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antlers Offline OP
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Originally Posted by IZH27
I’m not familiar with the concept of a stricter covenant.
Jesus’ New Covenant command to love others…not as we would have them love us…but to love others as He loves us is way simpler, but a lot more difficult, than trying to follow a buncha rules and regulations (the old covenant), like makin’ sure your cups are clean (for example) or not wearin’ a garment made outta two different types of fabric (for example).


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Can you all please just STFU? IF you believe, does that get you where you want to be, For good life for crying out loud. We're all imperfect. live with it. God knows who you are and will judge acordingly.

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Originally Posted by Skankhunt42
Can you all please just STFU? IF you believe, does that get you where you want to be, For good life for crying out loud. We're all imperfect. live with it. God knows who you are and will judge acordingly.


Bud. Nobody took your hand and clicked on the conversation.

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Please consider what I say from this perspective. I spent over 40 years of my life bogged down in legalism. The influences? Pietistic Anabaptist, Separate Baptist works gospel, Wesleyan Holiness and a heavy influence of Wesleyan Christian perfectionism as if everything else wasn’t enough.

I could not have tried harder. I could not have been more sincere. I could not have wanted those things more than I did. I’m left with the fact that I never found transcendence. I never found a second work of grace. I never found myself to be good and improving.

Based on my experience and background I’ll ask a sincere and serious question of you guys that day that works are necessary. I’m not disputing that but your emphasis seems to be that works are a necessity after salvation or there is likely not gonna be salvation.

If works are indeed necessary for our continued justification before God you should be able to tell us a few things that you have done to improve your lot and your standing. What can you point to that demonstrates that you are or righteous and/or more holy?

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Regarding Salvation by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Jesus alone:

I absolutely and unequivocally believe that God loves us and forgives us and saves us...not because of who we are or because of anything we do...but because of what Jesus did on the cross. Period. Our best efforts would never be good enough to ‘earn’ salvation. To me, we are not saved by obeying a list of do’s and don’t’s, or a list of rules and regulations (old covenant), like not eating certain foods, or not crossbreeding livestock…but by God’s grace alone, through faith in Jesus alone...and not at all by our own efforts or works or anything else.


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Originally Posted by IZH27
Please consider what I say from this perspective. I spent over 40 years of my life bogged down in legalism. The influences? Pietistic Anabaptist, Separate Baptist works gospel, Wesleyan Holiness and a heavy influence of Wesleyan Christian perfectionism as if everything else wasn’t enough.

I could not have tried harder. I could not have been more sincere. I could not have wanted those things more than I did. I’m left with the fact that I never found transcendence. I never found a second work of grace. I never found myself to be good and improving.
I understand that completely.

I had a TERRIBLE temper. Not only was it hard/impossible for me to see that, once I did, it seemed impossible to change. Nothing seemed to work. I practiced meditation for over a decade with no change.

What I did was I gave up and asked Christ to do the heavy lifting. Though the grace of Christ through His sacraments and prayers, He slowly changed my heart. I had to cooperate, of course, but Christ did the heavy lifting.

Keep in mind that there may be crosses that Christ will not remove. These we should offer up to Him for our good and the good of others. Unite our suffering with Christ's. It brings us peace.


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Originally Posted by antlers
Regarding Salvation by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Jesus alone:

I absolutely and unequivocally believe that God loves us and forgives us and saves us...not because of who we are or because of anything we do...but because of what Jesus did on the cross. Our best efforts would never be good enough to ‘earn’ salvation. To me, we are not saved by obeying a list of do’s and don’t’s, or a list of rules and regulations (old covenant)...but by God’s grace alone...through faith in Jesus...and not at all by our own efforts or works or anything else.
We have to make the decision to accept Christ's offer.
After that, we must cooperate by doing His will. He will give us the strength to do those things through grace.


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Originally Posted by Skankhunt42
Can you all please just STFU? IF you believe, does that get you where you want to be, For good life for crying out loud. We're all imperfect. live with it. God knows who you are and will judge acordingly.
Yes, all imperfect. Live with it? Yes. I'm not rich either, but that doesn't keep me from striving. smile


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Originally Posted by Tyrone
Originally Posted by antlers
Regarding Salvation by Grace alone, through Faith alone, in Jesus alone:

I absolutely and unequivocally believe that God loves us and forgives us and saves us...not because of who we are or because of anything we do...but because of what Jesus did on the cross. Period. Our best efforts would never be good enough to ‘earn’ salvation. To me, we are not saved by obeying a list of do’s and don’t’s, or a list of rules and regulations (old covenant), like not eating certain foods, or not crossbreeding livestock…but by God’s grace alone, through faith in Jesus alone...and not at all by our own efforts or works or anything else.
We have to make the decision to accept Christ's offer. After that, we must cooperate by doing His will. He will give us the strength to do those things through grace.
That’s where you and I differ on this matter. I trust that Jesus’ sacrifice was fully sufficient for one’s salvation. Period. I have confidence in it. We can’t ‘add to’ what Jesus already did by observing a sacrament or by doing good works.


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Tyrone

How old were when this happened. What if it coincided with a change in testosterone levels as a natural result of aging?

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Originally Posted by antlers
Well many of the Christians here…from what I’ve read of their posts…don’t fit at all into your 90% mentioned above. And they most certainly don’t fit under your assertion that they’ve never made an in-depth analysis of Jesus’ teachings versus Paul’s. Or Paul’s teachings versus James, or Peter, etc.. There’re some clearly smart and insightful men here when it comes to Biblical knowledge, and nearly every single one of them that have responded to your posts have refuted your continued assertions regarding the Old Covenant, the Law and the Prophets, the divinity of Jesus, and most especially the teachings of Jesus versus the teachings of Paul; or Paul’s teachings versus those of James, or Peter, etc.. Regarding the last example, nearly every single one of them have pointed out to you that there are no contradictions at all…none…between Jesus’ teachings and those of Paul (or those of Paul versus James, or Peter, etc.). There are only things that people fail to grasp.

You continue to see things differently regarding these matters. But that’s OK. Differing opinions are OK. I certainly have my share of em’.
I'll have to admit I'm in a decided minority in not taking the writings of Paul as scripture. Most "Christian" churches do accept him and declare there is no contradiction. But a fairly sizable number although they are certainly a much smaller minority look at him as a false apostle.


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Originally Posted by Hastings
I'll have to admit I'm in a decided minority in not taking the writings of Paul as scripture. Most "Christian" churches do accept him and declare there is no contradiction. But a fairly sizable number, although they are certainly a much smaller minority, look at him as a false apostle.
Yeah. By the same token, a fairly sizable number, although they are certainly a much smaller minority, look at the earth as being flat, and look at the moon landings as being fake, and look at the Holocaust as having never happened.


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Originally Posted by TF49
For DBT and MauserMan…..

Perhaps take note that “church” can be seen as two completely different entities. The definition that is seemingly used by you in recent posts can be seen as “human founded religious organizations.”

This is not the same as the “church”…..the worldwide collection of “believers” …..this is the “Body of Christ.”

The Body of Christ is remarkably solid, doctrinely sound and cohesive in their basic beliefs….. and has been for almost 2000 years.

The binder within the “church”…..within the Body of Christ….is the eternal life giving ….indwelling of the Holy Spirit.

You cannot be a member of the Body of Christ by simply “calling yourself a Christian.”

You know, the wheat and tares thing.

Can you please explain:

1. Sectarian violence
2. Disagreements in this thread

So I can better understand this unified Christianity.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by antlers
Well many of the Christians here…from what I’ve read of their posts…don’t fit at all into your 90% mentioned above. And they most certainly don’t fit under your assertion that they’ve never made an in-depth analysis of Jesus’ teachings versus Paul’s. Or Paul’s teachings versus James, or Peter, etc.. There’re some clearly smart and insightful men here when it comes to Biblical knowledge, and nearly every single one of them that have responded to your posts have refuted your continued assertions regarding the Old Covenant, the Law and the Prophets, the divinity of Jesus, and most especially the teachings of Jesus versus the teachings of Paul; or Paul’s teachings versus those of James, or Peter, etc.. Regarding the last example, nearly every single one of them have pointed out to you that there are no contradictions at all…none…between Jesus’ teachings and those of Paul (or those of Paul versus James, or Peter, etc.). There are only things that people fail to grasp.

You continue to see things differently regarding these matters. But that’s OK. Differing opinions are OK. I certainly have my share of em’.
I'll have to admit I'm in a decided minority in not taking the writings of Paul as scripture. Most "Christian" churches do accept him and declare there is no contradiction. But a fairly sizable number although they are certainly a much smaller minority look at him as a false apostle.

I believe that they all were


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by Hastings
I'll have to admit I'm in a decided minority in not taking the writings of Paul as scripture. Most "Christian" churches do accept him and declare there is no contradiction. But a fairly sizable number, although they are certainly a much smaller minority, look at him as a false apostle.
Yeah. By the same token, a fairly sizable number, although they are certainly a much smaller minority, look at the earth as being flat, and look at the moon landings as being fake, and look at the Holocaust as having never happened.
I certainly believe the earth is basically but not perfectly round, and I know the Holocaust happened, I don't know about the moon landings though. And Paul raises too many suspicions for me, I prefer Jesus.


Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Jesus: "Take heed that no man deceive you."
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I just did and you did not get it.

Tares…. You don’t know what a tare is ….do you?


If you have a congregation with a preponderance of tares, it will be a devil’s playground.

I think you get it but are simply choosing not to see as the explanation does not fit your bias.


The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”

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Originally Posted by Hastings
Originally Posted by antlers
Originally Posted by Hastings
I'll have to admit I'm in a decided minority in not taking the writings of Paul as scripture. Most "Christian" churches do accept him and declare there is no contradiction. But a fairly sizable number, although they are certainly a much smaller minority, look at him as a false apostle.
Yeah. By the same token, a fairly sizable number, although they are certainly a much smaller minority, look at the earth as being flat, and look at the moon landings as being fake, and look at the Holocaust as having never happened.
I certainly believe the earth is basically but not perfectly round, and I know the Holocaust happened, I don't know about the moon landings though. And Paul raises too many suspicions for me, I prefer Jesus.

Antlers uses "minority" views to promote the success of Christianity (grew from a small beginning) and on the other hand uses it to dismiss others beliefs and understandings (you and Paul) - how convenient, can have it both ways.


Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by mauserand9mm
Originally Posted by Raspy
Whatever you said...everyone knows you are a lying jerk.

That's a bold assertion. Point out where you think I lied.

Well?
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Another try for MauserMan…..

Tare…

Matthew 13:24-30

From a commentary that is easily found if one desires to discover answers and truth….


“The enemy in the parable is Satan. In opposition to Jesus Christ, the devil tries to destroy Christ’s work by placing false believers and teachers in the world who lead many astray.”


The tax collector said: “Lord Jesus, have mercy on me, a sinner.” Jesus said he went home “justified.”

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Originally Posted by Hastings
…I prefer Jesus.
Yeah, me too. And it’s likely that 100% of the people on this board who profess to be Christians “prefer Jesus” as well. But this matter isn't seen by a single professed Christian here who has posted on these many threads as being an either/or position regarding Jesus and Paul. It’s both. There are no contradictions between the teachings of Jesus and the teachings of Paul. None. There are only things that people fail to grasp.


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Regarding the OP:

The approach to presenting the Gospel that most of us grew up with…the preaching, writing, teaching, and evangelism…and then inherited, might’ve worked on a culture that pretty much doesn’t even exist anymore. We live in a post-Christian culture where “the Bible says” clearly doesn’t carry the weight that it once did.

But the first-century followers of Jesus…especially the Apostles…showed us how to go about it. They put all of their eggs in one basket…the Easter basket…they leveraged the reality and the truth and the historical event of the resurrection. They drove it home. Maybe the church nowadays oughta do the same.

A simple change of approach…one that clearly grew Jesus’ ekklesia in the first-century against overwhelming odds…will likely have a much better result than what is still being done today, ‘if’ the church truly wants to reach unchurched and post-Christian people nowadays.

Apostle Paul was clearly more than willing to adjust his approach. He even used the words “By all possible means” to describe it. So maybe the present day church oughta adjust their sails and simply shift their approach for the sake of presenting the Gospel to these folks, and actually ‘reaching’ them with it.

The faith of current believers doesn’t depend on it (even though I think this insight can certainly strengthen one’s faith), but the faith of the next generation just might. It makes sense to me to make Christianity attractive again by stepping back onto the solid foundation of that of the first-century church; the foundation that gave rise to the original version of Christianity; a version that spread like an airborne contagion; a version that the ancient world found to be attractive and captivating.


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