Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Handguns Hard Cast vs HP - Defensive carry

How bout it?

Hard cast as a viable alternative to hollow points in a defensive situation? Any problems out of a shorter barreled carry pistol like a 3" barrel?

All my carry guns have the first and second shots hard cast, then HP.

I carry and use hard cast.

Hollowpoints are notorious for inconsistent performance in shorter barrels. They tend to get clogged up with intermediate material (such as clothing) and give erratic results. Wider meplat hard cast on the other hand does not. It gives rather consistent performance and deep penetration.

There is a very good reason why handgun hunters have used heavy hard cast bullets for a long time. They simply work.

Back when we were seeing a significant amount of riots across the country, with people getting drug out of cars, people running over other people with their cars, etc, as well as the significant increase in shootings in general, I switched from carrying JHPs in my 9mm, and started carrying heavy hardcast bullets. Their ability to punch straight through barriers was a primary reason. 9mm, .40 or .45, in every one, I carry hard cast bullets.















The added bonus is that I use the same ammo for large animal defense as I do for carry when I am home. One load for everything.

With life being a stream of compromises and non-guarantee's how much wt. should one put on the potential for over penetration with the hardcast in the urban environment? Worth carrying standard defense rounds (fed hst etc. etc.) in the spare mag to swap over to when situation permits, or..? I'm not familiar with stats. on noncombatants(nc) being hit after projectile penetration of the original target so reason for my ?'s, maybe not a practical concern? There are shooting techniques to prevent hitting nc's via pass through's by dropping down to one knee/lower firing position etc. to shoot up through the target sending the bullet/s above bystanders but you may not have time, so...? ..Am I over thinking this?

If one lives in middle of nowhere and does not visit urban centers it would probably be ok. In 9x19, 4OS&W FMJ FP probably would work as well as hard cast. I am sticking with Short Barrel loads from Speer. People using peep squik calibers smaller than 9x17 often carry FMJ ammo for defense use.

How often do you hear about projectiles completely going through their intended recipient and having enough energy to do harm to a secondary target, versus the shooter missing the intended target and striking something that they did not intend to?

It is exceedingly rare that "shoot-throughs" happen where a secondary target is injured.

People getting hit who were not supposed to is an entirely different matter, but that is a marksmanship problem and not a projectile performance problem.

[quote=Mackay_Sagebrush]I carry and use hard cast.

Hollowpoints are notorious for inconsistent performance in shorter barrels. They tend to get clogged up with intermediate material (such as clothing) and give erratic results. Wider meplat hard cast on the other hand does not. It gives rather consistent performance and deep penetration.

There is a very good reason why handgun hunters have used heavy hard cast bullets for a long time. They simply work.

Back when we were seeing a significant amount of riots across the country, with people getting drug out of cars, people running over other people with their cars, etc, as well as the significant increase in shootings in general, I switched from carrying JHPs in my 9mm, and started carrying heavy hardcast bullets. Their ability to punch straight through barriers was a primary reason. 9mm, .40 or .45, in every one, I carry hard cast bullets.



Yea, what he said, and then some...... + I can't remember the last time I shot any Hollow-Points, other than maybe in my .22......

FMJ performs nothing at all like hard cast.

I think that Mackay summed it up pretty well! memtb

I still carry JHP in the 9mm, but I like the heavier projectiles that don't expand as much as others. I carry 9mm +P 135gr FTX Critical Duty, and Hornady 147gr XTP.

The HST and similar expand so much that penetration is compromised (in my opinion). That's just me though. I value deep penetration over maximum expansion.

Recently got back in the 38-snub game. For that it's Underwood 150gr hard cast wadcutter advertised at 1000 fps. I figure it's probably 850 fps or so out of the little Ruger LCRx with 1 7/8" barrel. Considering the low velocity, I believe the hard cast wadcutter will deliver fairly good damage and penetration.

I use JHP in all my defense handguns. Old habits…….

Good points Mackay, thanks for the post.

Use all copper bullets from Lehigh. Either their X-treme Penetrator or X-treme Defense. Check out the YouTube tests for them on various calibers, especially for .380 ACP, 9mm Para, and .45 ACP. These are not expanding bullets, but rely on hydraulic compression to damage tissue. They are devastating in ballistic gel and penetrate greatly. In a semi-auto, they feed like a FMJ. If you don't load your own, Underwood makes loaded ammo with these bullets. Also, the old tried and true SWC is a pretty darn good choice in 9mm and .45 ACP. Go heavy with the 9mm with a SWC and fast as you can. With a 2" barreled .38SPL, go with full wadcutters or, if you can find them, Federal HSTs (jacketed wadcutters with a HUGE hollow cavity). If handloaded, do them at 800 or so FPS. 3.6 gr. of Titegroup will do the trick and it will be quite controlable and devastating to the target. The huge cavity will open up to about 3/4 inch, but they will not over penetrate. The hollow cavity is so huge that it is not going to clog up and fail to expand. However, it is not going to penetrate deeply. As long as you hit the intended target, it will unlikely be a danger to anything behind the target. Also, keep in mind that this particular load will not penetrate much of a solid barrier. Generally speaking, most JHPs will not reliably expand under 900 FPS. Therefore, in my opinion, unless you are carrying a Lehigh type bullet or the specialized Federal HST in a snubbie, and if you are less than 900 FPS, give me a solid SWC. JMHO. YMMV.

Are most of you rolling your own or buying factory HC?

If y'all are hand making these, is there anything special outside of the typical cast bullet kits they sell to reloaders? If so, what equipment do y'all recommend?

Does HC foul a barrel quicker than jackets to be a major concern?

If you're buying HC bullets what factory brand you using?

Does the diameter increase, between 9mm and 45 for instance, have a greater precedence with HC bullets, or is it a moot point like the more commercial HP rounds?

Trying to learn, thanks for the input!

Recently ordered some HC from Rim Rock Bullets in MT

9mm/148's TC

10mm/200's TC

45 ACP/225's TC

Great pricing & FAST free shipping over $140 order

https://rimrockbullets.com/xcart/-40-10mm-200-gr-tc-the-outdoorsman-per-700.html

I use HC from Missouri Bullet Co. as they are good folks. Also have used Magnus and Lasercast. If properly sized never had any significant fouling. All 3 offer ~18-20 hardness which is plenty. I handload mine. As Mackay stated earlier I got hooked on hard cast hunting deer with a 41 mag Blackhawk. No erratic performance as with HP.

My carry pistol is an LCP Max. I keep it loaded with hardcast truncated cone 100 grain bullets over 5 grains of AA #5. They're very similar to the standard pressure hardcast .380 load from Buffalo Bore ammo. They penetrate 30+ inches in ballistic gel.

Watch out Bristoe, Salvek will be around to call you a puzzy for shooting a pip squeak caliber. Just ordered some 85 grain monos supposed to clock 1280. Hoping they might work like a HC as I am tired of getting raped for 380 bullets.

Yeah. An LCP Max isn't as good of a defensive tool as a 1911. But I can hit with it and a 100 grain hardcast flat point doing 950 ought to punch a hole clean through even a fat man.

I consider it much superior to those small 5 shot 2" .38 revolvers that people have been carrying for defense for decades provided that it's loaded with effective ammo.

In the past I've kept it loaded with Berry's 100 grain plated hollow points over the same 5 grains of AA #5,..and I'm undecided which is best. The copper plated hollow points have a reputation for opening up fairly readily. But I'm not confident that they will penetrate sufficiently at .380 velocities.

If I was using a heavier built .380 pistol I might be inclined to use the hollow points and twist their ear a bit at the loading bench. But with the LCP Max I think my best bet is hardcast flat points.

For .380, federal’s new hydra shock deep is the only .380 HP load to meet the FBI minimum for bare and clothed gel. It also does better than most at barriers. It certainly won’t penetrate as well as a cast bullet, but it is a solid choice for those that want a hollow point. And the LCP max is a very nice shooting gun.