|
|
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 759
Campfire Regular
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 759 |
Gents....
One of my projects this winter is to work up 200gr loads in 30-06 with 200gr Partitions, 200gr Hot-Cor, 200gr eld-x, and 200gr Oryx. I have all these on hand with the goal being one or two loads for elk, black bear, moose, mule deer, and antelope. Asking a lot, I know.
I have a late 70's era 700BDL and a Vanguard Series II both factory configuration. Have worked up many loads with 165gr and 180gr bullets over the years....200gr load dev't is new territory.
With all the background laid out, my question is what have you guys seen with powders that get you 2700 fps and an honest 1 MOA result.
I have Hunter, RL26, StaBall 6.5, H4831sc, Superformance, IMR4955 to use. Have plenty of H4350, Norma URP (no MRP tho'), RL16, Accurate 4350 I could use too...... these last ones lower on the totem pole to try.
What have all y'all seen with 200gr pills in 30-06? I have read the old threads re 200gr partition loads but not much said about many of these other powders I mention.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,943
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 4,943 |
I easily got 2730 fps with 62 gr/RL26/Federal 210M/200 gr Nosler Partition/R-P and Lapua brass. This in a 24” barrel, book load and superb accuracy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,614
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 8,614 |
Swifty
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,299
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 12,299 |
Interesting project. I'll be following it as I've been giving heavier bullet some thought. Rl17 Might be good. I've done some work with that in the 7x57 and gotten good speed. It's supposed to be good in the 30-06 as well but I haven't tried it. Dunno if IMR 7828 would work as I think it is a bit slower than H4831sc.
I came into a supply of Sierra 220 gr. round nose bullets that I was thinking of playing with in the 30-06. Medical problems got in the way so haven't been able to do anything regarding shooting or reloading for quite a while.
PJ
Our forefathers did not politely protest the British.They did not vote them out of office, nor did they impeach the king,march on the capitol or ask permission for their rights. ----------------They just shot them.
MOLON LABE
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,895
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 30,895 |
You can do it. Some of these loads would be pretty compressed:
Cartridge : .30-06 Spring. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .308, 200, Nosler PART SP 35626
Useable Case Capaci: 58.710 grain H2O = 3.812 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 24.0 inch = 609.6 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 59000 psi, or 406 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
103 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 85%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 *C 107.1 62.3 4.04 2798 100.0 59000 10492 1.203 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP *C 107.6 60.8 3.94 2764 99.3 59000 10522 1.207 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 *C 109.2 60.4 3.91 2743 96.5 59000 10605 1.207 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 109.6 63.1 4.09 2734 94.9 59000 10622 1.211 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 *C 109.5 59.9 3.88 2730 98.3 59000 10281 1.212 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 107.3 59.6 3.86 2717 96.8 59000 10215 1.204 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 *T 96.4 54.7 3.55 2717 100.0 59000 9269 1.212 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-16 *C *T 101.3 53.4 3.46 2705 100.0 59000 9244 1.208 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 108.0 59.1 3.83 2701 96.6 59000 10108 1.205 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 108.8 64.1 4.16 2697 98.6 59000 9813 1.207 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 101.1 56.5 3.66 2684 99.6 59000 9514 1.222 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 *C 105.6 57.2 3.70 2682 98.1 59000 9739 1.217 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 104.9 56.4 3.66 2678 97.9 59000 9655 1.211 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 95.4 54.6 3.54 2677 99.2 59000 9493 1.226 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 95.4 54.6 3.54 2677 99.2 59000 9493 1.226 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 *C *T 110.0 58.2 3.77 2676 100.0 55697 9238 1.244 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP *C 100.6 53.8 3.49 2666 100.0 59000 9110 1.230 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 *C 97.6 54.0 3.50 2666 100.0 59000 9232 1.236 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 100.0 54.1 3.51 2664 100.0 59000 9087 1.246 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 110.0 58.9 3.82 2664 97.4 54487 10109 1.256 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 *C 91.0 53.7 3.48 2660 100.0 59000 9022 1.228 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon LVR 97.9 53.0 3.43 2659 99.9 59000 9078 1.228 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 *C 100.0 55.9 3.62 2655 97.8 59000 9451 1.220 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 105.6 54.7 3.55 2650 100.0 59000 8911 1.239 ! Near Maximum !
You didn't use logic or reason to get into this opinion, I cannot use logic or reason to get you out of it.
You cannot over estimate the unimportance of nearly everything. John Maxwell
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 759
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 759 |
Thanks Swifty. I have looked at all of these too. Was wondering what some of you guys have seen out there who have used it. Additionally my Hornady manual shows 56.7gr of Superformance at 2650fps for eld-x and my Speer manual shows 2667fps with 57.8gr RL26 and Hot Cor bullets.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 759
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 759 |
Interesting project. I'll be following it as I've been giving heavier bullet some thought. Rl17 Might be good. I've done some work with that in the 7x57 and gotten good speed. It's supposed to be good in the 30-06 as well but I haven't tried it. Dunno if IMR 7828 would work as I think it is a bit slower than H4831sc.
I came into a supply of Sierra 220 gr. round nose bullets that I was thinking of playing with in the 30-06. Medical problems got in the way so haven't been able to do anything regarding shooting or reloading for quite a while.
PJ Yeah Hornady shows RL17 giving same top velocity as with Superformance...2650fps. RL16 often gives pretty much the same top end velocity but is a little more bulky... may not get enough RL16 in the case.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 759
Campfire Regular
|
|
OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2020
Posts: 759 |
Thanks Antelope Sniper,
Really surprised cfe223 and Hlvr give those kind of velocities.... given their burn rate.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,425
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 7,425 |
Medics bury their mistakes..
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,201
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,201 |
In the mid 90’s two friends and I borrowed a Oehler M43 Ballistics Lab for the entire summer. It was quite the learning curve with first time users of a computer, the Oehler program,and glueing on strain gauges.
One of my rifles I tested the most was a 30-06 AI with a 22” Shilen bbl, and 180g and 200g NPt’s, using H4350, IMR4831, and H4831, and even gave IMR7828 a whirl, once.
With apologies to Seafire any powder charge with the 200g NPt that exceeded 2700fps was in excess of 60k psi. Any powder charge with the 180g NPt or Sierra Bt that exceeded 2800fps was in excess of 60k psi. It was pretty consistent results. That was with Ackley Improved capacity. Although a 24” bbl might get there.
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697 |
Well surprised I tripped across this thread....been avoiding the campfire last week somewhat, since I've been pissed at the MF democRATs, doing their usual cheating once again.....
but back on topic... We had this conversation a long time ago, I worked up a load as someone's question caught my imagination, so I went out and experimented with it. The powder I chose was 4831SC....with a 200 grain Speer and Sierra, I was able to exceed 2700 by a good bit. You had to crimp the bullet, to keep the powder expanding and pushing the bullet out, from the compressed load.
I did have some guy from Australia come on and ask if I had pressure tested the loads with testing equipment... NOT really, as I don't have a ballistic lab in the basement, or in the garage. Then I got flamed for quite a few pages in a short period of time, that my loads were going to blow up a rifle and kill someone....
Then some guy named Mike came on, and said he supported my findings.... so the Australian guy caught that post and asked him the same question about having Ballistic Testing equipment. "Well yes I do" came back the answer. In fact the guy left his phone number for anyone who wanted to call him and ask about it.... I noticed the area code was the Same as Mine.... 541.
So I called Mike, who had made the statement that you can't get enough 4831SC into an 06 case to exceed SAAMI specs. I got the switchboard operator that answered the phone with " Nosler Bullets, how may I direct your call?" I was surprised, but asked to be transferred to Mike. We talked a good 15 to 20 minutes, about my findings and his findings on the same subject. He said my work was good and I had the same conclusions and experiences he had....
So I'll leave it at that. Anyone wants to try and dig up that thread, can feel free to muff dive in the campfire records for it...
But with a 200 grain bullet, 2700 fps is safe, and is under SAAMI specs.. at least according to Nosler's lab info. Mike was Nosler's chief ballistician at the time of that thread.... he stated he had had a lot of calls on the subject, and he noticed just like me.. in short order, the thread migrated to page 4 in less than 24 hours.. and was pretty much dropped into oblivion.
2800 fps plus is also possible and is under SAAMI specs for the 06.... but if ya want more, and aren't experienced at the Reload bench, then up yourself to a 300 WIN Mag...
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,201
Campfire Ranger
|
|
Campfire Ranger
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 26,201 |
I knew you were gonna lambast me😁….
Casey
Not being married to any particular political party sure makes it a lot easier to look at the world more objectively...
Having said that, MAGA.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 42,697 |
I knew you were gonna lambast me😁…. I wasn't lambasting YOU... I KNOW you are experienced... its more aimed at the ones who aren't experienced, so they don't need to go down the unbeaten path. I am taking Mike's words from Nosler, that the loads I ended up with didn't exceed SAAMI specs, based in his testing and pressure testing. I never had any issues with my brass, primers, or rifles using those loads, which were testing in 5 different 30/06s... From a Browning, Remington, Model 70, and a 1917 Surplus Enfield 30/06.
"Minus the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the Country" Marion Barry, Mayor of Wash DC
“Owning guns is not a right. If it were a right, it would be in the Constitution.” ~Alexandria Ocasio Cortez
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 805
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 805 |
Every rifle chamber is an engine unto itself.
So is every owner. You get to decide what you reload and kindness is a virtue. Thanks for all the recitation of your loading history to the folks contributing. Valuable.
F01
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,879
Campfire 'Bwana
|
|
Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 30,879 |
Kimber Classic Select, 168 TTSX, Ramshot Hunter, Federal 215 primer. 2951 FPS 24" barrel 200 yard group ![[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]](https://i.postimg.cc/0N8dcKX1/20220912-143201.jpg)
I got banned on another web site for a debate that happened on this site. That's a first
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,728
Campfire Tracker
|
|
Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 3,728 |
I remember getting 2700+ with some rifles and the 200 NP/Sierra BT, but "accuracy" always leveled off right around 2600-2650. Even in 24 inch barrels, but that was in my rifles, of course. I just know it will knock the snot out of 300# hogs! ha
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,226
Campfire Regular
|
|
Campfire Regular
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,226 |
"There are old reloaders and there are bold reloaders, but....." 
Murphy was a grunt.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,289
Campfire Outfitter
|
|
Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 8,289 |
It would be easier to ream it to akley improved. I run 180's at 2750 in my 22", that's about the limit.
"Life is tough, even tougher if your stupid"
John Wayne
|
|
|
|
|
390 members (12344mag, 1lesfox, 06hunter59, 160user, 01Foreman400, 1beaver_shooter, 37 invisible),
1,860
guests, and
1,037
robots. |
|
Key:
Admin,
Global Mod,
Mod
|
|
|
Forums81
Topics1,190,602
Posts18,454,671
Members73,908
| |
Most Online11,491
Jul 7th, 2023
|
|
|
|
