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Originally Posted by beretzs
I am interested in what you think about it though. I haven't ever seen any 270-7mm-30 have much trouble breaking the scapula or the knuckle joints on elk if they were good bullets.

I've never had a problem with a scapula or "meaty shoulder shot" with any bullet, and can't remember ever hitting the upper leg bone, though I did hit the big knuckle once. That was with a 165 Horandy BTSP from a 308. The shot was 230 yards. At the shot there was a loud "crack." The bullet center punched the knuckle and went into the lungs. I found the lead-less jacket in the chest cavity. That's about the worst torture test of any game bullet I can think of. I've also never had any issue with 7-08 or 270, though there are a bunch of guys with a lot more experience than me with both those rounds. Also, I'm a "tight behind the shoulder" shooter by training, so I don't always connect on the shoulder.

I just don't think it's all that hard to kill elk with any controlled expansion bullet from general purpose BG cartridges, and I've killed bulls with the 270, 7-08, 308, 30-06, 300 WSM, and 338 WM.


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Brad,

Do you think that 165 grain Hornady BTSP would have made it if you shot that elk at 50 yards?

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Those joints are brutal on bullets.

This is a 180 PT found in the opposite joint cracking the other pretty good.

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

It’s the most mangled I’d even seen a PT.


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Originally Posted by Oldquailhunter
Brad,

Do you think that 165 grain Hornady BTSP would have made it if you shot that elk at 50 yards?

Good question. It definitely would have broken the knuckle and the bull would probably have hit the turf, but whether it would have made it into the lungs, I don't know.


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Originally Posted by beretzs
Those joints are brutal on bullets.

This is a 180 PT found in the opposite joint cracking the other pretty good.

It’s the most mangled I’d even seen a PT.

That's pretty cool!


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Originally Posted by Cascade
30-06, 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 2940 fps mv... 340 yard shot.

Bullet blew right through the scapula, trashed everything, broke the off-side scapula, but didn't make it through. She was down & dead within seconds.

Sadly I didn't find the bullet while field dressing.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Regards, Guy
I'll be willing to bet that you lost it when skinning her. The hide's like a trampoline. A bullet that's been slowed down that much will usually be caught by the hide and is lying loose under it. It fell out when you pulled the hide back.


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Originally Posted by Rock Chuck
Originally Posted by Cascade
30-06, 165 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip @ 2940 fps mv... 340 yard shot.

Bullet blew right through the scapula, trashed everything, broke the off-side scapula, but didn't make it through. She was down & dead within seconds.

Sadly I didn't find the bullet while field dressing.

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

Regards, Guy
I'll be willing to bet that you lost it when skinning her. The hide's like a trampoline. A bullet that's been slowed down that much will usually be caught by the hide and is lying loose under it. It fell out when you pulled the hide back.


I’d throw a dollar in with you there RC.


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Originally Posted by beretzs
Those joints are brutal on bullets.

This is a 180 PT found in the opposite joint cracking the other pretty good.

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

[Linked Image from hosting.photobucket.com]

It’s the most mangled I’d even seen a PT.

What cartridge and distance?

That’s a awesome pic!

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300 Win about 275 yards from what I remember.


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Originally Posted by duke61
7mm RM is perfectly capable as is 7mm-08 and 270 with proper bullet and range.

This^^^^^^^though I don't really prefer a shoulder joint shot, but just behind when possible.

Most good bullets from adequate chamberings will do just fine. Nosler Partitions have never disappointed.

MM

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Originally Posted by MontanaMan
Originally Posted by duke61
7mm RM is perfectly capable as is 7mm-08 and 270 with proper bullet and range.

This^^^^^^^though I don't really prefer a shoulder joint shot, but just behind when possible.

Most good bullets from adequate chamberings will do just fine. Nosler Partitions have never disappointed.

MM

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

I was hoping you'd chime in as well MM. I think Bob and you both had some 130's recovered from Elk. While I don't target the joint, or front leg bones totally on purpose, if they're on any sorta angle, I do point line up the far leg most times. Just an easy reference point.


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Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by MontanaMan
[quote=duke61] 7mm RM is perfectly capable as is 7mm-08 and 270 with proper bullet and range.

This^^^^^^^though I don't really prefer a shoulder joint shot, but just behind when possible.

Most good bullets from adequate chamberings will do just fine. Nosler Partitions have never disappointed.

MM

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

^^^ This ^^^


180gr Nosler Partition found just under the skin behind the far side shoulder (300wsm) 286 yds. First shot was through the boiler room, bullet not recovered. He just stood there and did a little shudder then acted like he wasn't even hit. They sure are impressive animals.

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Originally Posted by jc189
Originally Posted by beretzs
Originally Posted by MontanaMan
[quote=duke61] 7mm RM is perfectly capable as is 7mm-08 and 270 with proper bullet and range.

This^^^^^^^though I don't really prefer a shoulder joint shot, but just behind when possible.

Most good bullets from adequate chamberings will do just fine. Nosler Partitions have never disappointed.

MM

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

^^^ This ^^^


180gr Nosler Partition found just under the skin behind the far side shoulder (300wsm) 286 yds. First shot was through the boiler room, bullet not recovered. He just stood there and did a little shudder then acted like he wasn't even hit. They sure are impressive animals.

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

Are you sure that is a 180 Partition? The enclosed base kinda gives it away.


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Originally Posted by MontanaMan
Originally Posted by duke61
7mm RM is perfectly capable as is 7mm-08 and 270 with proper bullet and range.

This^^^^^^^though I don't really prefer a shoulder joint shot, but just behind when possible.

Most good bullets from adequate chamberings will do just fine. Nosler Partitions have never disappointed.

MM

[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]

There have been 4 killed on the ranch so far this year. 2 cows and 1 spike that went less than 100 yards apiece. The fourth a spike that went just under 200 yards maybe, and into a crappy gulch.
The first 3 were double lunged, the most recent was a single lung hit.
Various large calibers, Im not sure on the whole break the shoulder thing? It’s a big thing to many?
Lotta elk get lunged by bow hunters and fall down just fine as well.
Im glad for you guys who make the shoulder shot work.

Osky


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Well I guess anything is possible. That's what they were sold to me as. I bought several partial open box's of bullets from my gunsmith. That bullet came out of a nosler partition box. If it is not, it is a surprise to me. I loaded those bullets at his shop for that hunt. If it is not, I apologize for posting a pic that is not correct. But it sure did a nice job on an Elk.

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Last couple of COVID seasons when Partitions and bonded bullets were not to be found, I turned to the new-to-me ELD-X.

It was an exercise in patience. Broadside only, waiting for the near-side leg to take a step, then firing.

After 4 elk that way, I still don't know if I'd use that bullet on about any shot angle, or deliberately on bone. Just haven't heard enough from others how well that bullet holds together.

In any case, now I can get my hands on any number of bonded bullets, so I guess it don't matter...

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Originally Posted by jc189
Well I guess anything is possible. That's what they were sold to me as. I bought several partial open box's of bullets from my gunsmith. That bullet came out of a nosler partition box. If it is not, it is a surprise to me. I loaded those bullets at his shop for that hunt. If it is not, I apologize for posting a pic that is not correct. But it sure did a nice job on an Elk.

No doubt it worked, but I'd probably bet a buck it isn't a Partition. Not that it matters, looks like it worked like it was supposed to.


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Quote
180gr Nosler Partition found just under the skin behind the far side shoulder (300wsm) 286 yds. First shot was through the boiler room, bullet not recovered. He just stood there and did a little shudder then acted like he wasn't even hit. They sure are impressive animals.
Quite likely you hit a major artery which created massive internal bleeding. The blood pressure plummeted and he went into shock. He was dead on his feet. The problem is, are you SURE he's in shock? If he is, he's dead. But, if you didn't hit anything vital, he could get his feet under him and take off. The only way to be sure it so shoot again. I once put 4 shots into a bull's lungs like that. They were jello and the far shoulder was broken. He just stood there, then slowly fell over. He was in shock and just waiting to finish bleeding out before he collapsed.


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I have killed a lot of elk in my 55 years of hunting them and in about 1/2 of that time I also guided hunters so I have seen a LOT more killed then those I have killed myself
I have seen them killed with rifles as small as 243s and as large as a 577 Snider, and 62 caliber flintlock.
Bullet construction is far more important then BC, SD, velocity, and all the marketers hype they try to force feed you.

I have killed them with 7X57 Mauser, 7MM Rem Mag and 7MM Weatherby mag. If using good bullets they break the big bones just fine. So does a 270 Winchester with 150grain partitions and the old Remington Core-Lokts and the 160 grain Partitions too. In fact the old Remington bullets were superb.
In my years of guiding the 2 calibers that gave the worst bullet performance overall were the 7 Mags and the 300 Mags and 100% of those failures were because of using bullets that were to fragile for an animal that large. And yet if loaded with proper bullets they all worked like magic.
I took a man out many years ago who came from new Jersey to hunt in the Selway and he shot a bull that ran off a ways. He has a 300 Weatherby Mag and loaded it with 165 grain bullets (I think they were Speer Hot Cores) We caught up to the elk about 500 yards from the place he hit it (still took us about an hour to find it) and I shot it 3 times with my 44 mag. He made a comment how a handgun was worthless if his 300 Weatherby didn't drop it, but was shocked to see all 3 of my round exited his bull and his bullet went only about 14 inches deep and didn't make it to the other lung. Mine were all hits in the mid or rear body as it ran away, and all 3 came out the front of the chest. After that he started to listen when I told him what bullets' to bring.
He hunted with me 4 times in the next years and every time after that he showed up with 220 grain bullets loaded. Never has a problem after that.

That is one of several stories I can relay about such lack of performance and shallow penetration's, but in case of a gal shooting a 243 with Barnes X bullets she did fine. Not all exits, but all went clear through and were on the skin on the off side.

A 7MM mag (or a 7-08 or 7x57) is fine for elk if you load "elk bullets" in it. My old favorites were the 160 and the 175 grain Partitions, but today you can pick from others that are fine too. Stay away from those that break up and you will be fine even if you need to take a quartering shot.

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Originally Posted by saddlesore
I have killed elk witha 7 mag, .06, .308 and a few more. Most with a heavy for caliber bullet or a partition As state the quality of the bullet has a lot to do with breaking shoulders, but am not a fan of that shot.

I have read some guys say they would rather take home half an animal with shot up meat than none. I'd rather wait for abetter shot presentation and take home a whole animal with no blood shot meat
I agree. Wait for a good shot, don't blow up the bones, and don't keep pumping lead. They will fall over soon enough with a lung/heart hit.

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