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Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by 79S
With all the high bc copper bullets availability Badlands, Hammer, Maker etc why even use Berger’s?

I have been too chickenshit for years to poke an animal bigger than a deer with them. Every time I get the idea I read about the bullet I wanna use doing wonky stuff so I end up migrating back to what I know.

I have used the Scenar quite a bit and it’s never done anything but good stuff so far. The heavy ELDs are and have worked nice for me as well. I guess it’s good to have choices.

My bud up here used badlands and he has harvested 4 caribou and 2 bull moose in the last 2yrs with them. His moose last year was 950yds I think. All one shot kills..


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
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Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by 79S
With all the high bc copper bullets availability Badlands, Hammer, Maker etc why even use Berger’s?

I have been too chickenshit for years to poke an animal bigger than a deer with them. Every time I get the idea I read about the bullet I wanna use doing wonky stuff so I end up migrating back to what I know.

I have used the Scenar quite a bit and it’s never done anything but good stuff so far. The heavy ELDs are and have worked nice for me as well. I guess it’s good to have choices.

My bud up here used badlands and he has harvested 4 caribou and 2 bull moose in the last 2yrs with them. His moose last year was 950yds I think. All one shot kills..

I’ve heard good things.

You tried them?


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I just got home from picking up two boxes and a 5 round sample pack of HSM's. In one of my favorite calibers. 300H&H. These have the 185gr. VLD-Hunting designation on the box.

I've been trying to locate brass that isn't available for what seemed like less than 5.00 a round. If you could even find it. Most was old stock boxes people had on Gunbroker.
Anyway, I called an old hunting buddy and ask if he had any he would part with. He said, "plenty friend how much do you need? "

Well he indeed did have several hundred rounds loaded and brass also. I just bought the HSM's as they are in Hornady brass and that's my preference. 140.00 bucks for 45 loaded rounds.
The bullets look like target bullets to me, and I would not hunt with them unless I had no other option. Thats just me though.

After reading through this thread, I believe I'll just run them through paper and then use the brass to roll my own with 180gr. Speer Grand Slams.

Last edited by Featherweight6555; 10/01/22.

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I've got two boxes of HSM 7Mag ammo, 168 VLDH that I'd trade, or sell to someone for a great deal if interested.


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Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by 79S
Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by 79S
With all the high bc copper bullets availability Badlands, Hammer, Maker etc why even use Berger’s?

I have been too chickenshit for years to poke an animal bigger than a deer with them. Every time I get the idea I read about the bullet I wanna use doing wonky stuff so I end up migrating back to what I know.

I have used the Scenar quite a bit and it’s never done anything but good stuff so far. The heavy ELDs are and have worked nice for me as well. I guess it’s good to have choices.

My bud up here used badlands and he has harvested 4 caribou and 2 bull moose in the last 2yrs with them. His moose last year was 950yds I think. All one shot kills..

I’ve heard good things.

You tried them?

I can’t afford that stuff I’m broke..


Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
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Originally Posted by 79S
With all the high bc copper bullets availability Badlands, Hammer, Maker etc why even use Berger’s?

Because the VLD kills better than monos.


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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by 79S
With all the high bc copper bullets availability Badlands, Hammer, Maker etc why even use Berger’s?

Because the VLD kills better than monos.
^^^^^^^ This^^^^^^^ The Bergers and JLK's I have used generally result in game dropping in their tracks or running around in a small circle of less than 20 yds.

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Well, a follow up on the HSM Trophy Gold ammo. 185gr. VLD-Hunting
I took my 300 H&H (1954 Model 70 26" barrel) to the range today along with a few others.
I changed the scope on the rifle this morning and boresighted it in the yard looking through the bore at a target 85 yards away.
Anyway, I had loaded 18 rounds in 6 round lots of 180 Grand Slams to try to find a load to work with.

Got to the range and set-up. Using the HSM stuff to make sure my zero was good I chronographed 5 shots. 10' from the muzzle.

Shot #1 2897 fps
#2 2914
#3 2783
#4 2808
#5 2850
Dang 2850 fps average with a 131-fps spread. Kinda underwhelmed with that velocity and ES.
I still managed a 15/16" group @ 100 Then moved to 200 and got 1 5/8" there. Accuracy, meh Ok. Not too bad for too much coffee and arthritis in my trigger finger, I guess.
Ok I'm good ,gonna shoot some groups with the Grand Slams I loaded.....Schiitte!! Left them @ home.

Had a new Ruger #1 45-70 with me that I've never shot. Three shots in I realize I can't see the sights and aim. 58 years old and irons are officially a no-go LOL. Putting a Nikon Monarch Gold 1.5x5 on it tomorrow.
Ramble over. FWT.


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I run the 150 VLD out of my .270 Wby at 3170 fps. If by hold up you mean expand into a nice mushroom and hold together, they won't. But if you want something to die and die fast, they are superb. Anytime I'm on a high dollar hunt where I want to really anchor animals, they are my go to.

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Thanks for the information everyone! All first hand experience is of value.


But as for me and my house we will serve the Lord. Joshua 24:15
I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. Phil. 4:13

I DON'T NEED A WSM AS I HAVE A WEATHERBY!
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I had a 7MM WSM built just for the 180 VLD-H. It’s a wonderful long range combination. Not really needed for sub-750 shots IMO.
But, you can shoot a long gun short, not a short gun long 😊


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‘Nother sample of one from a few weeks ago:

Grandson loaded 185 Bergers in his .308 and practiced to 500 yards for an alpine bear hunt.

Spotted a large boar at 400 one evening that fed out of sight before he could shoot so he and his partner sneaked closer, trying to spot the bear. In an amoeba shaped clearing suddenly grandson looked left and the bear was staring at him from 15 yards away. Bang, dead bear, recovered bullet weighed 32 grains.

Y’all carry on but that kind of high frangibility ain’t my thing.

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The deer I shot last season with a 143 ELDX dropped and never kicked. I think it's a great hunting bullet.
From what you guys are saying, I should prepare the grinder for the shoulders should I choose to use Berger -
that's fine by me. It doesn't cross the 2000 fps mark til about 600 so no problem in my terrain.

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Berger really need to keep updating their hunting bullets to get better bc's in some calibers. In .270, the 150 at .518 really needs to be over .600 (the 150 LRAB is .591), the 140 is better at .528 but really needs to be over .600 also. The 170 needs a bc of over .7. In .257 they need a 110 at over .5, the 115 should also be over .5, the 133 grain at .613 is fine. Compare these bc's to what the Super bulldozers get e.g .270 140 at .650 and .257 110 at .570...the Bergers are lagging a bit behind. But I like their accuracy and the way they perform on game, price is reasonable too.

Last edited by Riflehunter; 10/16/22.
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and to be real honest the old Nosler Partitions are still a better bullet to use on game at any speed .


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Originally Posted by pete53
and to be real honest the old Nosler Partitions are still a better bullet to use on game at any speed .


^^ Somedboy had the guts to say it! grin

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These animals were from a couple of years ago:
I will start this with a few observations. All bullets are designed with a use in mind. There is no one size fits all in bullets. I have no problems with other bullets. I have taken Barnes TTSX's and Nosler accubonds to Africa. Both have served me well. This last trip I took Bergers. I usually get extremely good accuracy and good results with them. Bergers are often used in longer range hunting and are designed to expand reliably at lower velocities. If you plan to use them I will strongly suggest that you heed the next observations:
1) Use heavy for caliber bullets. I used 180 grainers in my 7mm SAUM. If you use a faster bigger .28 caliber cartridges then use their 195 grainers. In .30 caliber use the 215 grain hybrid. Easy to load and deadly effective on game. In a .26 caliber use the 140's or 156's. Apply the same to other calibers.
2) Always check the points. Bergers are a hollow point design. Occasionally the point will be "clogged or closed". That bullet, if not opened, will act like a solid and pencil through an animal. A small drill bit should be used to make sure they are all open. If closed then use that one for practice or drill it open.
3) Do not expect reliable expansion at over 3000 fps. You are more likely to get over expansion at higher velocities along with poor penetration. My SAUM runs the 180's at 2900 fps. That is about right. My .30 Nosler runs the 215's at 2990. Works well too. I would not run them at 3200 fps and expect reliable close range expansion.
On to the point of this post. 16 animals of assorted sizes were taken with my SAUM and the 180 gr bullet's. They are as follows:
1) Cape eland cow at 469 yards. Hit slightly further back than wanted. Down and dead quickly.
2)Cape eland bull at 511 yds. Heart shot. Dead in less than 20 yds. Pretty impressive.
3)Springbock at 175-200 yds. Broadside shot slightly back and high. Down in its tracks.
4)Duiker spotlighted at maybe 40 yds quartering to me. High shoulder down in his tracks.
5)Vaal Rhebuck at 313 yds. Hit way back top of back. Spine hit. Down in his tracks.
6) Klipspringer at 269 yds. A little far back and high. Down and done in place.
7)Blesbuck cow at 130 yds? Back a little and a little high. Down immediately with no fuss.
8) Bull Livingston eland. Huge animal. 75 yds. First hit was high shoulder. Sraggered him. Went perhaps 75 yds and He appeared to be staggering when I hit him again up high mid body which put him down.
9)Hartebeest cow at 200 yds. Quartering slightly to me. Hit mid way up behind the shoulder. Went 40-50 yds.
10)2nd Hartebeest cow. Broadside at 80-90 yds. Hit behind shoulder. Went 30 yds or so.
11)Hartebeest bull at 150-170 yds quartering to me. Low shoulder into the heart. Went maybe 60 yds.
12) Bushbuck at 200 yds or a little more. Hit a little high behind the shoulder. Went perhaps 30 yds.
Mikes animals as follows:
1)Waterbuck at 150 yds broadside. Hit behind shoulder. Went about 70 yds.
2)Puku at 80-90 yds perhaps. Quartering hard away. Hit in front of hind quarter lining up on far shoulder. Went about 40 yds.
3)Bushbuck at 120 yds. Broadside. Behind shoulder. Went 25 yds.
4)Lechwe at 230 yds. Behind shoulder half way up. Down in its tracks. Kicked twice.
I will add the following NA animals for additional consideration:
A) 6.5-06 w/ 140 grain bullet. Bighorn ram at 100 yds. Broadside. Hit back too far. Got liver. Went perhaps 100 yds.
B) 180 in the SAUM. Antelope at 130 yds. A little high behind shoulder. Down in his tracks.
C)180 in SAUM Whitetail doe. 75 yds facing me. Down in her tracks.
D) 180 in SAUM WT buck. 300 yds. 1 shot in leg and one mid body. Went perhaps 30 yds.
E) 215 gr in .30 Nosler. Bull moose at just over 100 yds. Quartering to me. In front of shoulder. Went less than 20 yds.
F) 6.5 SS w/ 156 gr. Whitetail buck at 20 yds. Quartering away. High behind shoulder. Down in his tracks.
G) 6.5 w/ 156 gr Pronghorn buck. Broadside. Hit slightly low behind shoulder. Went 25 yds.
H) 6.5 w/ 156 gr. Pronghorn doe at 325 yds. Behind shoulder a touch high. Down in her tracks.
Notice that I needed more than 1 shot on a wt buck that I screwed up on and the Livingston eland that likely didn't need it.
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I vaguely recall that Berger did not recommend them as a hunting bullet but lots of people wanted to use them because they liked the accuracy.

I used them one time.
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

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Originally Posted by Alamosa
I vaguely recall that Berger did not recommend them as a hunting bullet but lots of people wanted to use them because they liked the accuracy.

I used them one time.
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Nice bull, and a fine shot! Looks like ideal performance, as well. What was the problem?


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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Originally Posted by Alamosa
I vaguely recall that Berger did not recommend them as a hunting bullet but lots of people wanted to use them because they liked the accuracy.

I used them one time.
[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]
Nice bull, and a fine shot! Looks like ideal performance, as well. What was the problem?

No gripes here. I don't reload and buy most of my ammo at the feed store.

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