Last year it was the assault rifles which were evil. This year it's handguns. Restrictions on sales and transfers, which have been in place for decades, have had no beneficial effect but to someone with a shallow intellect, like Justin Castreau, even if it doesn't make sense, he can sell it. He can sell it because a large percentage of the population is just as simple minded as he. The refusal of governments to address gang proliferation, to address drug distribution and abuse, and to address their own inability to keep an economy going, these are the root causes of crime and violence in this country as it is in the US. The people who commit crimes with handguns have not purchased them through the usual channels, but this is conveniently ignored by advocates for the disarming of legal owners. GD
drover; Good evening to you sir, I hope the day and for that matter the entire week was a good one for you and you're well.
We've known this was coming since late May, so from that time those of us who were able to have been moving as many of them both off the dealer's shelves and in some cases into the hands of folks who might be inheriting them eventually anyways.
This is, as greydog said, going on at the same time that a forced confiscation of long arms is being rolled out. There's more than 1500 variants in the confiscation category so honestly it appears no one, not the government, not the LEO who might have to enforce it and not in many cases the present owners know if they are in contravention of the law.
To suggest it's anything more than virtue signaling to it's uninformed urban base would indicate the person suggesting it hasn't done their homework.
Something north of 85% of firearms used in Canadian crime are unlawfully obtained. That's the number the LEO will admit to, but it might be as high as 95%.
Again anyone thinking - however remotely - that this will lessen crime of any sort here hasn't been paying attention.
Just like when the current PM Socks legalized pot, it merely stimulated the black market to install turbo chargers and auxiliary overdrive.....
If they - PM Shiny Pony and his Evil Minions - even remotely imagined they had a gun smuggling problem previous to this, well they'd better buckle up is my prediction.
Sorry for the negative tone to my post sir, but as this affects me personally in a number of ways, it's difficult to see much positive in any of it.
drover; Good evening to you sir, I hope the day and for that matter the entire week was a good one for you and you're well.
We've known this was coming since late May, so from that time those of us who were able to have been moving as many of them both off the dealer's shelves and in some cases into the hands of folks who might be inheriting them eventually anyways.
This is, as greydog said, going on at the same time that a forced confiscation of long arms is being rolled out. There's more than 1500 variants in the confiscation category so honestly it appears no one, not the government, not the LEO who might have to enforce it and not in many cases the present owners know if they are in contravention of the law.
To suggest it's anything more than virtue signaling to it's uninformed urban base would indicate the person suggesting it hasn't done their homework.
Something north of 85% of firearms used in Canadian crime are unlawfully obtained. That's the number the LEO will admit to, but it might be as high as 95%.
Again anyone thinking - however remotely - that this will lessen crime of any sort here hasn't been paying attention.
Just like when the current PM Socks legalized pot, it merely stimulated the black market to install turbo chargers and auxiliary overdrive.....
If they - PM Shiny Pony and his Evil Minions - even remotely imagined they had a gun smuggling problem previous to this, well they'd better buckle up is my prediction.
Sorry for the negative tone to my post sir, but as this affects me personally in a number of ways, it's difficult to see much positive in any of it.
Nonetheless, all the best and good hunting.
Dwayne
Hi Dwayne, I was hoping to see a picture of your elk yesterday, I know you will post one soon! :o)
My only comment is that I no longer recognize Canada from when I grew up. Tragic and really very sad actually.
KillerBee; Good evening to you my friend, I hope the day went well for you.
Thanks for the inquiry on our elk quest, but as the season was done yesterday that'll be more "next year" stuff which I suppose makes a large part of hunting fun. The planning is for me anyways.
We had a bit of a warmer than usual fall and when it's 30°C up on top where we're chasing stuff, one needs to be modifying how far one is going to be packing out the big stuff. While I can manage a deer in two trips usually, something bigger can be 5 or more trips and depending on the length of the trip, a bunch of the meat can surely be in jeopardy.
It's interesting for me to see places where other folks get to hunt moose and elk and be able to access them with anything other than on foot, which is how it's done here or at least how I do most of my hunting.
Anyways, we've seen some moose sign and one buddy saw a legal - has to be 2 point or spike bull - moose yesterday, so maybe we'll see one of them when season starts in a week and a bit.
On the restricted thing, I've had restricted firearms since I turned 18 and was legal to do that, so I've got a fair bit of skin in this particular game and am less than happy about how it's going for sure.
All the best and good hunting regardless of the government we're struggling with.
Right on time! Hold your breath...Nah, you only exist to whine and complain.
With all due respect Steve I find both Dwayne and 673 very pleasant, and friendly. I do not know you, but I find you to be sanctimonious so far. You may want to look up a video on that word and apply it to your responses, just being honest.
Good. Once you get to know them, you will find out they are whiners, bigots and western separatists. Frankly, I don't care what you think either. From the posts I've read from you thus far, you crave attention. You remind me of someone from the Yukon who used to post here. No one was interested in him either.
Don’t worry. You'll have plenty of attention in no time. The people who rarely post here, except to complain, should be along very shortly.
Steve; Good evening to you sir, I hope the week was overall well behaved despite today's announcement and you're all well.
For sure I'm more than a wee bit disenchanted with the current situation that Mr. Singh and PM Socks has placed me personally in and acrimonious might be where I arrive eventually for sure.
As mentioned previously, one of my major frustrations is that I know this will only encourage growth in the gun smuggling industry, which is booming locally for a few reasons. We're close to the border which is relatively rough and difficult terrain and there seems to be no shortage of the organized crime sort of element who do this type of work for their daily bread.
Anyways Steve, I've said my piece and then some on it, so I'm sure how I feel isn't a surprise to anyone who even remotely knows me.
Good. Once you get to know them, you will find out they are whiners, bigots and western separatists. Frankly, I don't care what you think either. From the posts I've read from you thus far, you crave attention. You remind me of someone from the Yukon who used to post here. No one was interested in him either.
Don;t worry. You'll have plenty of attention in no time. The people who rarely post here, except to complain, should be along very shortly.
WOW Steve, you have cleared that up really fast. Not only are you sanctimonious, but you are also a complete bore!
Steve; Forgive me but I'm not understanding what won't work exactly?
Just me being frustrated?
Hopefully it goes without saying that I've spent considerable time, energy and funding to move the political dial in a different direction.
Unless something happens between Prince Socks and Mr. Singh, we're going to be in this situation for a wee bit yet, but I will note that there are some cracks showing with the western provinces taking the lead - with the notable exception of BC for sure which I'm not proud of but am working on changing as well.
Regarding me being a bigot, I'm not sure I've earned that label, but if I've done so, I do apologize.
As far as being a western separatist, indeed I have been in the past and without some honest good faith movement from the east will be inclined towards that in the future.
If you see me as whiner, then too I'll apologize for that since that wasn't my intent.
All the best to you Steve, regardless of our differences.
When I got my first apartment when I was 17, we used to smoke a lot of pot and hash and put on "The Benny Hill Show" followed by the PTL Club with Jim Baker and Tammy Faye Baker. I swear to God I never laughed so hard in my entire Life!
The Cheech and Chong lifestyle it was back in them good ol' days lol
Anyways..... I don't think any of Trudeau's gun bans in any form are going to fly, I just don't.
I realize our Country is full of stupid People, but I have been talking to some of them and I think even the stupid ones can see it is about a Marxist agenda, not about keeping "Canadians safe".
If it were about keeping Canadians safe then they would halt all immigration immediately, because I just had a look at Canada's 25 most wanted and at least 80% or more are People who just got off the boat and should be deported post haste.
673, Can you answer these questions please? I got bluster, but an seriously interested as to what your laws are. And will add, "are they more province based, or country wide".
Originally Posted by Dillonbuck
Just one question before I give you my answer, if that is ok?
Is the person doing the stabbing an intruder that broke into your home?
Do you have a legal right to self defense? Personal or home? Stand your ground or try to retreat? Home or not?[/quote]
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
673, Can you answer these questions please? I got bluster, but an seriously interested as to what your laws are. And will add, "are they more province based, or country wide".
Originally Posted by Dillonbuck
Just one question before I give you my answer, if that is ok?
Is the person doing the stabbing an intruder that broke into your home?
Do you have a legal right to self defense? Personal or home? Stand your ground or try to retreat? Home or not?
[/quote]
I would also like to know. Not an expert on Canadian law, but the laws are Federal.
I think that the "self defense" right is one of a moving goalposts, for example...Trudeau just told us that we don't have a right to self defense, yet, a fellow in Saskatchewan recently had enough of People terrorizing him and his family, he went out with his handgun, it evidently went off by "accident" shooting the shyte rat in the head, the fellow walked.
I really think it is an area that really hasn't been explored yet because......in Canada, laws/rights are largely defined by the Court. Which is why they find or not find bodies with holes in the back of their heads discarded in rural area's.
It is disturbing to see the way our Court could be influenced by a Trudeau appointed Judge.
Do you have a legal right to self defense? Personal or home? Stand your ground or try to retreat? Home or not?
Asking 673 for legal advice is like asking a 6 year old, as you can see by his answer. Best to research on your own. Google "right to self defence Canada legal" ---
Canada’s self-defence laws s - 34(1) of the Criminal Code state:
a) you must have been unlawfully assaulted; b) you must not have provoked the unlawful assault; c) the force used was not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm; and d) the force used was no more than necessary to enable you to defend yourself.
I am not a psychiatrist either, but I think you have an issue of control Steve, it is called OCD, and I think you have it. I could care less if you sucked on your pistola, but get some care.
If someone breaks into your home, unannounced, let's say a bugler or rapist. There is no way on earth anyone will go to prison for protecting themselves.
It is naive to think that the law is clear and straight-forward. In Canada, interpretation and established case-law are nuanced, which is why we need highly trained judges to make decisions in each case. Combine that with the fact that self-defence laws have been the rope in a tug-of-war between alternating governing parties over the past 20+ years, and it’s not surprising that the average Canadian lacks clarity in understanding the law and how it applies to them.
Regardless, when this topic would come up in conversation, I remember Grandpa used to say that it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
It is naive to think that the law is clear and straight-forward. In Canada, interpretation and established case law are nuanced, which is why we need highly trained judges to make decisions in each case. Combine that with the fact that self-defence laws have been the rope in a tug-of-war between alternating governing parties over the past 20+ years, and it’s not surprising that the average Canadian lacks clarity in understanding the law and how it applies to them.
Regardless, when this topic would come up in conversation, I remember Grandpa used to say that it is better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
Exactly Jordan, its about case law, and I don't think it has been fully explored yet.
The only issues that will be discussed in court will be:
"Were you actions Justifiable" and "Did you defend yourself in an Appropriate Manner"
I know this to be a fact from personal experience.
One would think so, but the goalposts move. The race of the individual charged is going to have a massive role to play, we don't just have one rule of law, and that is a problem.
The only issues that will be discussed in court will be:
"Were you actions Justifiable" and "Did you defend yourself in an Appropriate Manner"
I know this to be a fact from personal experience.
One would think so, but the goalposts move. The race of the individual charged is going to have a massive role to play, we don't just have one rule of law, and that is a problem.
Here is my rule of law, put your hands on me or break into my house with me in it and you are going to the hospital or worse. lol
Here is my rule of law, put your hands on me or break into my house with me in it and you are going to the hospital or worse. lol[/quote] Totally agree^^^^^
Here is a poll from the Toronto sun LOL, scroll down abit for the poll. 97% of Canadians think the handgun ban does nothing.
The law may be the same federally but I have a strong suspicion that self-defence in Alberta is different than self-defence in Ontario—just look what happened to Ian Thomson.
The law may be the same federally but I have a strong suspicion that self-defence in Alberta is different than self-defence in Ontario—just look what happened to Ian Thomson.
You should check with a lawyer if you wish to understand what is written in the law, 673. Or you can just do what you always do and argue from a position of ignorance. lol
Ask a lawyer what this means. They argue their cases based on what is written here and judges use the Criminal Code to render their decisions. lol
Defence of Person
Marginal note: Defence — use or threat of force
34 (1) A person is not guilty of an offence if
(a) they believe on reasonable grounds that force is being used against them or another person or that a threat of force is being made against them or another person;
(b) the act that constitutes the offence is committed for the purpose of defending or protecting themselves or the other person from that use or threat of force; and
(c) the act committed is reasonable in the circumstances.
Marginal note:Factors
(2) In determining whether the act committed is reasonable in the circumstances, the court shall consider the relevant circumstances of the person, the other parties and the act, including, but not limited to, the following factors:
(a) the nature of the force or threat;
(b) the extent to which the use of force was imminent and whether there were other means available to respond to the potential use of force;
(c) the person’s role in the incident;
(d) whether any party to the incident used or threatened to use a weapon;
(e) the size, age, gender and physical capabilities of the parties to the incident;
(f) the nature, duration and history of any relationship between the parties to the incident, including any prior use or threat of force and the nature of that force or threat;
(f.1) any history of interaction or communication between the parties to the incident;
(g) the nature and proportionality of the person’s response to the use or threat of force; and
(h) whether the act committed was in response to a use or threat of force that the person knew was lawful.
Marginal note:No defence
(3) Subsection (1) does not apply if the force is used or threatened by another person for the purpose of doing something that they are required or authorized by law to do in the administration or enforcement of the law, unless the person who commits the act that constitutes the offence believes on reasonable grounds that the other person is acting unlawfully.
R.S., 1985, c. C-46, s. 34 1992, c. 1, s. 60(F) 2012, c. 9, s. 2
The law may be the same federally but I have a strong suspicion that self-defence in Alberta is different than self-defence in Ontario—just look what happened to Ian Thomson.
673, Can you answer these questions please? I got bluster, but an seriously interested as to what your laws are. And will add, "are they more province based, or country wide".
Originally Posted by Dillonbuck
Just one question before I give you my answer, if that is ok?
Is the person doing the stabbing an intruder that broke into your home?
Do you have a legal right to self defense? Personal or home? Stand your ground or try to retreat? Home or not?
I would also like to know. Not an expert on Canadian law, but the laws are Federal.
I think that the "self defense" right is one of a moving goalposts, for example...Trudeau just told us that we don't have a right to self defense, yet, a fellow in Saskatchewan recently had enough of People terrorizing him and his family, he went out with his handgun, it evidently went off by "accident" shooting the shyte rat in the head, the fellow walked.
I really think it is an area that really hasn't been explored yet because......in Canada, laws/rights are largely defined by the Court. Which is why they find or not find bodies with holes in the back of their heads discarded in rural area's.
It is disturbing to see the way our Court could be influenced by a Trudeau appointed Judge.[/quote]
Actually, it was a handgun he had. And a strange case, indeed. The FN folks showed up and tried to steal his truck. There were a few of them.
In any case, if you do exercise your right to self-defence, expect to have to fight in court for it.
673, Can you answer these questions please? I got bluster, but an seriously interested as to what your laws are. And will add, "are they more province based, or country wide".
Originally Posted by Dillonbuck
Just one question before I give you my answer, if that is ok?
Is the person doing the stabbing an intruder that broke into your home?
Do you have a legal right to self defense? Personal or home? Stand your ground or try to retreat? Home or not?
I would also like to know. Not an expert on Canadian law, but the laws are Federal.
I think that the "self defense" right is one of a moving goalposts, for example...Trudeau just told us that we don't have a right to self defense, yet, a fellow in Saskatchewan recently had enough of People terrorizing him and his family, he went out with his handgun, it evidently went off by "accident" shooting the shyte rat in the head, the fellow walked.
I really think it is an area that really hasn't been explored yet because......in Canada, laws/rights are largely defined by the Court. Which is why they find or not find bodies with holes in the back of their heads discarded in rural area's.
It is disturbing to see the way our Court could be influenced by a Trudeau appointed Judge.
Actually, it was a handgun he had. And a strange case, indeed. The FN folks showed up and tried to steal his truck. There were a few of them.
In any case, if you do exercise your right to self-defence, expect to have to fight in court for it.[/quote] I can't remember the fellows name in northern alberta... that had a dispute with the oil&gas people, he was terrorized by people and he shot one of them dead on his property as they were driving erratically on his property, while his kids were sleeping in a tent, he also walked.
Good. Once you get to know them, you will find out they are whiners, bigots and western separatists. Frankly, I don't care what you think either. From the posts I've read from you thus far, you crave attention. You remind me of someone from the Yukon who used to post here. No one was interested in him either.
Don’t worry. You'll have plenty of attention in no time. The people who rarely post here, except to complain, should be along very shortly.
Steve, You seem to have a need to monitor and try to control conversations on the “Canada” forum as if you have some kind of ownership role. Your history of posting on here is consistent in that you start lots of threads on things you are interested in, but try to derail conversation’s you don’t like. I find you to be the most abrasive, condescending and annoying poster on this forum and I actually stopped opening any threads you start for that reason. It’s easy to not join in on conversations you don’t like.
Not try to one up, heck it's one down. That article is about gun violence in TO.
At half the population Chitcago says "hold my beer".
Heck our safer cities are worse. I'm sure not bragging.
As too self defense rights? Without further stirring the pot, it appears you don't have any at all. More of a case by case thing? Every case needing tried? Or at least reviewed.
We passed stand your ground laws years ago. Something I strongly supported. I have since seen a few local cases that made me scratch my head.
Drunk guy in a lover's triangle, not armed, shot with a crossbow on the porch by The Other Man.
Drunk neighbor pounding on window, shot through the window.
Immediately excused by the prosecutor.
Hmmm. Maybe.? Maybe we should learn more?
Last edited by Dillonbuck; 10/22/22.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
You are correct in your comment: "Without further stirring the pot, it appears you don't have any at all. More of a case by case thing?"
From my personal experience it is most definitely a "Case by Case" situation in Canada.
I would not want to shoot someone in this country through a window for banging on your window drunk or a crossbow killing on a porch in a jealous rage. In cases like those you are definitely doing Prison time!
Someone breaking into your home, and you taking matters into your own hands, is an entirely different matter!
Good. Once you get to know them, you will find out they are whiners, bigots and western separatists. Frankly, I don't care what you think either. From the posts I've read from you thus far, you crave attention. You remind me of someone from the Yukon who used to post here. No one was interested in him either.
Don’t worry. You'll have plenty of attention in no time. The people who rarely post here, except to complain, should be along very shortly.
Steve, You seem to have a need to monitor and try to control conversations on the “Canada” forum as if you have some kind of ownership role. Your history of posting on here is consistent in that you start lots of threads on things you are interested in, but try to derail conversation’s you don’t like. I find you to be the most abrasive, condescending and annoying poster on this forum and I actually stopped opening any threads you start for that reason. It’s easy to not join in on conversations you don’t like.
x2
Originally Posted by Llama_Bob
I've seen more well-shot game lost with TSXs than any other premium bullet.
Dwayne, your liberals are just like ours, they use crime as the excuse to impose draconian gun laws...when in reality any idiot can see its a thinly veiled attempt to disarm the populace. Its not about guns, its about control.I don't know about you Canucks but down here we are bracing to not comply should anything new come down the ;legislative pike.
"...the left considers you vermin, and they'll kill you given the chance..." Bristoe
Though I will say Ludwig is a half-bubble off plumb. I think he got lucky.
I was referencing Gordon Stanley earlier, he is the guy that accidently shot the kid with the handgun, Ludwig was different alright, but still... triggers were pulled...LOL
The reason so few people respond to you is because you are a putz. The only way you feel you can generate a conversation is by complaining. Frankly, it’s tiresome.
It’s useless to suggest that you post something fun, outdoorsy or enjoyable, but myself and others live in hope.
Go fishing or hunting or camping, if you own anything related to those pursuits. Take a few pictures of the water, the leaves changing colour or something pleasant. Try to be upbeat. Be positive. You will find your life will change for the good. Little changes can reap big dividends.
I’ll pretend you are new to the board and offer the same advice that was given to 673 - get outdoors and enjoy yourself. Don’t morph into the grumpy Gus that 673 and a few others have become.
The reason so few people respond to you is because you are a putz. The only way you feel you can generate a conversation is by complaining. Frankly, it’s tiresome.
It’s useless to suggest that you post something fun, outdoorsy or enjoyable, but myself and others live in hope.
Go fishing or hunting or camping, if you own anything related to those pursuits. Take a few pictures of the water, leaves changing colour or something pleasant. Try to be upbeat. Be positive. You will find your life will change for the good. Little changes can reap big dividends.
And there it is. The rules by which it’s acceptable to post in Steve’s Canada forum lol.
I will offer you the same advice too. Try being upbeat. Try being positive. Unfortunately, you don’t like hearing that either. Life is better when you mix in some fun.
Those aren’t my rules. Those are tips to living a better life.
I’ll pretend you are new to the board and offer the same advice that was given to 673 - get outdoors and enjoy yourself. Don’t morph into the grumpy Gus that 673 and a few others have become.
With all due respect Steve, my name is Darren, again you have no idea what you are talking about, and that sir does not surprise me in the least.
Ian Thomson shot a tree in his yard to run off his cocaine dealing neighbours who had tossed a fire bomb on his porch and thru his kitchen window—he almost did some serious time over it.
I will offer you the same advice too. Try being upbeat. Try being positive. Unfortunately, you don’t like hearing that either. Life is better when you mix in some fun.
Those aren’t my rules. Those are tips to living a better life.
Your advice is not needed here Steve, thanks anyway.
But you should keep adding emoji’s to the end of your condescending posts to keep things “upbeat” and “positive”.
Good. Once you get to know them, you will find out they are whiners, bigots and western separatists. Frankly, I don't care what you think either. From the posts I've read from you thus far, you crave attention. You remind me of someone from the Yukon who used to post here. No one was interested in him either.
Don’t worry. You'll have plenty of attention in no time. The people who rarely post here, except to complain, should be along very shortly.
Steve, You seem to have a need to monitor and try to control conversations on the “Canada” forum as if you have some kind of ownership role. Your history of posting on here is consistent in that you start lots of threads on things you are interested in, but try to derail conversation’s you don’t like. I find you to be the most abrasive, condescending and annoying poster on this forum and I actually stopped opening any threads you start for that reason. It’s easy to not join in on conversations you don’t like.
That is Steve in a nutshell. Ignore seems the best solution in the circumstance
Lol.. I find the boys from western Canada to be alright fellas.. But from what we all seen you are a Covid believer, believe travel restrictions should still be enforced keep us dreaded rebels from the kings rebel colony out of Canada.. Only person that should be able to own a a pistol is you and a few others. Sad when you think you are better than the boys out west.
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Steve; Forgive me but I'm not understanding what won't work exactly?
Just me being frustrated?
Hopefully it goes without saying that I've spent considerable time, energy and funding to move the political dial in a different direction.
Unless something happens between Prince Socks and Mr. Singh, we're going to be in this situation for a wee bit yet, but I will note that there are some cracks showing with the western provinces taking the lead - with the notable exception of BC for sure which I'm not proud of but am working on changing as well.
Regarding me being a bigot, I'm not sure I've earned that label, but if I've done so, I do apologize.
As far as being a western separatist, indeed I have been in the past and without some honest good faith movement from the east will be inclined towards that in the future.
If you see me as whiner, then too I'll apologize for that since that wasn't my intent.
All the best to you Steve, regardless of our differences.
Dwayne
He’s saying you being cordial to him is not going to change his mind about you all out west. He sees you guys as separatist hayseeds, only people in Ontario know what’s best for the rest of Canada.
Dwayne don’t apologize to him..
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
Lorne, 79S, I told BuzzyBee that you'd be here. I'm glad my predictions came true!
Lorne is a crab. Not sure about you, 79S. Regardless, introduce yourself to the new folks and you can swap a few stories. lol Enjoy.
P.S. Here's a picture of a cannabis bud. I figure some here might be familiar with it. Others in Canada and elsewhere should consider partaking of it to benefit from the smiles it generates.
Lorne, 79S, I told BuzzyBee that you'd be here. I'm glad my predictions came true!
Lorne is a crab. Not sure about you, 79S. Regardless, introduce yourself to the new folks and you can swap a few stories. lol Enjoy.
P.S. Here's a picture of a cannabis bud. I figure some here might be familiar with it. Others in Canada and elsewhere should consider partaking of it to benefit from the smiles it generates.
Lorne, 79S, I told BuzzyBee that you'd be here. I'm glad my predictions came true!
Lorne is a crab. Not sure about you, 79S. Regardless, introduce yourself to the new folks and you can swap a few stories. lol Enjoy.
P.S. Here's a picture of a cannabis bud. I figure some here might be familiar with it. Others in Canada and elsewhere should consider partaking of it to benefit from the smiles it generates.
Don’t know. I guess they didn’t like me posting the Criminal Code. That explains what the legal community uses to determine what force is justifiable for self defence.
I guess my suggestion that they talk with a lawyer wasn’t well received either.
Some folks don’t let facts get in the way of a good argument.
Just want to add that although I am a new member here, I have had several communications with Dwayne and have read some of his posts, you will never meet a nicer man, a dam fine hunter as well a rifle enthusiast.
I have also had some interactions with 673, really nice guy as well!
As for Steve, first time I have heard from him is on this thread, he reminds me of this guy lol
Castle doctrine does still apply in Canada, I believe. I know of two people who defended themselves by shooting their potential attackers and both were, ultimately, found to be innocent. Once case was in Calgary where a smallish guy used a shotgun on a great, big, SOB who was advancing on him. It was ruled that he acted appropriately because he had good reason to fear for his life. Another was a friend who used a Colt single action on a man who had been terrorizing his family for months. The guy had even beaten then family dog to death, with a shovel, in the front yard, in front of the wife and kids. The shooter lost in court when the original judge ruled that all evidence of previous interaction was inadmissible. After spending a year in prison, he was granted a new trial where all evidence was weighed, and the conviction was set aside. So, just like in the US, the right to self defense exists but the courts are often involved in affirming this. GD
greydog; Top of the morning to you my friend, I hope you've got the fire lit and coffee on out east.
We're just above freezing for the first time this morning and while it spit a wee bit yesterday we're still hoping for some rain. There was a bit of a fire still going west of Peachland that we saw coming back from Kelowna yesterday too, so still wildfire season out here.
On the subject of defending oneself with a firearm here in BC, I know of 3 instances where individuals did so and as far as I'm aware were not incarcerated as a result.
That said greydog, as I recall all 3 were charged with a couple of offenses and had to undergo the court proceedings and lawyers fees.
In all three cases I'm speaking of there was a history of violence between parties and that appears to have added weight to the defense's contention they were in fear of their lives.
Two of the cases involved shotguns and one an unregistered handgun.
For those interested in wound results, one shotgun round of what was described to me only as "birdshot" hit the femoral artery of the attacker and that as they say, was that. The local fire department found him right there.
In the second incident, the fellow took a rifled slug in the chest, which spun him around on the porch entrance, after which a second round of buckshot hit him in the shoulder and back. Interestingly the paramedic who attended and found him waiting quietly on the lawn at the base of the stairs, told me that the slug didn't exit.
I'd opine there's a lesson right there for people who choose to run a shotgun for bear defense. Choose the slug type carefully.
The handgun was a .22 revolver and if memory serves was an 8 shot, all of which hit the attacker as he was coming into the building. He like the fellow above, was waiting on the lawn quietly when paramedics and LEO arrived. I worked with the deceased criminal's brother for years and still know the brother well enough to say hello. He is the absolute salt of the earth, but apparently his brother was a nogoodnik from day one and died as a result of his choices.
Again going off of a foggy memory as the incidents are at least 20 years back now, even then all were charged.
Having talked a wee bit with the Crown Prosecutor back in the '90's, there appears to be considerable latitude given to the CP as to whether or not charges will be laid.
Then too, having some experience with local judges and arbitrators - in one case it was a judge who I was familiar with - they have some latitude as to how they'll interpret and choose to apply the law.
As usual, it appears my answer has brought more questions than actual answers, but I would strongly suggest that in the event a Canadian needs to use lethal force at the present time, a very good lawyer should be immediately retained - as in before any statements to any LEO.
All the best to you all greydog and good hunting. Let's hope the cold kicks some stuff into moving during the day.
Dwayne
Last edited by BC30cal; 10/23/22. Reason: more information
I'd opine there's a lesson right there for people who choose to run a shotgun for bear defense. Choose the slug type carefully.
Dwayne
Hi Dwayne I hope your Sunday is going great, surprised you are not out there hunting! lol
Just wanted to say that when it comes to Bear defense: Whenever I am bow hunting in Bear country, I carry the shotgun below (in the picture with the two large bear skulls) on my back with an 18" barrel. IMO the best round to stop them critters in their tracks is 00 Buckshot. I used to load up my Mossy 88 with Slugs, but this video changed my mind and I load my shotgun with 3" Magnum 00 Buckshot now.
Dwayne, your liberals are just like ours, they use crime as the excuse to impose draconian gun laws...when in reality any idiot can see its a thinly veiled attempt to disarm the populace. Its not about guns, its about control.I don't know about you Canucks but down here we are bracing to not comply should anything new come down the ;legislative pike.
ingwe; Good morning my old friend, I hope that the day is bright and clear down on your side of the medicine line and you're all well.
We in the western part of Canada have been in a struggle with the central Federal government for years, my entire life really ingwe, over that control issue. Whether it was marketing boards which prevented us from selling what we grew or other issues which we believed should be provincial/regional and they felt they knew best it's been over control.
As an example, the Canadian Wheat Board controlled how much grain a farmer was able to take to market. Imagine if you can that you're a Saskatchewan farmer and have had a good year, so your granaries are full. You're now in a position to pay down the operating loan to the bank, some Farm Credit loans on that section you bought off of the neighbor last fall and maybe look at replacing the aging tractor. You're in good shape, no?
Well no, because for "reasons" the CWB has decided not to open quota on what your bins have in them, so lucky you, you're now in default position for all your loans. Cool, no?
Oh, you can sell "off board" in some instances but only for animal feed.
People were charged and fined for attempting to haul grain south of the medicine line so they could sell it and keep afloat.
Cool again, no?
I could go on, but that's how myself and many people I knew then got involved with the Western Canada Concept and the Reform Party. The relationship was not working for us.
When we'd attempt to explain it to folks from central Canada, they either didn't believe us or weren't interested. Not interested enough to help make a change. I'll note here that we did meet folks from rural Quebec who were in the same place as we were and then too the folks from Atlantic Canada were typically wonderful too, so in that light I'd rather see us find a solution and keep the nation complete.
When Prince Sock's father or at least parent - Pierre Elliot Trudeau - told us to "sell our own damn wheat" but didn't dismantle the CWB or actually allow us to and when he gave folks up in Salmon Arm the finger out of the train window, it confirmed our opinions.
I'll add that Salmon Arm area is the stomping grounds near my friend 673 and he knows the back country around there as well as anyone I'd opine.
Anyways ingwe, indeed this is not about firearms in my view, it absolutely is about control.
There appears to be a groundswell of blow back happening among the western provinces now over some of this, though I'll add that the leftist provincial government here in BC is conspicuously silent to our shame AND that New Brunswick has joined in which is fantastic news.
Again I'll reiterate the above are just the musings and experiences which I have had and where I come from. Others will be different and that's as it should be.
KillerBee; Good morning to you my cyber friend, I hope you're not getting the blizzard that Calgary is or at least if you are you can stay off the roads.
At this current moment I'm able to work around a few other people's schedules, so my usual weekend hunting partner - our eldest daughter - took today off hunting and so did I. As it happens too, it's our 40th anniversary today so we're just having a coffee while the woodstove warms up the place.
On the subject of bear arms and for sure and certain it's always a hotly debated topic, I've gone down many, many rabbit holes trying to come up with a plan as well.
Personally then Darren, for myself, I've settled on either the top or center pump for camping, meat packing and recalcitrant yard bruin hazing.
They've all been worked over in the shop, having the follower spring replaced and a Hi-Viz Delrin No Jam follower installed.
Every "serious shotgun" that goes through my shop gets this modification, that's how much I believe in that Darren.
After talking to folks from Churchill, MB who haze polar bears and the occasional grizzly for a living, as well as one memorable conversation with a BC Ministry biologist, I've abandoned buckshot for slugs.
The only slugs I carry however for serious work are either the Challenger Slugs from Canadian Tire or if you can find them RWS Brenneke slugs, which are proverbial hen's teeth up here.
Link to the Can Tire Challengers, which are loaded in Quebec and use the very good and very hard Italian Gualandi slug
My reasoning for those two slug choices Darren is they offer the most potential penetration of slugs which we can get up here.
There is a Latvian loaded slug - D Dupleks Monolit 32 - which I would test in a heartbeat as well, but they don't come up across the medicine line so that's that as they say.
Again as with all things Darren, there are many roads leading to Mecca and I'm not attempting to persuade anyone to take the same road as I have, merely to attempt to articulate how it is I got to where I'm at on the road - today.
This is interesting ideas about bear loads. For my shotgun I’ve got 00 buckshot for the simple reason of hoping to have a better chance of hitting what I’m aiming at. If a bear is charging in or circling, I’ve thought it may be tough to hit with a single projectile. So I guess not as much thought about penetration but more about hitting the bear.
It had to be about 60yds that I hit one with this spring and they fly amazingly straight. From the response from the bear, I'd say it was near the end of it's useful energy, but it still got my point across for that day.
We're just overrun with black bears this fall in the south valley here and part of the problem is truly hunters like me who don't shoot them often enough. I'm not a huge fan of eating them, have one rugged up and on the wall so don't need more. All that said, I really should get off the pot and shoot more as they're hard on mule deer fawns according to early data from a study they're finally doing down here.
The MoE biologist conversation was enlightening for me. He was intentionally vague about how many "negative interactions" he'd had, but it was enough that he'd switched from an MoE issue pump gun to a Mod 70 Featherweight of his own, that he'd had either open or aperture sights put on - can't recall sorry - and his preferred load was 200gr Partitions in an '06.
I'm sure you've run into folks who've been there and done that as it were and it's never not educational if one of them wants to tell stories.
There was a chap on gunnutz called "Boomer" who was the chap from Churchill, MB I mentioned. When I got into modifying pump guns years back - I toyed with the idea of going into it as a side hustle, but since we're in Canada and all that have just done some for friends. Anyways Boomer was very open about what had gone wrong both with the tools of his trade and what he put into them.
They're usually using Lightfield less than lethal first unless life has really gone sideways.
Again though for sure, I've always said that one should use what one is comfortable with. My intentions are never to remotely suggest that I alone have the answer or am on the one true path - with anything including my beliefs about a deity, you know?
Just trying to explain how it is I got to where I might understand myself to be today.
Bull chit… you added absolutely nothing to the conversation initially.. Just yo remind you I quoted your very first post.. Go re watch the queens funeral.. also go get your Covid booster too..
Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
Don’t know. I guess they didn’t like me posting the Criminal Code. That explains what the legal community uses to determine what force is justifiable for self defence.
I guess my suggestion that they talk with a lawyer wasn’t well received either.
Some folks don’t let facts get in the way of a good argument.
Originally Posted by Steve Redgwell
You have the right to do as you are told.
673 is happy about this. He only posts to complain and whine, so this made him smile.
Last edited by 79S; 10/23/22.
Originally Posted by Bricktop
Then STFU. The rest of your statement is superflous bullshit with no real bearing on this discussion other than to massage your own ego.
I concur, the debate continues, one thing for sure I do not carry Bear Spray, I use that to season my steaks when I BBQ them lol.
I see that you too modified the top shotgun with a different stock, I did because the original did not fit me, to my specifications. When my cheek is on the stock, I want to be looking right down the barrel with perfect alignment to the bead.
I have killed two bears to date with a shotgun both at close quarters, both with slugs. The bear skull on the left in my picture, Skull size 19 3/4" was and rather large bear and was shot at 13 yards with 3" Magnum Federal Express Hi Shok slugs. The picture below is the bear I am speaking above, sorry for the poor picture quality, took it from a picture.
Both were pass throughs. The first through both lungs, the second through the liver. When I opened him up, his lungs were what I call "Gelified" his liver was unrecognizable. Believe it or not he ran into the bush for about 60 yards after being shot twice, I could not believe my eyes! I said to myself "How did I miss????"
There is a best of both worlds that I use, depending on where I am bowhunting. 1. I load 5 into my shotgun, the first 2 shots are 3" Magnum Federal Express Hi Shok Slugs, the following three are 3" Magnum 00Buckshot. 2. all 5 rounds are all 00 Buckshot.
I hunted bears for years, but I actually fell in love with them and do not hunt them anymore. The only time I will shoot another is if I am in peril of being attacked or being attacked.
Thank you for the Tip on the Hi-Viz Delrin No Jam follower, I will be ordering one today!
Have a wonderful Sunday on this your 40th anniversary, well done! A family that hunts together stays together :o)
Hi Dwayne, All great info, thanks. I’ve never been charged by a bear or had to shoot at one, but I’m one of the guilty hunters as well for not doing my part. Every spring I buy two black bear tags with the intention of taking a couple bears out of the fawn/calf eating business, and to this day at 53 yrs old have never killed even one bear. I just don’t have any interest in them for some reason. I was pretty determined this spring and actually went out on foot a couple times, but didn’t find any on those days lol.
Dwayne, Gary Alt headed up our black bear program for many years as a biologist. He was instrumental in bringing them back state wide.
Then, they put him in charge of the whitetail deer program. After concluding a big Fawn Mortality study, he made the comment that he, after decades of studying bears, was shocked at how many fawns end up eaten by bears.
Parents who say they have good kids..Usually don't!
Glad to be useful sometimes on any subject. If you've never had the magazine tube off of your shotgun yet, they're typically held in with a chemical thread locker so a wee bit of heat - I use a heat gun - will typically fix that right up and they screw out in the usual "lefty loosey" way.
If you or anyone is ordering the spring and follower kit from S&J, the spring will need to be trimmed or you'll lose some capacity. They send them long on purpose, so just trim with a Dremel and metal cutting wheel a few coils at a time or start with a couple inches longer than the original and work from there.
My goodness though I hear you on black bears not understanding they're dead when hit solidly.
Over the years I've been called in on more black bear "finding" expeditions than anything else. The fact that they have that big fat layer that seems to move and plug up the bleeding holes doesn't help one bit. Then too they don't have hooves so don't kick up dirt the same way as ungulates do.
Thanks again for the reply and for sure for sharing what works for you, I appreciate it.
Dillonbuck; Good morning or possibly afternoon to you sir, thanks for the reply.
The name Gary Alt is one I'm familiar with and I want to say I've read a few articles and interviews with him over the years.
When I was a youngster in north central Saskatchewan, the MoE did a bit of a study there and determined that black bears were responsible for at least 30% of the moose calf mortality.
Here in the the south Okanagan, we've got no shortage of coyotes, have both Golden and Bald Eagles, are known for our cougars both in size and abundance, relatively recently had wolves move in and as mentioned have no shortage of black bears.
We've been campaigning for a study of our mule deer population for nearly 20 years and were glad to see a serious one started 3 or maybe now it's 4 years back.
Many of us - well let's be honest here sir - me/I - was sure that wolves would come out as the leading cause of mulie doe and fawn mortality. Yet again I was wrong, wrong, wrong.
I want to say wolves killed one or two and cats another couple, but it was the black bears that did in the majority where they were able to pin down a particular predator.
We've seen fairly small black bears chasing mule deer over the years, at times through our yard even. My guess is that like the coyotes/wolves can do, the black bears must get onto a particular animal and just run/walk it down even if it takes all day.
When we were sheep hunting this fall in fact we saw a black bear - at about 1200 yards - with it's head down like a bird dog headed across an opening. Sure enough it was following a mulie doe we'd spotted earlier that morning, because it followed exactly where she'd gone into cover. That morning she came bouncing out and went into a canyon and the last we saw, the bear followed behind, so who knows.
But yes sir, they're a much more efficient killer than many people begin to give them credit for - or at very least can be if so inclined.
Good post, bud, I have both Brenneke and Challenger slugs andsometimes carry my Benelli 14" tubed "entry gun" when out and about, I much prefer a rifle for bear protection work and good, heavy for caliber Npts. or similar bullets in my handholds. A .338WM or 9.3x62 suits me best, but, at 76+. I need more frequent practice.........
Good. Once you get to know them, you will find out they are whiners, bigots and western separatists. Frankly, I don't care what you think either. From the posts I've read from you thus far, you crave attention. You remind me of someone from the Yukon who used to post here. No one was interested in him either.
Don’t worry. You'll have plenty of attention in no time. The people who rarely post here, except to complain, should be along very shortly.
Steve, You seem to have a need to monitor and try to control conversations on the “Canada” forum as if you have some kind of ownership role. Your history of posting on here is consistent in that you start lots of threads on things you are interested in, but try to derail conversation’s you don’t like. I find you to be the most abrasive, condescending and annoying poster on this forum and I actually stopped opening any threads you start for that reason. It’s easy to not join in on conversations you don’t like.
The man obviously has serious problems, both physical and mental. Maybe we should pity him, and for sure anyone that lives in the same house with him.
Patriotism (and religion) is the last refuge of a scoundrel.
We've been campaigning for a study of our mule deer population for nearly 20 years and were glad to see a serious one started 3 or maybe now it's 4 years back.
I want to say wolves killed one or two and cats another couple, but it was the black bears that did in the majority where they were able to pin down a particular predator.
Dwayne
Dwayne, For a long time coyotes were blamed for muley declines here in Colorado. More recent research/evidence has pointed to black bears.
Colorado has gone from 1.1 million deer (mostly muleys) to 450k over the past 35 years. Elk population explosion is probably a factor also.
At this point Colorado is throwing bear tags at anybody who will buy one.
Here in west-central Colorado the bears were in the sweet corn so the state started issuing depredation permits. Two years ago between Montrose and Delta they killed 60-70 bears in the corn fields during the month of August. The hunters would wait at the end of field while the pickers were harvesting and let the bears run out the end of the corn rows!
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
mod7rem; Good morning to you sir, I hope you're getting decent weather up there and the weekend was a good one.
Regarding bears being good bears and buggering off when politely asked, up until this spring with the one that caught the Lightfield, all but one did for me too.
With that recalcitrant scamp, I was headed back down to the pickup from an unsuccessful conversation with a bull elk. Well it was successful for the elk one could argue I suppose?
The trail led down through a replanted cut block - the same one with the forked top tree that I put up in the photo thread actually - it was hot, as in September in the Okanagan hot, I was sweating and the wind was at my back blowing steady. Way off in the distance I see this stupid little bear coming towards me, maybe 200 yards out and here he comes on a collision course with me.
I'm thinking, "how odd that he doesn't smell me by now", but he keeps coming and at about 75 yards I've flipped my .308 Norma off my shoulder and closed the bolt on a round. By 50 yards I've quit talking to him and am yelling. This escalates to casting aspersions at his lineage and overall character as a bear by about 35 yards, where he stops and starts licking his lips and shifting back and forth on his front feet.
As a longtime horse guy, when a horse is licking it's lips, it's cogitating it's next move, which is as close as a horse might come to "thinking" in my experience.
I recognized this and informed the bear, very loudly might I add, that because I had the Norma, there were only 3 in the rifle and there would be no warning shots. Likely there were a lot of vulgar expletives added too, as I was getting perturbed with it's lack of common curtesy by then.
Finally after what seemed like minutes but honestly might not have been, it turned and shuffled away, stopping a few times to look back at me and me shouting encouragement to keep going.
Honestly I don't know what it was thinking other than it could take the little guy in the cowboy hat, you know?
Then that idiot this spring terrorized our neighborhood for nearly 6 weeks. He was hit 2 times by Lightfield slugs, 3 times with a pellet gun and then I bounced 2 tennis ball sized rocks off of it once too. The MoE had a trap in our yard for a few days, but it didn't come then.
It entered the wrong yard on the last day of spring bear season however, all rules were scrupulously adhered to accordingly and he now being fed as batches of stew to my ancient cat.....
But yah, most bears have been good bears and bugger off when asked.
We've seen what we believe are 11 different bears since season started in September this year, which is a bit higher than normal for sure too.
Back in the old day's when i was growing up in Western Colorado, you received a Bear Tag Free when you bought a Deer Or Elk Lic. there was no draw back then Elk and Deer Lic. combined $12.00 Rio7
alpinecrick; Top of the morning to you sir, it's been too long since we've chatted, but I hope you've been well in the interim.
Thanks for that bit of information, it's interesting to see the trends are similar here for mulies, but I'd judge them to be worse in terms of the lack of deer we're seeing.
When we moved here 38 years ago, it was not impossible to go look at 100 mule deer off the highway between here and the next valley over heading east - during the winter months that is Casey.
The girls and I would count the wintering herds between here and where they went to school which was 20 minutes up the valley and our best day was 125.
These days if we see a dozen it's a big number day.
While I'm admittedly no biologist, I think that the combination of logging the old growth, the access that logging has brought to the back country, increased year round recreation in those areas and less than optimum game management has given the mulies here the perfect storm.
Some blame First Nations overharvest and they are a factor, but for the most part the locals here don't cut their own meat, so it's not rocket science to ask the meat cutters for their records and so help me, it's not enough.
Yes it's a factor and so am I as a local hunter too.
I'm not sure what the solution is, but I really should start shooting more bears than I have been.
Dwayne, I have a very hard time believing that you used "a lot of vulgar expletives added too, as I was getting perturbed with it's lack of common curtesy by then." LOL
Up until the late 80's, they used to issue bear tags automatically with deer and moose (and elk, till the late 70's) tags here. I think they should go back to it. A lot of guys won't target bear and so, won't buy a tag, but would likely shoot a bear for the camp if their tag were already included.
alpinecrick; Top of the morning to you sir, it's been too long since we've chatted, but I hope you've been well in the interim.
Thanks for that bit of information, it's interesting to see the trends are similar here for mulies, but I'd judge them to be worse in terms of the lack of deer we're seeing.
When we moved here 38 years ago, it was not impossible to go look at 100 mule deer off the highway between here and the next valley over heading east - during the winter months that is Casey.
The girls and I would count the wintering herds between here and where they went to school which was 20 minutes up the valley and our best day was 125.
These days if we see a dozen it's a big number day.
While I'm admittedly no biologist, I think that the combination of logging the old growth, the access that logging has brought to the back country, increased year round recreation in those areas and less than optimum game management has given the mulies here the perfect storm.
Some blame First Nations overharvest and they are a factor, but for the most part the locals here don't cut their own meat, so it's not rocket science to ask the meat cutters for their records and so help me, it's not enough.
Yes it's a factor and so am I as a local hunter too.
I'm not sure what the solution is, but I really should start shooting more bears than I have been.
Thanks again and good hunting.
Dwayne
Pretty sure the magic bullet regarding Mule deer is fire management and the relationship fire has with Mule deer, that combined with sensible game management. Also, if everyone had a stake in Conservation, things would play out different than they do now, it is bizarre that some groups have no stake in Conservation whatsoever.
Wannabebwana; Good morning to you my cyber friend!
Full disclosure here sir, in a former life I had a cousin turn to me one day, who was no angel herself mind you, to say, "Do you ever hear yourself talk Dwayne, you're incredibly vulgar".
I took it to heart and do attempt to not overuse profanity, however as they say, "I used to speak the language fluently"..
With that young dumb one, I wasn't packing a bear tag back then because I had shot 3 local black bears, the first tasted fine, the second was off and I want to say buddy took the 3rd one home with him, so I'd had enough so to speak.
Since I had no tag, if there would have been gunfire, I'd have had paperwork to do with the CO's.
When I rolled back down the hill after that morning, I bought a black bear tag and have not gone afield without one since. I figure it's a $15 insurance policy every year since if I have it I won't need it, you know?
Should I run into another one that just won't listen to reason now, there'll be a brief session of noise followed by it taking a ride in the Dead Sled back to the pickup. The CO's won't have to be involved at all and life will be simple.
Thanks for the chuckle this morning sir, I appreciate it.
Far as I know.....only recently have vehicle restrictions been imposed on some fires, that is a good start. When the Mule deer pops go up 400% several years after a fire, that is great, then they are all shot, that is not so good, Moose too need the fire.
The goal of all user groups having a stake in Conservation should be he primary goal. There is no reason not too, it has FA to do with a Constitutional right.
I have the same kind of memories growing up in the Uncompahgre Valley.
It was guesstimated from the mid 50's to the late 70's the wintering population of mule deer in the Uncompahgre Valley represented the highest ungulate densities anywhere outside of Africa. More so, the proportion of mature bucks in that population were much higher back then compared to today. As a kid I took that for granted--I kick myself today for not taking more advantage of that situation.
By the mid 80's, according to B&C, 40% of all typical muley bucks entered in the B&C records came within a 75 mile radius of the valley. As an example in 1966 my dad and two hunting partners drew December buck tags on the Uncompahgre Plateau. Being in the middle of the rut, it was like a 1st degree murder season. By the second morning my dad and his buddies each killed a buck, each buck was shot about 400 yds from the other. Two of those bucks qualify for B&C, the third scored 180+.
Another example, when I became old enough to hunt big game in the early 70's (back then in Colorado that was 14 years old) a guy could buy an archery tag, potentially draw a early season rifle tag, buy a tag for the regular rifle season, be offered to buy a doe tag and they threw in another buck tag for free contingent upon killing a doe before using the second buck tag, and potentially draw a late season tag.
That was 6 deer a hunter could potentially kill in the fall.
Today deer are draw only and those same game units take anywhere from 1 to 10+ preference points to draw a buck tag. That's a LONG fall from the deer hunting environment I grew up in here in Colorado.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
Pretty sure the magic bullet regarding Mule deer is fire management and the relationship fire has with Mule deer, that combined with sensible game management. Also, if everyone had a stake in Conservation, things would play out different than they do now, it is bizarre that some groups have no stake in Conservation whatsoever.
673, I think the absence of fire is a big part of it here in the southern Rockies and have argued as much. Here in the southern Rockies it is the "shoulder season" habitat that is the most decadent and in need of fire. The pinions, junipers, sage, quakies, and oak brush constitute that spring and fall (and sometimes the rest of the year) habitat.
Prior to the Taylor Grazing Act being passed by Congress in 1934 livestock grazing on public lands was a free-for-all. When livestock numbers were significantly reduced (encouraged by the Dust Bowl years) there was am explosion of new growth and within a decade or so muley populations began a exponential growth that lasted through the 60's.
The Uncompahgre Plateau has a lot of uranium. From the 1940's into the 60's the feds and military flew phot transects looking for potential uranium deposits.
In the 90's the Colorado Division of Wildlife (now known as Colorado Park and Wildlife) re-flew some of those same photo transects on the sides of the plateau. Where once there were large openings of sage the PJ has grown in to reduce those openings to a fraction of their size 40-50 years before. The Gambels oak is now tall, decadent, and much thicker than it was previously.
Gambels oak is considered one of the most nutritious wildlife foods in North America. Not just the acorns but the leaders on the new growth is very important to muleys (which are primarily browsers).
In the 90's a good friend of mine, a wildlife biologist who retired early from CPW (he couldn't stand the politics) was the facilitator for a very ambitious habitat improvement project on that shoulder season habitat. It involved the USFS, BLM, NPS, state, county and city governments, and private NGO"s. Funding was becoming available and they were a year from getting started.
Then came the Los Alamos controlled burn.
The burn instantly got out of control and burned part of the town. That shut down the Uncompahgre project and has made controlled burns almost impossible in the west. In the intervening 30 years the infestation of Lifestyle Immigrants moving into the Rocky Mountains and building their yuppie version of the Ponderosa Ranch has made the chances of ever restoring habitat through controlled burns even less likely.
So now we just get to wait for out-of-control burns. That's fine by me except for the part where I have to listen to the Lifestyle Immigrants and their risky lifestyle choices whine and cry every time their trophy home burns down............
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively... Having said that, MAGA.
I would call the overall environmental "management" in BC simply appalling and with 70 years of actual bush experience here, including time working with the BCFS and F&W. plus the CCG, I speak from sad experience. The Campbell, Clark and Horgan administrations have been despicable in their actions in this respect.
So.......... on the handguns, handguns are bad and dangerous, yet, the drugs and those who peddle them don't show up on his or anyone's radar?
The number of dead People in my nearest large community is overwhelming...gun violence, is almost non existent, the ones doing gun violence are the drug People anyways LOL.
To think this isn't a "made for agenda" tool makes for a really dumbed down populace. I have no idea how they get away with it, the fugging NDP office near me hasn't seen a key in the door for almost a year now. #chickenshits.
Do you have a legal right to self defense? Personal or home? Stand your ground or try to retreat? Home or not?
Asking 673 for legal advice is like asking a 6 year old, as you can see by his answer. Best to research on your own. Google "right to self defence Canada legal" ---
Canada’s self-defence laws s - 34(1) of the Criminal Code state:
a) you must have been unlawfully assaulted; b) you must not have provoked the unlawful assault; c) the force used was not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm; and d) the force used was no more than necessary to enable you to defend yourself.
Do you have a legal right to self defense? Personal or home? Stand your ground or try to retreat? Home or not?
Asking 673 for legal advice is like asking a 6 year old, as you can see by his answer. Best to research on your own. Google "right to self defence Canada legal" ---
Canada’s self-defence laws s - 34(1) of the Criminal Code state:
a) you must have been unlawfully assaulted; b) you must not have provoked the unlawful assault; c) the force used was not intended to cause death or grievous bodily harm; and d) the force used was no more than necessary to enable you to defend yourself.
Wait for schitbird to stab or shoot you and you're then allowed to tickle them till they stop killing you.
Steve is clueless, self-defense is permitted, each case is reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Been there Done that not once, but twice!
I should add that firearms were not involved in my cases, bare hands, both plaintiffs when to the hospital. I walked both times. You better have witnesses though!
With a firearm in your home against the intruder, you would definitely be going to court, depending on the circumstances, you could walk as well.
I am just very happy that I do not own any handguns, or any restricted firearms!
The way things are going and from what I have seen in Alberta, compared to 20 years ago, almost everything is posted now and getting permission is time consuming, annoying and also quite expensive. I am very happy I am older, and my hunting years are winding down.
I Feel sorry for the kids that want to hunt these days.
Good. Once you get to know them, you will find out they are whiners, bigots and western separatists.
Wow!….. I knew you were a loser but I didn’t realize you were as pathetic as you truly are.
Congratulations on being the only person here in the history of the campfire to take issue with Dwayne. Easily the politest and most agreeable individual here and a man who would always be welcome in my camp or in my home and I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that most of the guys here feel the same way. Dwayne has everyone’s respect while you most certainly don’t!
If you’re representative of what’s produced in “the East” then I can’t fault anyone for disassociating themselves from you and your “eastern” mentality. You are a personification of the eastern personality and an excellent argument FOR western autonomy.
You’ve done much to show your true personality these past few years but if you have to attack Dwayne then you’ve obviously sunk to new lows.
�Politicians are the lowest form of life on earth. Liberal Democrats are the lowest form of politician.� �General George S. Patton, Jr.
Dang, what happens when someone get stabbed with a butter knife?
Just one question before I give you my answer, if that is ok?
Is the person doing the stabbing an intruder that broke into your home?
yeah, in the case of Justin TruDeau, grandson to Inspector Cluseau, He'll first make Butter Illegal, the a butter knife... So the typical non Liberal Canadian, with just say He doesn't use butter, he uses Margarine, and since there is no such a time as a Margarine Knife, that would be okay.....
With ALL the Buses in Canada, are you telling me that he just can't get hit by one of them???
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
Good. Once you get to know them, you will find out they are whiners, bigots and western separatists.
Wow!….. I knew you were a loser but I didn’t realize you were as pathetic as you truly are.
Congratulations on being the only person here in the history of the campfire to take issue with Dwayne. Easily the politest and most agreeable individual here and a man who would always be welcome in my camp or in my home and I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that most of the guys here feel the same way. Dwayne has everyone’s respect while you most certainly don’t!
If you’re representative of what’s produced in “the East” then I can’t fault anyone for disassociating themselves from you and your “eastern” mentality. You are a personification of the eastern personality and an excellent argument FOR western autonomy.
You’ve done much to show your true personality these past few years but if you have to attack Dwayne then you’ve obviously sunk to new lows.
Nice "Spot on" post!
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
Good. Once you get to know them, you will find out they are whiners, bigots and western separatists.
Wow!….. I knew you were a loser but I didn’t realize you were as pathetic as you truly are.
Congratulations on being the only person here in the history of the campfire to take issue with Dwayne. Easily the politest and most agreeable individual here and a man who would always be welcome in my camp or in my home and I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that most of the guys here feel the same way. Dwayne has everyone’s respect while you most certainly don’t!
If you’re representative of what’s produced in “the East” then I can’t fault anyone for disassociating themselves from you and your “eastern” mentality. You are a personification of the eastern personality and an excellent argument FOR western autonomy.
You’ve done much to show your true personality these past few years but if you have to attack Dwayne then you’ve obviously sunk to new lows.
Good. Once you get to know them, you will find out they are whiners, bigots and western separatists.
Wow!….. I knew you were a loser but I didn’t realize you were as pathetic as you truly are.
Congratulations on being the only person here in the history of the campfire to take issue with Dwayne. Easily the politest and most agreeable individual here and a man who would always be welcome in my camp or in my home and I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that most of the guys here feel the same way. Dwayne has everyone’s respect while you most certainly don’t!
If you’re representative of what’s produced in “the East” then I can’t fault anyone for disassociating themselves from you and your “eastern” mentality. You are a personification of the eastern personality and an excellent argument FOR western autonomy.
You’ve done much to show your true personality these past few years but if you have to attack Dwayne then you’ve obviously sunk to new lows.
Sadly, this is about right. Some of my best friends have been and are from the east, it took them awhile to realize that hunting/shooting is a lifestyle many of us lead, but....the last 3 people (customers) I have met were from Ontario, they were all recent arrivals to BC, they all were against hunting/guns, and wouldn't stfu, I simply fired them and don't waste anymore time with them.
A brief study into Canada's history will reveal a desire to separate west from east, or at least a form of Autonomy, near as I can figure that is what the proposed "Sovereignty act" in Alberta is all about. It is also what Native Canada wanted in Riel and friends, autonomy, not a dictatorship, sound familiar? Our Provincial leaders have been pretty lispy in dealing with Ottawa.
Sovereignty...this is what Quebec has been doing all along, now another Province want's the same, that is why I said in the other thread....I think we are heading for a Constitutional showdown over Jurisdiction/autonomy on guns, education, resources etc...
673; Good morning my friend, I see your light is on and hope your night was better than mine in terms of sleep!
We went for our morning walk and I was going to go look for a whitetail spike, but it started raining and the woodstove and the coffee just beckoned too much. It's warm here too again - if it was snowing up top I'd head out but I doubt it.
For sure I'm in agreement with your take on what's going on in Alberta now, in that they want in at Quebec's table. It's ironic that it's taken any of the other provinces this long to do that, but good for Alberta for doing so I say.
When I read about Riel's second attempt, it appears that even then there was considerable support for his cause among the farming community in Saskatchewan and Manitoba, but less so with the ranching community in Alberta. Now I think we could look at who owned the bigger ranches and what that all meant too though.
I laughed when I read your description of our provincial leaders being, "pretty lispy" - with your permission I'd like to use that should the occasion arise. Quite descriptive and funny - well done!
All the best to you all up there and good luck on your hunts.
Dwayne I am gearing up for another weekend of hunting too, going out with the boy for another scouting for a Bull Moose which opens tuesday for us. This weekend I am going to try and get a Mule deer for myself, the boy got a 4 point a couple weeks ago.
Trudeau has taken Canada to a defining moment, once again. I don't think his gun bans are going to fly.
Good. Once you get to know them, you will find out they are whiners, bigots and western separatists.
Wow!….. I knew you were a loser but I didn’t realize you were as pathetic as you truly are.
Congratulations on being the only person here in the history of the campfire to take issue with Dwayne. Easily the politest and most agreeable individual here and a man who would always be welcome in my camp or in my home and I don’t think it’s a stretch to say that most of the guys here feel the same way. Dwayne has everyone’s respect while you most certainly don’t!
If you’re representative of what’s produced in “the East” then I can’t fault anyone for disassociating themselves from you and your “eastern” mentality. You are a personification of the eastern personality and an excellent argument FOR western autonomy.
You’ve done much to show your true personality these past few years but if you have to attack Dwayne then you’ve obviously sunk to new lows.
Sadly, this is about right. Some of my best friends have been and are from the east, it took them awhile to realize that hunting/shooting is a lifestyle many of us lead, but....the last 3 people (customers) I have met were from Ontario, they were all recent arrivals to BC, they all were against hunting/guns, and wouldn't stfu, I simply fired them and don't waste anymore time with them.
A brief study into Canada's history will reveal a desire to separate west from east, or at least a form of Autonomy, near as I can figure that is what the proposed "Sovereignty act" in Alberta is all about. It is also what Native Canada wanted in Riel and friends, autonomy, not a dictatorship, sound familiar? Our Provincial leaders have been pretty lispy in dealing with Ottawa.
Sovereignty...this is what Quebec has been doing all along, now another Province want's the same, that is why I said in the other thread....I think we are heading for a Constitutional showdown over Jurisdiction/autonomy on guns, education, resources etc...
"I simply fired them and don't waste anymore time with them."
LOL!
I was born and raised in Quebec and grew up during the FLQ Crisis. I escaped in 1987 and moved out west, it was by far the single best decision I have ever made in my life! My only regret in my life is that I didn't pull the pin and moved out west as soon as I turned 18.
The week I left the Government was holding another referendum/vote on whether Quebec should separate, I voted YES for the separation vote, to do my best to get them out of Canada lol.
Here is an interesting fact:
When Quebec started their talk about Separation, all of the major companies left Montreal and moved their head officed to Toronto and Ontario. I was at a party in Toronto with a bunch of French people that were working for these large companies like Proctor and Gamble, as an example.
I was surprised at all of the Quebecers at this party and asked them why they left Quebec and were in Toronto. It turned out that all of these francophones were highly educated and were all recruited by these large companies after they graduated from university, so they had no option since all of the major corporations with their high paying jobs all left Quebec and went to Ontario.
What I discovered that evening is that by pushing their separation agenda, not only did Quebec lose billions in tax revenues, but they also experienced a serious "Brain Drain" with all of their top talent and highly educated youth moving to Toronto! How stupid is that?
Now Montreal is in disrepair with bridges falling down, the city is nowhere near as glamorous as it used to be. Also, the hunting SUCKS THE BIG ONE in Quebec and the only thing I miss is the Fly Fishing for Atlantic Salmon around the Gaspé Peninsula. These days I go to Prince Rupert and Terrace to fish for Salmon, Halibut and Cod. I do still miss eating Atlantic Salmon as they are way tastier than Chinook and Coho, because of their fat content.
I used to miss Montreal's Pizza and Strip Clubs, as the best Pizza's I have ever had were made at restaurants in Montreal, but I learned how to make them just as good at home, and I got married so I was banned from strip clubs lol.
One morning of fishing off the coast of Prince Rubert, I caught all of those fish myself, hard to beat!
Link isn't working, its about the memo Danielle Smith sent to her cabinet to see to it that they are all on the same page when dealing with Ottawa, LOL.
Link isn't working, its about the memo Danielle Smith sent to her cabinet to see to it that they are all on the same page when dealing with Ottawa, LOL.
673; Morning again sir.
Congrats to your son on the 4 point and good luck on your hunt.
We're down to the wire trying to find a mulie that'll stand still for our daughter too. They seem wired for sound when she's there and then stand there when I'm alone - since I cut a tag on a spike earlier...
No, I don't believe Danielle Smith is bluffing whatsoever. She's playing for all the marbles.
Meanwhile did you hear about PM Sock's $6000 a night hotel stay in London for the funeral of the queen? Pretty tone deaf but not surprising which is equally as sad.
Link isn't working, its about the memo Danielle Smith sent to her cabinet to see to it that they are all on the same page when dealing with Ottawa, LOL.
673; Morning again sir.
Congrats to your son on the 4 point and good luck on your hunt.
We're down to the wire trying to find a mulie that'll stand still for our daughter too. They seem wired for sound when she's there and then stand there when I'm alone - since I cut a tag on a spike earlier...
No, I don't believe Danielle Smith is bluffing whatsoever. She's playing for all the marbles.
Meanwhile did you hear about PM Sock's $6000 a night hotel stay in London for the funeral of the queen? Pretty tone deaf but not surprising which is equally as sad.
I do still miss eating Atlantic Salmon as they are way tastier than Chinook and Coho, because of their fat content.
Growing up In NB I used to believe that too, then I moved to BC and sunk my teeth into some nice bright fresh run Sockeye.....
Never focused on Sockeye, different season than Chinook. I can imagine how good they are since they are good out of a can.
One of my favorite things to eat is cold Atlantic Salmon out of the fridge, the night after the dinner party with the fat congealed and salted. YUM :o)
Good. Once you get to know them, you will find out they are whiners, bigots and western separatists. Frankly, I don't care what you think either. From the posts I've read from you thus far, you crave attention. You remind me of someone from the Yukon who used to post here. No one was interested in him either.
Don’t worry. You'll have plenty of attention in no time. The people who rarely post here, except to complain, should be along very shortly.
Hi Steve,
I don’t post much, if ever, on the Canada sub forum because it’s about your country, not mine. So I try not to inject my US bigotry into your style of living across the border.
But, I will say, even with the limited amount of reading I’ve done on anything you’ve posted. I’ve always been struck by your consistent efforts at making yourself sound like a craven, twat mouthed, dumb fûck.
Congratulations ~You got my attention this one time.
🦫
Curiosity Killed the Cat & The Prairie Dog “Molon Labe”
I just got home from a long season in the bush, and heard about the handgun ban just recently. Not surprising considering the party in power. Thanks to our opposition party, it sounds like the Yukon will not be taking part in the buy back program. At least thats what I understand from the bits and pieces Ive heard. I was in our local gun shop just after I got home and noticed that the handgun counter was indeed empty. Sad, but expected.
Good. Once you get to know them, you will find out they are whiners, bigots and western separatists. Frankly, I don't care what you think either. From the posts I've read from you thus far, you crave attention. You remind me of someone from the Yukon who used to post here. No one was interested in him either.
Don’t worry. You'll have plenty of attention in no time. The people who rarely post here, except to complain, should be along very shortly.
Hi Steve,
I don’t post much, if ever, on the Canada sub forum because it’s about your country, not mine. So I try not to inject my US bigotry into your style of living across the border.
But, I will say, even with the limited amount of reading I’ve done on anything you’ve posted. I’ve always been struck by your consistent efforts at making yourself sound like a craven, twat mouthed, dumb fûck.
Congratulations ~You got my attention this one time.
I will offer you the same advice too. Try being upbeat. Try being positive. Unfortunately, you don’t like hearing that either. Life is better when you mix in some fun.
Those aren’t my rules. Those are tips to living a better life.
Steve, I'm being very upbeat and positive when I suggest you should eat a bag of dicks.
I will offer you the same advice too. Try being upbeat. Try being positive. Unfortunately, you don’t like hearing that either. Life is better when you mix in some fun.
Those aren’t my rules. Those are tips to living a better life.
Steve, I'm being very upbeat and positive when I suggest you should eat a bag of dicks.
I will offer you the same advice too. Try being upbeat. Try being positive. Unfortunately, you don’t like hearing that either. Life is better when you mix in some fun.
Those aren’t my rules. Those are tips to living a better life.
Steve, I'm being very upbeat and positive when I suggest you should eat a bag of dicks.
Good Morning Dwayne, i am a little late to this conversation, was it 96-97 winter that we were gifted with 5 ft of snow in a very short time , I was about 70 miles from u in a straight line in Midway on the BC Washinton border and Ferry County, When i first moved there in late 93 early 94 on the south slope just below my ranch i could count over 100 deer mostly Muley maybe 10 White tail. After that winter the spring count was down to about 20 , to me that was a hugh winter kill , deep snow , yotes, cougar , the wolves had not moved in yet that i know of.
I did not hunt for 3 years after that hoping the there would be a better recovery, i hated watching Mule deer with 24 -28 in main tines walk away but felt that it was necessary for the health of the herds.
norm
There is not enough darkness in all the world to put out the light of even one small candle----Robert Alden . If it wern't entertaining, I wouldn't keep coming back.------the BigSky
norm99; Good morning to you my old friend, I hope you're well as we can be these days - all things considered and all that!
Thanks for the input, I very much appreciate it.
For sure it was the winter of '96 that blasted us. It was the only time I've had to shovel the roof of the house off.
If you recall it's a fairly low slope roof and the wet snow was past my knees.
Speaking of which, I wasn't very far up the mountain this morning looking for a whitetail or by some miracle a little bull moose - spike fork is legal - but the snow was up to my knees Norm, which is awfully early for that much snow.
We've not been cutting as many wolf tracks this fall as other years but there's no shortage of black bears - saw tracks in the neighborhood in the snow yesterday morning in fact. I really need to shoot more of them Norm, but admit at present I'd view it as a chore, but perhaps its a necessary one?
Funny you should drop in too as I was thinking about you the other day and the time you dropped by. If you're ever in the neighborhood please feel free to do so again.
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