Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Ask The Gunwriters Beating a dead horse

I realize this topic has been beaten up time and again but a recent email from Midway USA has prompted me to bring up the subject and solicit any of the Gun Writers to peer into their crystal balls and see if there is any hope.

For almost 3 years now it has been almost impossible to find primers, at least if you are unwilling to shell out $200+ for a brick of primers. I received an email today from Midway, the text of the email follows.

"Product Notification No Longer Available
Product No Longer Available - Winchester Large Rifle Primers #8-1/2 Box of 1000 (10 Trays of 100)"

It wasn't clear if Midway was saying Winchester isn't supplying primers for sale any longer, or, if Midway was tired of having people queued up for a product that has no availability in sight.

As the time has passed, I had assumed that like all the other shortages in the past, time would heal and the product would eventually reach shelves once the panic buying was finished.

But unlike Toilet Paper, primers remain unavailable from retail shelves or internet at any reasonable price. Like many old geezers who have seen shortages come and go, I thought my stash of primers would last until the market rebounded. As I am now down to less than 300 large rifle primers from the 3 and 1/2 bricks I had when this drought started, my past experiences seem no longer true.

As I am now in my 8th decade of life on this earth I am now wondering if primers (and thus reloading) have any future of being found, at least as long as I remain upright and breathing.

So, I'd appreciate any insights those who derive their livelihood from the sport of shooting/hunting/reloading if they can shed any predictions if a change is in sight and if the "product no longer available" is a harbringer of years to come.

TCRken

Brother, I'm in your age group. I can remember when they were a penny a piece, & bulk powder was 3 bucks a pound. There are profiteers in every business. I put Midway on the back burner years ago. They make big profits & give some to the NRA...PHEW I have to hold my nose when I say that !!!!!!!!!

Understand your thoughts but remember, gas is around $4,
a 15 year old can make $14/hr working at a convience store,
ribeyes are $14-16/# at the grocery store.

We are never going to buy bricks of primers or pounds of powder
for low $20s again. Hopefully, sometime soon they do drop to much
less than $20/100.

Scheels in Eden prairie Mn had CCI SR on the shelf yesterday, $89/1000.
Didn’t buy any, I’m in good shape component wise.

TCR, since you are, by post count, relatively new, and since you are of a similar age to me, I am going to attempt to protect you from the ridicule of the 'fire by explaining "its" position on this matter before the militia arrives to set you straight.

Let's say that you and I are 70. By the time that we were 10 (really before that), we should have had our lazy asses out in the world earning enough to not only support our shooting habit, but to help our parents raise the family as well. Throughout the years, we should have been able to purchase a brick of primers every payday (the usual measure of basic acquisition assigned by the 'fire). For the sake of argument, let's establish that "payday" occurred every two weeks. Now, let's say that, even with retirement (remember, we're lazy asses) that would give us 60 years of "paydays" (we still have S.S. and other sources of income today). Let's give ourselves a break and say that there have been 6 years during the last while that primers were all but unobtainable. That leaves us with 54 years times 26 "paydays" = 1,404 bricks of 1,000 primers each, which = 1,404,000 primers. Now let's say that, not to be total pikers, we shot away 500 of those 1,000 primers each two weeks. That means that had we exhibited the kind of foresight that would make us real 'fire members, we would today have 702,000 primers in our bunkers and wouldn't have a care in the world. :grin

What? You only thought to buy one brick a week?

Frickin funny as helll

Don’t if this is any help….
The good news is demand is falling off and is most likely going to decrease even more.

The bad news is, thanks to Putler and the Chinese, a large swath of countries are planning on expanding their militaries, increasing their stocks of munitions, and replacing munitions expended in Ukrain.

The rumor is (emphasis on rumor) Enduron production was preempted by military contracts to supply powder for munitions.

I was able to find Remington 9 1/2 ‘s. Today at our local Black Sheep sporting good store . Cost me $106 for a 1000. They had around 50 bricks . First time in three years they have had any main line rifle primers. Best Buy ‘em when you find em.

I appreciate the responses and acknowledge I am not expecting primer prices to fall to what they were pre-pandemic. My question to the "ones in the know" is if their crystal ball can see if they will be available to be found in the foreseeable future?

I have been reloading for 4o+ years now and have never encountered a dearth of supply as I have seen these past pandemic years. I was offered a brick of old Winchesters (the old white box) for $220 (plus shipping and handling) but passed on that.

I realize that Delaware is not a rifle hunting hot spot, having left Colorado to retire here on my 70th year a decade ago (grandchildren says it all), but still I was able to buy Federal, Winchester, Remington, and Sellier & Bellot primers at Cabela's or some the local gun stores. Now, nothing. Having checked all the internet suppliers for these years... "out of stock" seems to be Indelibly printed on the websites.

Perhaps I am unique in this experience and primers (especially large rifle) are to be found by those in the know but I defer to the knowledge of those who derive their livelihood around this business. I have yet to read any article in "Rifle, Handloader, American Rifleman, Shooting Times, etc." that has gone to any depth to make a prediction. The pat answer seems to be that the munitions makers are full time 24 hour shift barely meeting major caliber ammunition demands and things like reloader supplies are not on the "back burner" but somewhere in a basement cabinet.

So, if any of you folks that derive your livelihood in the shooting sports industry, I and perhaps others would welcome your insight and prognostication.

As an old geezer of 80 years, I still find it possible to hobble out to my local gun club range and poke holes in paper but am quickly running out of the things that make that "bang"

TCRken

I have made most of my living writing for various gun/hunting magazines for around 30 years now--and posted the following not too long ago on this forum:

Yes, primers will be available again.

Apparently many handloaders still haven't noticed the patterns of the past several "shortages" of reloading components and ammunition. They have always occurred when a Democrat president threatens to pass more "gun laws"--but the only time any substantial change actually occurred was during the Clinton administration, when the so-called "assault rifle ban" was enacted. That started the first buying panic by handloaders, which caused BIG shortages of primers, partly due to a rumor going around that all newly manufactured primers were designed to "go dud" within six months. This caused some handloaders to buy all the "old" primers they could find, and hide them--or even put them inside PVC pipe and bury the pipes in their yards.

There are other reasons primers can become in shorter supply, such as build-ups of military ammo--and some of that is happening now. But the major reason for primer (and powder, brass and ammo) shortages is shooters buying up more, whether a "lifetime" supply, or just several times as much as they usually buy. I still know guys in my small Montana town that are so unaware of this pattern that a year or so ago they went to local stores to buy a couple hundred primers, or a pound of their favorite powder--and were astonished when they couldn't, because other handlloaders had bought all the available primers and powder already. These are guys around my age, who went through the Clinton primer shortage, the Obama shortages (especially of rimfire ammo), and now the Biden shortages.

There are signs that this is exactly what's happening again. For one thing, the retail supply of rimfire ammo isn't much affected. I can walk into any of the local stores that supposedly don't have any primers and buy plenty of .22 Long Rifle ammo, apparently because so many people "stocked up" on it during the Obama panic. As a result, not many people are buying it now--whether for their own use, or for resale at a profit. There's just too much rimfire ammo already out there in basements, garages, etc.--the reasons there are stacks of rimfire ammo available in all the local stores, at pretty much normal prices.

The other consistent pattern is that almost as soon as a Republican president is elected, the shortages cease. This happened when George W. Bush was elected, and when Trump was elected. They had nothing to do with getting more stuff made, but their election caused shooters to quit panic-buying.

There are other patterns that occur, though. One is that components--especially primers and brass--become less available around this time of year, because ammunition companies are producing and shipping more for fall hunting seasons, many of of which have already started. The statistic I've seen most often in the shooting industry is that only about 10% of hunters and even target shooters handload, and while they may shoot more than the average hunter, they many not shoot more than some target shooters. (Only a couple years ago some of my friends were buying all the target ammo they wanted, whether centerfire rifle or shotgun, at "normal" prices.) Right now the factories are cranking out ammo for the vast majority of hunters who don't handload--which ties up lots of primers, brass and bullets.

I also know that at least some local gun stores DO have a good supply of powder and--but not out on the shelves where anybody can grab it. Instead it's in the back room, reserved for regular customers, who aren't going to buy a bunch just to stick in their loading room--or try to resell at a profit. Was just in the local ranch-supply store yesterday, which has the biggest gun department in my small town, and there were not only tall shelves well-stocked with ammo (including rimfire, shotshell, and centerfire rifle from .223 on up), but a bunch of powder on a shelf behind the counter, with a limit of two cans per customer of any one brand.

If you don't have an accurate 22 LR rifle then purchase one and shoot 22 LR. It is inexpensive, no reloading, easier on the pocketbook and shoulder and a heck of a lot more challenging than shooting centerfire.

Yes, I know it sounds like a "wimpy" way out but being in your age group and frankly being tired of the outrageous prices being asked for components it is a reasonable answer to shooting a lot with readily available ammunition.

drover

This is exactly what came to my mind. Was looking and the western county I reside in is substantially larger than Delaware and we have substantially more terrain features with only 11-12k residents. I couldn't figure where in Delaware one could even touch off an cartridge that required an large rifle primer. I could see having an AR 5.56 or 9mm for protection and maybe a 22lr but I'm lost on where you'd use an actual high powered rifle.

Thanks to all that replied. I take it from Mule Deer's response is that at least until sometime in 2024 the well will still be dry. No doubt about it, living in Delaware severely hobbles my chances of finding a brick of large rifle primers to be somewhere around winning the lottery.

Hopefully, when that time arrives, I will still be upright and breathing... and able to hobble out to the 200 yard range.

I appreciate the advice on the 22LR. I have a beautiful Winchester 52 Standard Target with the bull barrel and Redfield Olympic sights. This rifle older than I am will shoot better than I ever could, but even with these old eyes it does get a bit repetitive after a while.

About 30 years ago I got tired of conventional calibers and rifles and took up an 1886 Winchester with provenance of 1890 and had been rebarreled into the "modern 33 WCF" by Winchester sometime before the first world war. Loading and shooting it got me hooked into resurrecting old and obsolete rifles and cartridges. As you can see, from my "handle" I had been a TCR 83/87 collector and also fell along with Ruger "1's and 3's.

These and willing gunsmiths proceeded to improve the local economy along the front range in Colorado to have barrels of various calibers that last saw production in the 30's replace those that were "modern". My last elk was taken in my 68th year with a Ruger #1 in 40-82 WCF. So, yes, I classify as a rifle crank. Shooting 32-40's, 45-60's, and other calibers of the like has been my enjoyment over these past 20 years... thus my use of Large Rifle primers. BTW, still looking to see how you (Mule Deer) did with your 32-40 Marlin and if it did in some white tail or mulie?

The interesting thing is over those years I've seen some of these calibers resurrected for different reasons but allowing me to save time in manufacturing brass. The one oddity, one would think, is I have mostly used rifles with more or less modern steels with smokeless powder and (mostly) single shots allowing use of spitzer bullets.

An old mans enjoyment to see how good a 100 year plus cartridge design can perform with more or less modern components.

So, thanks gents. I see that the primer well will be dry in my neck of the woods.

TCRken

I think I’m good on primers, powder, and brass. I may find myself short on bullets if I’m not careful. I’m good on handgun ammo since I cast my own bullets, but jacketed rifle needs to be watched carefully. I’m buying as often as I find what I shoot.

TCRken,
I shan't jump into the primer discussion - I have a far bleaker subject to share with you:
If you are 80 years old, as you wrote in your second post, you are not "in [your] 8th decade of life" as you wrote in your first post. You are now in your ninth decade, which confers bragging rights, in my opinion. Your eighth decade ended the day you turned 80.
That said, may you greatly enjoy your ninth and tenth and even beyond! Glad you're here with us.
Cheers,
Rex

ya!


GWB

Stoped by my local gun store and was glad to see powder and bullets on the shelves. It’s been there most of this bout but in smaller quantities. The owner keeps the price high and has a limit. But it’s there. No primers to be seen. I didn’t ask. (There are still a few in my stash due to getting that 22lr mentioned above.). But I’d guess the back room has a few for customers that buy a rifle or are regulars. I am sympathetic to your situation. It’s a darn shame to own a rifle you like to shoot and have to hold back due to shortages of one component required to make it go off. And that feeling isn’t going to help the situation when we all adjust the level we maintain for a years storage of components due to the length of this cycle.

Shamans seldom use crystal balls. Personally, I find it gives me headaches.

I've decided to sidestep the primer issue entirely. I am currently working up a deer load for my new Pedesoli Brown Bess musket. It is a flintlock, and therefore immune to the vagueries of ammunition availability. I've got enough lead to last until well past my expire date.

I have invested in a quantity of stump remover, and flours of sulphur. Combined with homemade charcoal, and run through a sieve, I've got the powder. I have stockpiled English flints, but if those give out, I have only to drive out to the highway cut. There is a local chert that was used by the Shawnee back in the day. It requires heat treating, but all that means is that I need to bury it in the ashes of a campfire for a few hours.

#2 son, Moose, has followed me into this endevor. He recently purchased a .32 Cal Mountain rifle with which he's pestering the squirrels.

Bottom line: when life serves you lemons, it is time to switch to root beer.

As I related the other day in another thread, last Wednesday I was in a store in nearby VA and took a good look at the components they had, mostly out of curiosity as I’m well-stocked with what I use. They had quite a few primers, and some variety in make as well as size. The price for all types was just under $16 a flat, $160 a brick, well above the going rate on the web when they infrequently appear, which is probably why they had them. So it appears primers are to be found, but it may take some “innovative” shopping and persistence on your part to find them, and also a willingness to pay the going rate when you do. I’ve found that signing up for notifications with online sellers effective, but you have to cast a wide net and jump when they come through, and I mean jump right now, not after you finish your sandwich, because thousands of others are poised to do the same thing.

Meanwhile, the suggestion to branch out with something like a nice .22 is a good one to keep you in the game and maybe create a new enthusiasm. The same applies to some CFs as well, .223, .308, and 6.5 Creedmoor ammo is available all over the web at decent prices, as well as some others. I’ve been shooting a fair amount of factory ammo myself, a huge departure for me, because the numbers and supply problems combine to make it competitive with rolling my own, not to mention the time saved. I’ve purchased excellent .223 for about $.70 a pop, and 6CM for about $1, and had good brass leftover that can be refilled (someday, for those without primers) or sold.

You can keep shooting, but may need to shoot something other than your first preference, and might have to spring for something that can easily be fed.

Good luck.