Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Hunter's Campfire Christianity could possibly become a minority religion in US as early as 2045…

It’s also important to remember that the Ten Commandments were perfectly kept by Christ on our behalf because we remain incapable of keeping them. I believe that the importance of this is that we have a strong tencendy to think that we somehow do have that capacity.

There isn’t a person participating in this thread that gets through a single waking hour of a day without breaking all of the commandments. That’s why I can’t understand the idea that our “keeping the commandments” can possibly add value to our salvation. Everything that we do is tainted with our sinfulness, even the good thing.

Yes, you are correct....in James 2:24— it is about as plain as can be in telling us both that “faith alone” is insufficient for our justification, and that “works” are indeed necessary. Are we justified by faith? Certainly! By faith alone? No way! It’s both faith and works, according to Scripture.....seems I am always learning something new....thanks.

Is James referring to justification as that which replies to faith and salvation?
It’s quite apparent that he is not. He is very specifically talking about justification before men. That is the error of miss reading the book of James in regards to works.

Some see that James’ position doesn’t refute the “faith alone” part of the equation at all. The “faith alone” part of the equation still stands, but only the kind of faith that eventually and inevitably produces good works. Good works are not the basis, or foundation of salvation. Good works are the result of, the fruit of salvation. It isn’t good works that save or justify, they don’t qualify us to enter God’s presence. If people truly trust in Jesus, and put their confidence in Him, that trust and confidence shows up in how they live their lives.

That is a totally different thing than what Raspy is saying. Raspy is saying that there is justification in our works.

If there is justification in our works and that’s actually a Biblical doctor then raspy should be able to tell us what work he is doing to justify himself before God and help God save raspy.

Paul is very clear in the doctrine of imputation that we are justified solely through the work of Christ as it relates to salvation. Works have absolutely nothing to do with our justification before God for salvation. If I works do not save us there is certainly no way that they can’t keep us saved.

If works help save us then Raspy should well be able to tell us with clarity and specificity the works that he is doing to make himself more righteous and holy.

There has to be an understanding of what God desires.

God greatest desire is that we grow in love of Him and be as close to Him as possible. That is God's will in a nutshell.

You don't get there by failing to accept God's grace. Jesus' sacrifice is complete and sufficient, but you are not. By accepting Jesus, you might get to Heaven, but you still haven't fulfilled God's will for you. Works must follow faith. Becoming as close to God as He wills involves what you do after you accept the grace of His redemption - the works you perform. Works includes things you do such as prayer, worship, receiving the sacraments like baptism, praise, charity, the Beatitudes, picking up your crosses and much more as well as things you don't do - you don't neglect your responsibilities, you don't lead others astray, etc.

God's will for us is the basis of the all devotions and "laws" set out for us. If we follow them, we draw closer to God. If we don't, we either remain in place or we fall behind. You know what usually happens.

Growing in God's love is why God hates sins like murder. Murder denies the victim the opportunity to grow in God's love.

You guys innately understand this whether you acknowledge it or not. It's the whole problem with Leftism and the LGBT insanity. They reject God's gifts and refuse to fulfill the roles God has for them.

It is greater to understand what man is capable of in regard to what God expects. This is what separates the demand and curse of the law from grace.

Let me say that yes I do believe that salvation is a gift to undeserving mankind. I know what Jesus and John the Baptist had to say about it.

That said I've noticed that 90+ percent of nominal Christians have taken a differing doctrine preached after Jesus was gone by one who claimed to have seen him in the desert on the Damascus road. Jesus clearly warned that many would come in his name (Matthew 24). Jesus warned that some would claim he was out in the desert (again Matthew 24)

As for 90% of Christianity accepting a doctrine promulgated after Jesus left he warned "enter through the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. Because small is the gate and narrow is the way that leads to life and few there be that find it.

"Take heed that ye be not deceived, for many shall come in My name"

Question….. can a person once be saved then accept …..some?…. doctrine that is false? Does the type of false doctrine make any difference?



The thief on the cross knew little of “doctrine” but he knew enough of Jesus to be saved.

The wide gate is unbelief and materialism.

Sorry to be pedantic, but that's not something we know. He could have been a follower who "fell off the wagon" so to speak. Or who was being punished for crimes committed before he came to Christ.

I don’t know about that…. The thief cursed God…. Then offered up a confession of his own personal sin…. Then asked Jesus…. directly….to remember him when Jesus came into his kingdom….seems like a confession of faith to me.

Yep, seems like he knew enough about Jesus to be saved but knew nothing of what was to be written in the New Testament.

Again you eloquently state my thoughts. Thanks.

Be careful that ye be not deceived. That is a wide gate and a broad road that leads to destruction. If you see a huge "church(s)" and a large number of adherents headed off down a doctrinal road it is time to get suspicious.

The truth is a narrow gate and path and only a few will find it.

Jesus gave plenty of warning about this.

In Revelation 2 he commended the church at Ephesus for ousting guess who?

In 2nd Timothy 1:15 Paul admitted that ALL in Asia had turned away from him. Ephesus was considered Asia. He wasn't talking about China.

Think about it.

There never was a pathway to salvation through works.

Adam and Eve demonstrated this in their works after the fall.

When Moses addressed the Gospel in Genesis he talked about the Abrahamic covenant which was the salvation covenant. The mosaic covenant was not a covenant of salvation.

Moses, and this is repeated by Paul, stated that Abraham, as the father of faith, believed God and that this belief was counted as righteousness. That declaration, that salvation is through faith, was declared hundreds of years before the Law was given. Both testaments declare the same truth.

The reason the law was given was to compound sin and guilt. Not my opinion just simply what scripture teaches. The law was not given as a means of righteousness, the law being the 10 commandments. The law cannot bring any righteousness period. It can’t because men cannot perfectly keep the law at any point.

The law was the Torah. Torah is Hebrew for "law".

I think that in order for a person to come to the conclusions that you have above, one has to first start with the assumption that the Apostle Paul is a false apostle. I think that in order for one to even remotely get to where you are on the above, that one has to already believe that Paul was a false apostle. There’s no other reason to say that Revelation 2 is speaking about Paul specifically. I think you’re reading into the text what you want to be true, and you’re starting with the assumption that the Apostle Paul is a false apostle in order to get there.

Paul does refer to certain believers in the province of Asia (which is modern-day Turkey). He did a lotta missionary work there, including the city of Ephesus (that’s where Timothy was when Paul wrote this letter). During Nero's persecution of Christians, there were evidently many Christians that attempted to distance themselves from Paul after his arrest by Nero. That’s a pretty normal reaction for people hoping to avoid a similar fate.

Sorry, I cannot understand your reasoning....

Obedience to God is essentially requisite to maintain faith. Faith lives, under God, by works; and works have their being and excellence from faith. Neither can subsist without the other, and this is the point which St. James labors to prove, in order to convince the Antinomians of his time that their faith was a delusion, and that the hopes built on it must needs perish....

I began with the assumption that Paul was valid and the real deal although I did find him a bit confusing. I started reading the Bible much more in depth after I got a job that required me to hide out on surveillance for long hours and then started taking it with me while I hunted deer for hours at at time from a blind/stand. After I read from other sources that there was quite a controversy over Paul in the early church (prior to his trip to Rome) and read the history of Christianity being spread by terror and force (the catholics and even the Calvinists, Lutherans, etc) I began to wonder. So no, I didn't come in thinking Paul was a fraud.

For all I know some of the writings attributed to Paul were added to, redacted, or forged.

Also, we don't know from historical record what became of Paul, but for a time he is recorded as having a good bit of freedom after he decamped to Rome.

Totally different?

Sorry, but I agree with Antlers....>>>Some see that James’ position doesn’t refute the “faith alone” part of the equation at all. The “faith alone” part of the equation still stands, but only the kind of faith that eventually and inevitably produces good works. Good works are not the basis, or foundation, of salvation. Good works are the result of, the fruit of salvation. It isn’t good works that save or justify, they don’t qualify us to enter God’s presence. If people truly trust in Jesus, and put their confidence in Him, that trust and confidence shows up in how they live their lives.<<<