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I'm on my 3rd 8#dr of CFE223 all in 204s I find it 2 be a very good powder, easy to clean up a barrel and I have a bore scope.


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Originally Posted by Joe
After shooting a couple of cases of FFg black, nothing seems dirty burning in the smokeless area. grin

lol......


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I've shot a lot of CFE BLK and CFE Pistol, and found them to be pretty clean in comparison to other powders I had been using in the same cartridges.

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Sounds like the same problem as the new M16s in Vietnam that "never needed cleaning". People see anti-fouling and quit taking care of their rifle.

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Originally Posted by Tyrone
I don't think the fouling is carbon so much as it's the decoppering agent.

And why do think that?


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FWIW since we are talking about carbon. CRC GDI intake valve cleaner works very well for removing carbon.

Last edited by BWalker; 10/06/22.
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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Originally Posted by Tyrone
I don't think the fouling is carbon so much as it's the decoppering agent.

And why do think that?

That is interesting. I have recently been shooting some loads with powder that has the decoppering agent in it and the bore looks pretty clean afterwards. Very easy to clean up too.. I didn't know what to expect, so I kept an eye on the bore. Time will tell, but it looks like a pretty good concept to me..


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
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Bsa,

I have used a bunch of different decoppering powders in the past few years, my experience is they don't leave as much powder fouling as many other powders, especially with close-to-maximum loads. But that's pretty common, except with older-style spherical powders.

In fact they've work so well than during some of my recent "load test" articles I deliberately alternated handloads with decoppering powders with "standard" powders--and checked the bore with my Gradient Lens bore-scope after each range session. Never found more than a faint trace of copper--partly because decoppering powders will indeed remove copper left after firing standard powders.

One of these tests involved around 150 rounds in a Mauser M18 7mm Remington Magnum. I never cleaned it throughout the tests, and it was still grouping great, with very little coppering. In fact, I have generally come to the conclusion that using decoppering powders will will "break in" new barrels (like the one in the M18) without the tiresome process of frequent cleaning. This is because they leave so little fouling that the bullets are pretty much running through a clean bore, allowing bullets to smooth the bore.

Of course, the other factor is that so many of today's factory barrels are very smooth, even in inexpensive rifles.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Bsa,

I have used a bunch of different decoppering powders in the past few years, my experience is they don't leave as much powder fouling as many other powders, especially with close-to-maximum loads. But that's pretty common, except with older-style spherical powders.

In fact they've work so well than during some of my recent "load test" articles I deliberately alternated handloads with decoppering powders with "standard" powders--and checked the bore with my Gradient Lens bore-scope after each range session. Never found more than a faint trace of copper--partly because decoppering powders will indeed remove copper left after firing standard powders.

One of these tests involved around 150 rounds in a Mauser M18 7mm Remington Magnum. I never cleaned it throughout the tests, and it was still grouping great, with very little coppering. In fact, I have generally come to the conclusion that using decoppering powders will will "break in" new barrels (like the one in the M18) without the tiresome process of frequent cleaning. This is because they leave so little fouling that the bullets are pretty much running through a clean bore, allowing bullets to smooth the bore.

Of course, the other factor is that so many of today's factory barrels are very smooth, even in inexpensive rifles.

Thanks for the info John. When I first saw powders like CFE223 that claimed to have decoppering agents in the powder, my first thought was it was going to wear the barrel more. With posts like the ones above where they used multiple 8 pound containers worth of powder in their rifles, that makes me feel better. I know most of you guys DBC your barrels and that should help with wear as well, but from what I've seen with some of these powders, it looks pretty good.


Originally Posted by raybass
I try to stick with the basics, they do so well. Nothing fancy mind you, just plain jane will get it done with style.
Originally Posted by Pharmseller
You want to see an animal drop right now? Shoot him in the ear hole.

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John, very interesting info. Much appreciated! Now that IMR has discontinued the Enduron line of powders, are the Alliant R16, R23, R26 etc powders the only currently manufactured powders that contain the decoppering agents? Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t unaware of others. Thanks!

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The Hodgdon CFE line all have decoppering stuff in them. CFE Pistol is with absolutely zero doubt the cleanest stuff I've ever used in any of my handgun cartridges.I can shoot 100 rounds of CFEP loads in my 327 Fed and the gun is less dirty than if I shot 10 rounds loaded with 2400.

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I'm not John, but VihtaVuori has decoppering agents and is supposed to be very temp stable. FWIW I have become very fond of N140.


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I'm not John, but VihtaVuori has decoppering agents and is supposed to be very temp stable. FWIW I have become very fond of N140.


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All Reloader series powders have a decoppering agent since 2002 except RL17.

From ATK

Both of these new Reloder powders contain decoppering agent to help reduce coppering up your barrels, but this is nothing new for us. Bofors began adding decoppering agent to our Reloder rifle powders in the 2002 timeframe, and all our Swiss Reloders except 17 contain their proprietary additive. (We may include it in 17 at some point also, but right now we like it just the way it is.) Sorry we didn’t have a snappy name figured for the decoppering agents, we just did it.



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Originally Posted by Swifty52
All Reloader series powders have a decoppering agent since 2002 except RL17.

From ATK

Both of these new Reloder powders contain decoppering agent to help reduce coppering up your barrels, but this is nothing new for us. Bofors began adding decoppering agent to our Reloder rifle powders in the 2002 timeframe, and all our Swiss Reloders except 17 contain their proprietary additive. (We may include it in 17 at some point also, but right now we like it just the way it is.) Sorry we didn’t have a snappy name figured for the decoppering agents, we just did it.


And I like RL-17 just the way it is also! Don't do anything to it as far as I'm concerned. It gives the best performance I've found for my 9.3 x 62, and I rarely ever need to clean the Sako match grade barrel.

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Some bore guides will allow crud to build up i the leade area. After a good cleaning using a bore guide, I remove it and push an alcohol soaked patch through to get and crud left.


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Rl 17 and 26 leave something black on cleaning patches, I do not believe it is carbon because it cleans out easily and fast

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I've become a fan of CFE223 and even use it for my 30-30 handloads.....works well. Higher velocity than standard powder loads! Using my hand cast gas checked bullets that drop at around 180 gr make for quite a stopper in a light trapper barrel length firearm!


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Originally Posted by BWalker
I havent noticed CFE 223 to burn dirty and I ran about 6 lbs of it shooting prarie dogs last year.

I shoot a lot of CFE223 and it does not burn dirty in my experience



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I have found that some decoppering agents must work better than others.

I was working up loads for a new barrel on my benchrest gun in 6ppc, the two powders I was using were VVN133 and IMR8208XBR. I would shoot 20-25 shots then clean before switching to the other powder. Every time I had copper fouling with VVN133 and not even a trace of copper with IMR8208XBR and it also burned much cleaner........as luck would have it my rifle shot tighter groups with VVN133 as most do

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