Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Christianity could possibly become a minority religion in US as early as 2045…

Human minds, human thoughts, human beliefs. From this thing we call "God," we hear nothing.

Which is not to say that some may genuinely feel they are in a relationship with God and that God communicates with them.

I am reminded of Job 21…..

14 They say to God, ‘Depart from us!
We do not desire the knowledge of your ways.
15 What is the Almighty, that we should serve him?
And what profit do we get if we pray to him?’

There may be a reason some don’t hear from God….. they don’t want to.



Then there is this in 1 Chronicles…..

David's Charge to Solomon

“And you, Solomon my son, know the God of your father and serve him with a whole heart and with a willing mind, for the Lord searches all hearts and understands every plan and thought. If you seek him, he will be found by you, but if you forsake him, he will cast you off forever.


Seek….find…… don’t seek, don’t find

Thanks for that sir.

It’s clear that God initiated a relationship with His people before He even told them what the rules were. His rules aren’t given to establish a relationship. His rules are given to confirm an existing relationship. He gives rules of conduct to those who already belong to Him.

He made a choice to make us His own by grace. We enter that relationship through faith, accepting His offer of forgiveness for our sins. And then and only then do we become accountable to His prescription for living our lives.

God’s instructions for living our lives stand not as a gateway into a relationship with Him, but as a confirmation that we already belong to him.

Evidence... that's the atheist argument.

You brought up transcending earlier in this thread while quoting me, you approached me, I answered and this is a continuation of that same answer.

Kent

I've always been good at maths. Maths has real world meaning with demonstratable truths in its applications and outcomes.

Nothing to do with you not answering my questions, just another diversion.

You keep posting what I would if I was smarter.

Well, you do make me smile once in awhile…… carry on….

My study of the Catholic faith states that the Catholic Church has never taught such a doctrine and, in fact, has constantly condemned the notion that men can earn or merit salvation. Catholic soteriology (salvation theology) is rooted in apostolic Tradition and Scripture and says that it is only by God’s grace—completely unmerited by works—that one is saved.

Read the rest of the article that you got the above quote from, and it’ll clearly describe “the second half of the justification equation” that Catholics claim that “Protestants either miss or ignore” ~ referring to “the necessity of grace and works”. The Council of Trent clearly affirmed that both faith and works were necessary for salvation.

https://www.catholic.com/qa/why-does-the-church-teach-that-works-can-obtain-salvation

What did James say? Jesus never did nullify or in any way disparage Old Testament Law or the Prophets. In fact he endorsed them and emphasized their continuance. Even added stricter conditions requiring forgiveness by you to receive your own grace, forbidding you to hold on to whatever in your life caused your sin, i.e. I don't believe he advocated the actual amputation of your hand or the plucking out of your eye.

I do believe that Jesus offered salvation through grace and faith but it came through actual works and deeds that prove your faith. I do believe gentiles were offered the covenant but along the lines of Peter, James, Stephen and the Jewish apostles offer to move them into the Hebrew religion of Judaism rather than the government sanctioned church from Council of Nicaea that came in out of the cold and endorsed the Roman Empire. I'm guessing Romans 13:1 - 7 were outright forgeries or either clear evidence that Paul was a Roman agent. During that time all other renditions of Christianity were shoved aside and most likely brutally suppressed. And there was plenty of opposition to Paul in early Christianity.

After that the Roman Emperors using their army spread their version of Pauline Christianity with the threat of convert or get the sword. Charlemagne murdered religiously non compliant Saxons by the 1000s in the name of Jesus. What would Jesus have thought? And this went on for centuries.

That comes from human minds, human thoughts, human beliefs and human writers. From God, we hear nothing.

You offer us nothing other than human thought in your arguments. Then you demand material evidence in the presence of material evidence and extend that demand by expecting material evidence for anything metaphysical.

I get that. You don’t believe. You deny the evidence offered to you yet demand more. I believe that most here can live with your choice. Why can’t you live with the choice that believers make?

There is nothing that practically separates your beliefs from those of the Mormons, Watchtower Society, Islam or any other religion that bases faith in works.

To deny the deity of Christ is to deny the central point of Christianity, the very life and events that are given to us for salvation.

After Apostle Peter…speaking at the First Church Council at Jerusalem…made it crystal clear that Gentile followers coming to Jesus were not required to follow any of the old covenant (he questioned those who still advocated for the Mosaic Law by asking them why would they want to place this yoke ~ the old covenant ~ upon the Gentiles when even the Jews, and none of their Jewish ancestors, could even abide by it themselves…?), James…the brother of Jesus…got up to speak.

And he reminded all who were there that the Jewish prophets themselves predicted this, they foretold of the time when there would be a New Covenant, and that their prophets had told them that Israel was established to be a light to the Gentiles. And then James concluded with the decree that it was his judgement…as the leader of the church in Jerusalem…that they should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who were turning to God (by placing the yoke of the Law of Moses upon them).

The implications of these things were extraordinary within the context of the conversation. It was clear that God’s arrangement with Israel should now be retired from the equation. They realized that Jesus ushered in something brand new. And they realized that Jesus did not come to extend ancient Judaism or establish Judaism 2.0; He came to completely change the way that people relate to God.

The Old Testament was no longer the go-to source regarding any behavior for Jesus’ body of believers. The Jerusalem Council was saying to the Gentiles that they are not accountable to the Jewish Law. Period. God has done something new. And this New Covenant was better. It was less complicated, but it was far more demanding. When you begin to view every single person you are ever eyeball to eyeball with as made in the image of God, and a potential dwelling place for the Holy Spirit, you will treat them well. You will not need a buncha rules and regulations. You will treat them the way that God, through Jesus, has treated you.

This was something new, and better. The church leaders (like James and Peter) who were closest to the action…who understood better than we ever will…disengaged Jesus’ body of believers from the value system and the worldview and the regulations of the Mosaic Law. These church leaders detached the church from Judaism and the Law because they realized that those things were just a means to an extraordinary end. The Old Testament prophets predicted it. Jesus, at His Sermon on the Mount, said He’d fulfilled it, He’d landed that plane, He’d completed that assignment.

The Old Testament was the back story to the main story. This is what the church leaders (like James and Peter) came to realize. Jesus’ New Covenant is with the entire world, whereas the old covenant was an agreement with only the ancient Israelites. And Jesus’ New Covenant can stand on its own two first-century, nail-scarred, resurrection feet ~ it does not need propping up by the Jewish Scriptures or the Law of Moses.

James and Peter were on both sides of the equation, they were right at the epicenter, and they clearly chose to detach the Christian faith from their Mosaic Law and their Jewish Scriptures.

Correct.

If the term “Christianity” means anything at all its definition hinges upon the Trinity.

One can refer to himself as many things while denying trinitarian unity, but “christian” is not one of them.

This isn’t a matter of mere opinion or individual interpretation it is a matter that has been settled for 17 centuries within the Church… that is, the Eastern Orthodox, Roman Catholic, and Protestant traditions.

I believe that works and deeds can be a result of salvation, but they are not a requirement for salvation. I believe that salvation is not earned. It’s offered.

I don't think some of you understand the burdens that the Pharisee's placed on the Jews.
It was easy for someone who lived in Jerusalem to offer sacrifices at the Temple. But God wanted the World to be saved. Can you imagine the logistics of upholding the Temple system for a World-wide religion?

With the abolition of Temple sacrifices went the ceremonial and purity laws associated with it. The Temple sacrifice was replaced by the sacrifice of Jesus. The laws of love still stand and were in fact strengthened.

No, you are wrong. These quotes are from God’s handbook to man.

You may not hear from God but that alone does mean that nobody hears from God.

I hear from God.

Your premise is not only untrue but it,is also logically unsound.


However, the mere fact that you are ”here” on these Christian discussion threads is good. Although you would likely deny it, perhaps you and God are even now doing some “communicating.”

Lol. Yea. I ain’t gettin any prettier either.

I appreciate your honesty. Most won’t step up like that.

My question was really aimed at KRP and his claims of ascending/transcending.

Those athiests who say God doesn't speak, hasn't sought God with their hearts. God still speaks. You have to listen. He will not say or have you do anything contrary to His Word. His Word is Jesus. In the Old Testament, God showed His Holiness and His Hate of sin, thus demanding sacrifice. Jesus in the New Testament paid the sacrifice and rose from the dead. The New Testament shows Gods Love and Mercy. The entire bible is both sides of the same coin. There are thousands of testimonies where people have been at deaths door and saw or heard God and He sent them back. God works through His people today. Through faith you reach God, and He speaks with a "still small voice" to each believer. There are still miracles today. Doctors can attest to that.