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.. I’m at the point where the gun(s) are shooting a single hole at 100 yards with darn near anything I throw at them….

I’m going to start load dev at 600 yards soon…. What’s your yardage for load development.

My goal is 3” or less groups at 1k….

I’m still waiting on my Auto-trickler, it should be here anytime now….


smile I guess there are worse problems to have.

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Good luck with the 3" group at 1k..don`t think you can hold that close, and you will not find conditions to ever be favorable. but give it a try.
I tested all my HP loads at 300. that`s a different game tho. On rapids, looking for less that MOA.

Good Luck.

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I'm assuming you are tuning an F class setup. The guys here in Phoenix are testing loads from 600 all the way out to 1000 which is the same as I do with my .308 Palma rig.

At both distances look at the waterline height if wind conditions aren't the greatest. I'm very happy with sub moa vertical at 1k and when it is repeatable I consider development done. I'd prefer to wear out a barrel with a single load, but with current powder availability I am playing with 4 powders.

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Correction, 5 powders. Life used to be much simpler...

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I’m going to test at 600 over at Vapor Trail up in Missouri.. I think a lot of guys use what range they have which is typically 300 yds.

I have a shot marker system so I can see my hits without rolling to the targets so that should make it a lot easier.


On the “ can’t do it” …. If I’m shooting without with at the break of dawn, with a good load 3” should be do-able, provided the gun, bags, and glass are there…
Heck I’m shooting 5-6” right now in the wind so it’s logically my next step with no wind…

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I'm fortunate to have a thousand yard range 30 minutes away. Shooting at 600 Thursday and 1000 on Friday and next Thursday. Then a dry spell for a few days while it is tied up for the F class Nationals.

The e targets are great for both practice and load development. The F Class guys run ladders at 1000 with them.

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There, see...I`m thinking HP with sling and Irons..my bad.

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I use the Audette method that I have modified at 550 yards (just cuz there’s a berm there)

I make my own Shoot-N-See targets. A bullet hole at that range can be seen through your scope without having to drive down to the target after each shot to record it. Spotting scope makes it easy.

Cases are prepped and charged at home, taken to the range with your press, and bullet seating done on site.

PM member GSSP for a link to a good write up he did on longrangehunting.com.


Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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I think John A. here in Phoenix (then?) described your home made Shoot N See targets to me a few years back. Clever solution.

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Originally Posted by CGPAUL
There, see...I`m thinking HP with sling and Irons..my bad.
I shoot sling'n'irons as well, but when developing loads I stick on the optical sighting devices! ( grin)
For years I used 100 yards for initial testing , but the last few years I have been doing load developmet at 200 or 300 meters, then running the same load at 600 to check it.
Then the danged scope comes off and we get down to business!
The wind - and lately the amount of clothing I need to shoot with work a lot more against me than my loads do, for sure!
Yesterday I was shooting at 800 meters in -14c temps and overcast, shot 6 inners and one bull at 03:0, moved the rear sight 1MOA and shot a magpie at 11:00 and 0ne at 01:30!
Moved the sight back, and adjusted my sling a bit, and shot three V's in a row, all with the same ammo that was super accurate . Jeepers I am my own worst enemy! LOL
Cat


scopes are cool, but slings 'n' irons RULE!
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Originally Posted by Bristoe
The people wringing their hands over Trump's rhetoric don't know what time it is in America.
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Originally Posted by catnthehat
Originally Posted by CGPAUL
There, see...I`m thinking HP with sling and Irons..my bad.
I shoot sling'n'irons as well, but when developing loads I stick on the optical sighting devices! ( grin)
For years I used 100 yards for initial testing , but the last few years I have been doing load developmet at 200 or 300 meters, then running the same load at 600 to check it.
Then the danged scope comes off and we get down to business!
The wind - and lately the amount of clothing I need to shoot with work a lot more against me than my loads do, for sure!
Yesterday I was shooting at 800 meters in -14c temps and overcast, shot 6 inners and one bull at 03:0, moved the rear sight 1MOA and shot a magpie at 11:00 and 0ne at 01:30!
Moved the sight back, and adjusted my sling a bit, and shot three V's in a row, all with the same ammo that was super accurate . Jeepers I am my own worst enemy! LOL
Cat

Good to see another Palma/TR /Fullbore shooter member here. I know there are a few...

What power scope do you put on for testing? I haven't done that yet, mostly just lazy, but my irons with a +0.5 diopter in the front tunnel work well enough to discern differences in loads while shooting slung up. I just rotate a test load into an e target practice session and kill two birds with one stone. I'll see if I can get a some screenshots posted from my 1000 yard load test from Thursday.

Last edited by MikeS; 12/31/22.
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Originally Posted by MikeS
Originally Posted by catnthehat
Originally Posted by CGPAUL
There, see...I`m thinking HP with sling and Irons..my bad.
I shoot sling'n'irons as well, but when developing loads I stick on the optical sighting devices! ( grin)
For years I used 100 yards for initial testing , but the last few years I have been doing load developmet at 200 or 300 meters, then running the same load at 600 to check it.
Then the danged scope comes off and we get down to business!
The wind - and lately the amount of clothing I need to shoot with work a lot more against me than my loads do, for sure!
Yesterday I was shooting at 800 meters in -14c temps and overcast, shot 6 inners and one bull at 03:0, moved the rear sight 1MOA and shot a magpie at 11:00 and 0ne at 01:30!
Moved the sight back, and adjusted my sling a bit, and shot three V's in a row, all with the same ammo that was super accurate . Jeepers I am my own worst enemy! LOL
Cat

Good to see another Palma/TR /Fullbore shooter member here. I know there are a few...

What power scope do you put on for testing? I haven't done that yet, mostly just lazy, but my irons with a +0.5 diopter in the front tunnel work well enough to discern differences in loads while shooting slung up. I just rotate a test load into an e target practice session and kill two birds with one stone. I'll see if I can get a some screenshots posted from my 1000 yard load test from Thursday.

That depends on the rifle, a couple just have 0MOA Weaver bases on them , so I use a 3-16X Leupold on them generally. For the ones with a Picatanny rail, I have an older IOR Valdada 9-36X that is a beast and super accurate .
Cat


scopes are cool, but slings 'n' irons RULE!
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Thanks for the info. I have a Weaver T10 I've thought of pulling off of my old silhouette rifle for testing, but not sure if gain that much, especially at 1000 yards.

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Last week I decided to do a seating depth comparison during one of our 1000 yard practice sessions. I had started experimenting with Berger 155 hybrid bullets in my Palma rifle a few months ago. They seemed to shoot with about the same accuracy as the Berger 155.5 grain fullbores I have been using successfully, but are aerodynamic enough to print about 1.5 MOA higher at 1000 yards. My initial seating depth was an educated guess based on conversations at our practices, and they shot well. Now that our State Championship match has passed, decided to experiment, and loaded up a few 0.015" deeper for grins.

Below is a 10 shot string at the original seating depth. I had just shot a string with the fullbores, and you can see the first sighter printed high. Once I had the group centered I did not touch the elevation dial on the rear sight for shots 1-10.

[Linked Image]

I followed this group up with those seated 0.015" deeper. The wind angle had changed and required a shift to center the group. Again the elevation was not adjusted once the record shots started.

[Linked Image]

I was surprised to see the much tighter cluster shown (the grid is 1 MOA) and will try to verify the results in additional side by side comparisons. Both groups had a single bad flyer, a 9 for one and an 8 for the other. Unfortunately I have to say they were both on call and I won't hold them against the load results.

Shooting with a sling and irons, I have found this sort of comparison a decent way to dial in loads and also get in match practice. The F class guys we shoot with do run the pure ladder type tests with their much more stable set ups.

Happy New Years!

Last edited by MikeS; 01/01/23.
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All my 1k competition loads were worked up at 100 yards thru a chrono. A one hole group was less accurate versus a larger round group at 1k. If a bullet is stable for one hole groups at 100 yards, is it still stable at 1k? I thought not. The lower the SD the better. 240 Mk at 2985 SD of 3 was a winner all day. Take 2 or 3 best loads and verify at 1k early morning before the thermals get too bad or right before a storm. Wait for it to lay down is my point. Albeit I shot from a bench same should apply for all platforms. Just my .02

Rich

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Originally Posted by Jr1000yarder
All my 1k competition loads were worked up at 100 yards thru a chrono. A one hole group was less accurate versus a larger round group at 1k. If a bullet is stable for one hole groups at 100 yards, is it still stable at 1k? I thought not. The lower the SD the better. 240 Mk at 2985 SD of 3 was a winner all day. Take 2 or 3 best loads and verify at 1k early morning before the thermals get too bad or right before a storm. Wait for it to lay down is my point. Albeit I shot from a bench same should apply for all platforms. Just my .02

Rich

How many shots do you use to establish an SD estimate?


"In the real world, think of the 6.5 Creedmoor as the modernized/standardized/optimized version of the 6.5x55/.260." John Barsness 2019
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5 shot string. Then verify best results at long Range. With the proper case prep, bullet prep, and obviously the correct load, SD of 5 or less should be the winner. Somewhere I have my printouts. Been a long time, but I still remember my methods and best loads.

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On a side note, bullet prep is equally as important as case prep and loading accuracy.

The the tips ain't good, at long Range they definitely ruin a good group

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Are you familiar with the variability of SD estimates calculated from small sample sizes?


"In the real world, think of the 6.5 Creedmoor as the modernized/standardized/optimized version of the 6.5x55/.260." John Barsness 2019
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