Home Forums Hunting & Shooting AR and Tactical Rifles Built for the Apocalyptic future - are non-metal parts a concern?

If'n a battle AR is really meant for the long run, any concern about poly/rubber grips, stocks, maybe the bumper on the buffer, or extractor o-rings? Thinking of becoming less than optimal or inoperable from being in a high heat environment (use your imagination), not degredation from chemicals (maybe that too) or heat from sustained firing. Besides lights, switches, optics.

I've heard of ditching the o-rings (BCM), aluminum grips and butts and had a guy in the know caution against Magpul plastique handguards... Stuff, within reason is going to still function? Or not?

Looked at ARs of a broad spectrum of price points today at Brownells. Poly aplenty.


Comments, GFYs, input? Parts that potentially could address such concerns, regardless of validity of course?

I don’t have any combat type experience but have learned a good bit about ARs. I think if the environment around you is either so hot or full bullets and fragments your gun will fail, you’ll have left that area pretty quickly. I’m not intending to be facetious or anything, but the gun will be much more durable than we are.

Yeah. You can only do so much fighting before you get got. Much more likely to die of disease, dehydration, starvation before your AR decomposes.

But never a bad idea to have an AK or an M1, maybe even an old Mauser to keep lead in the air. Diversity is the spice of life.

No doubt. I'm not trying to be too far out here. Easy to just check the, no not a concern box...

I could have been more specific, rather than saying "use your imagination". This does not mean the human is exposed to the same conditions as the firearm. For chits and giggles, say your MOE K2+ grip melted into a blob next to the burning rubble, or campfire, exhaust system, whatever the case may be. You didn't. There's no backups or base. Consequences? Avoidance? Apply same to the other potential non-metal parts. There are all metal butts, and grips. The all metal carbine stock by ??? for example. Certainly those were more durable than poly.

Just killing time. Parts are parts. We got our C158 bolt, uber extractor, chrome lined barrel, super sights, wonder springs, ultra-anadozing, mega handguard, but then went with plastic grip and butt? And magazine.

You stopped at the store in Grinnel ??

I hope you didn't try to go west on I-80. The ramp was closed last week and didn't look like it was going back open for any length of time.

kwg

$#&@&!, Yes, westbound!

Twenty miles, ten east, ten back to get to zero! Dambit! LOL, had to do that another time too!


Very conservative today. Got a bench block, vise block, various swabs, an Oops kit and a used single - shot 12ga. They had SR, SRM, SP, SPM primers and a few powders of interest. Sigh. I could easily dump ten of Gs there on shop goodies and toys! Walked away from a clean 870 twenty gauge for $280. Of interest, Trijicon Riflescopes made in Japan, FM9 forward Charging 9mm carbine, cool handguards. Oh boy, I am a fan.

Well I hate to say “mil spec” but again, true mil spec parts are about as tested in harsh environments as any you’ll find.

Let’s look at the O-ring. While the new mil spec is a 5 coil copper colored spring and black insert, no O-ring. However, that bolt gets hotter than you hold and the O-ring has survived.

Hand guards have melted and caught fire in torture tests. But the SS gas tubes have melted and burst too. The gun being DI gets pretty hot and handled the heat very well. Don’t know about MagPul hand guards but the Colt plastic hand guards are about as bullet proof as they come.

If your stock gets hot enough to melt, your action spring is gonna be toast. As for the buffer, cheap bargain priced buffers have been known to lose the rubber end to deterioration. They sometimes have powdered tungsten in plastic capsules instead of solid slugs. Another reason to avoid cheap parts.

All in all the MP K2+ is probably the weakest link, though I like them I have the non rubber covered versions on standby in case they start showing signs of weakness.

It’s never a bad idea to “what if” things.

Appreciate it. I totally get you, the stuff is well-tested. There's lots of different plastics as well... Lots of territory between scorched yet usable and fubar. I'll look into buffers as I have almost exclusively used the less costly, yet supposedly domestic options. I have a chrome-lined 16" unit I may build up using additional information learned since initially putting it together "good enough". Thanks for the continued input.

I'm more worried about age & UV damage to plastic than heat & abuse.

What were the old triangle handguards made out of?

Don't know the limits of your travels, can't imagine you can avoid Chitcago,
I was always afraid of putting something in a truck I would have to
explain. But, I started here in PA, so it was common to go North or east/southeast of here. Including Canuckistan. Accidently took some
44 mag ammo up there once. Like to poop myself sitting at a Toronto dock and finding them. If searched, that wouldn't have went well.

Those are some tough hand guards. But, it appears they get brittle with age based on some conversations I have read and my own observations. Then again, some of those hand guards are 60 plus years old. I don't know the plastic they are made of.

kwg

Egg shells…

The round Colt hand guards are about as rough as they come.

True.

kwg

The first ones were Bakelite weren't they?


The triangle ones must not have been Bakelite.

The only triangle hand guards I had were Colt and if they weren’t pinching you, the corners were in a race to break off under the delta ring.

UVs forsure. It's crazy how quickly some materials degrade.

Aluminum handguard is easy. I have a few tubes that are seriously burly.

How's about something like the CAR-15 aluminum buttstock?



BTW, what's the most corrosion-resist/longest lasting spring option? Recoil and otherwise.

Again, not trying to be too far out. Anything else for longevity on the wastelands?




A few grip options, although the slickside by Guntec is disconnected

At Brownells yesterday there was a lightly used Colt M4 with fancy DD overmolded furniture. $990

In a heat torture test, the metal will outlast the polymer. That said, I have some of each and I'm fine with the polymer really. It's been around for a while and is pretty durable.

I mean, If I'm in some sh.it where I'm burning down my polymer handguards, chances are I'm not coming out alive anyways. Hell, I doubt I would even be carrying enough ammo to really burn it down like that.

Back in El Salvador we had A1's. We got them pretty darn hot in some training ranges doing full auto stuff. So hot you could barely hold onto them. They lived through it just fine. Old school triangle handguards.

I did assemble an upper with heat in mind. It is a BCM upper with the pinned/welded 14.5" SOCOM barrel, chrome-lined 1/7 twist. I put the Troy handguards on it. It makes a fairly solid little package.

The standard M4 handguards, grips and other OEM equipment made by Colt/FN have been working for decades in actual use. People get bombarded by advertisements about "upgraded this and upgraded that" but the fact is that the standard equipment works and works well.

Just like Glocks. When I was working at the embassy outposts whenever someone would bring me a gun with a problem the first thing I would do is detail strip it and see if they had put any aftermarket/unauthorized parts in it. Then I would replace those parts with standard factory parts. Normally that fixed the problem right off the bat.

M16/M4 series were the same way. The more you stay true to mil-spec, the better they run. The more aftermarket crap guys would put in them, the more problems they would have. Putting extra power this and upgraded that was usually just a recipe for unreliability. Believe it or not, the engineers who designed produced and support the weapons systems for militaries that are in use all over the world actually know what they are doing.

I have worked on literally thousands and thousands of M4s, among other weapons systems.











In my personal guns I stick with bone stock Colt factory bolt carrier group parts and springs to ensure reliability, and my personal guns run, and run and run.

When someone who asks for a recommendation for an out of the box, simple solution rifle, I tell them to pick up either a Colt 6920, or 6720 (the skinny barrel version) or an FN model of the same thing. Both Colt and FN have been supplying our military with weapons for decades and know what they are doing. Skip the bushmasters, DPMS, and other bargain basement stuff.

That's cool.


This might end up costing me money after all!

I have a Colt SP1 made in 1964 and all the plastics stuff is still fine.

Thanks man. Just noticed your post.


What then are the availabile equivalent buttstocks and grips? I'll search a bit.... Don't really follow the GI stuff.

I see zero influencing advertising by the way.... My FN was a downgrade variety with Magpul MOE. A guy in the know poopooed it for being melty! I still think of it. Mainly just wondering if the materials are a concern. Apparently not. 👍

Again, thanks.

Apolyptic future? Step One - survive! Whole technique just to share here! Learned in fifties era as school kid. When the Nuclear Alert siren sounds, all you have to do is crawl calmly under your desk. Curl up and never forget... Hold your ears!

Nowadays, what to do without those old metal school desks... Unsure. But "Hold your ears!"

Guns are like, post survival stuff. Maybe build it yourself school desk... With a sling!

For every question, there's an... Idiot!



Best!

That is throughly useless input. Carry on.

I don't eff around.

Oh heck yah! Your years of couch have totally paid off bro! 😁

For a decent quality, American made front and rear flat top set of sights, Midwest Industries has a couple reasonable options. They have both fixed and folding versions. I have used both and they are solid built quality products. You can spend hundreds of dollars for a Knights Armament set of sights but really they don't do anything more than a good set of MI sights do.



https://midwestindustriesinc.com/gun-type/ar-15-accessories/ar-front-rear-sights/


GG&G is another outfit that I have used their iron sights on my guns and have no complaints. They are a bit more expensive, but are very well built. Both companies make a very well built product.

BTW,

There is nothing at all wrong with Magpul buttstocks/grips. They have been in use overseas for some time with various groups and are a proven design. I would caution against the Magpul handguards unless they had built in metal heat shields if you intend to do some high volume shooting, but other than that, their buttstocks and grips are good to go. In reality most won't ever shoot their guns enough for that to be a concern, but based on the what you are wanting, I would suggest a traditional handguard with shields.

You got me while editing, but, 100% answered my questions.

Now makes sense, it was the plastic handguard of concern. I think ya'll went to the same theater.... Much appreciated! I'll take this input forward... I have a few Midwest Industries items. Sounds good to me on the sights.



Thanks all. I need to get to Billings for Dale's aluminum foiling course....

Is this where I say F Yo Couch? Forewarning, tuition's a bish!

I've got a few of the Magpul handguards, rifle, mid, and carbine. They all came with metal heat shields under polymer.

Thats good to know then Montana Marine.

In that case, for the OP, there should be zero issue with them for his project. Their buttstocks are pretty darn good and I would not worry in the least about them in terms of long term durability.

Yep, my PSA MOE pistol too. Surely that addresses heat from sustained fire, which was originally not my intent to discuss here, although glad we did.

So full circle, simple answer seems to be no, we're not concerned about the non-metalic parts regardless of made up scenarios where metal would potentially perform better, because, in reality it's a non-issue. So, we'd be best to concern ourselves with the internal parts known most to matter. That's a wrap.


Thanks again all for killing the time, got some good ideas...

Meanwhile Kirk contemplates the impending defoililation...

If you are outside long enough for your plastic stock to disintegrate....you have long since died from skin cancer.

You don't really own guns, you are just their caretaker for a while.

I fully expect my guns to be capable of functioning 200 years from now. If they don't, they are junk.

So much iron in the words of this post.

The source.
The explanation.
The outcome.

Been thinkin about it for a couple days.