do not plan on getting rid of anytime soon.

So it looks like I am 75% in Bell's camp. But realize that nobody will ever get to accumulate the experience he had.

Seems like his main issues with the big bores was rifle weight and short bullets. I never could talk myself into a true big bore >458, but understand Bell's shot placement premise 100%. Have often stated that shot placement relegates all other ballistic discussion to secondary importance.

Last edited by CRS; 09/24/22.

Arcus Venator
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 438
Campfire Regular
Online Content
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2012
Posts: 438
I never thought about effectiveness of longer bullets, as he put it, it should never be less than four times it's diameter in length and a short round nose and long parallel sides.

Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,059
CRS Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,059
That comment caught my attention also.


Arcus Venator
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,074
J
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
J
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,074
[quote][/qI never thought about effectiveness of longer bullets, as he put it, it should never be less than four times it's diameter in length and a short round nose and long parallel sides.uote]

That is just another way to describe sectional density. That is why a 200 gr 30 caliber bullet of the same construction will always out penetrate a 200 gr 33 or 35 caliber bullet.


Most people don't really want the truth.

They just want constant reassurance that what they believe is the truth.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,059
CRS Offline
Campfire Tracker
Offline
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 5,059
Originally Posted by JMR40
[quote][/qI never thought about effectiveness of longer bullets, as he put it, it should never be less than four times it's diameter in length and a short round nose and long parallel sides.uote]

That is just another way to describe sectional density. That is why a 200 gr 30 caliber bullet of the same construction will always out penetrate a 200 gr 33 or 35 caliber bullet.

Knew it was about SD, just never heard it put into a specific length vs caliber before.

But he also had problems with long bullets bending and not penetrating straight. Physics tell us that bigger diameter cylinders are stronger and long cylinders are weaker. So what is the is the multiplier x diameter= lengh of bullet for maximum penetration and non deforming bullets?

Bell states a multiplier of 4 for bullets of his era. What would it be today; 3, 3.5, 4 or even 4.5 be better?

Last edited by CRS; 09/25/22.

Arcus Venator
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,445
W
Campfire Guide
Offline
Campfire Guide
W
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,445
Read this article a few months back while in Zim on a tuskless hunt. Interesting perspective from one of the most experienced hunters during the nearly golden age of elephant hunting so worth listening to his observations. Obviously the tone is hyperbolic, as Bell was wont to be and exaggerated. A more polished Elmer Keith in reverse.

Agree that shot placement is the critical factor, but at least in the herds, enough cartridge is key. Once the close-in shooting starts, everything develops very quickly. So 2nd shots, often at less than ideal angles are the rule and stopping a mortally wounded elephant within a short distance of the initial shot - usually in brush - before it runs off with the herd, is critical to success.

I’m not disregarding Bell’s experience, opinion and advice, but at least a heavy medium - .400” - .423” - firing monolithic solids seems a prudent choice today. True that plenty of practice with the loads chosen, sighting system, and DGR are essential, because we all fight the way we train, especially after the first shot.

Interesting reading, but I would bet few riflemen will score a heart shot, with iron sights, on an elephant at 600 yards. Karamojo’s main claim to fame was actually his prowess as a superbly accurate rifleman. Brain shots, frontal or lateral at elephants, are risky and much less preferred than shoulder heart shots; dramatic videos notwithstanding. Just my 2 cents based on a modest number of elephants.


is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it Almighty God! I know not what course others may take, but as for me, give me liberty of give me death! P. Henry

Deus vult!

Rhodesians all now

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Moderated by  RickBin, SYSOP 

Link Copied to Clipboard
CTV-TRX
Who's Online Now
627 members (10Glocks, 1234, 06hunter59, 1Akshooter, 160user, 72 invisible), 1,934 guests, and 1,158 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
RR2/3-22

UDG-IP









Fish & Game Departments | Solunar Tables | Mission Statement | Privacy Policy | Contact Us | DMCA
Hunting | Fishing | Camping | Backpacking | Reloading | Campfire Forums | Gear Shop
Copyright © 2000-2022 24hourcampfire.com, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
 
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.3.33 Page Time: 0.062s Queries: 15 (0.004s) Memory: 0.9651 MB (Peak: 1.1158 MB) Data Comp: Zlib Server Time: 2022-10-05 19:41:54 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS