Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Express Rifles and Big Bores Only The great 458 Winchester. Everyone should own one at least once

There Sir Jerry goes again, talkin' way over my header.
Drag racing lingo of which I am ignorant.
Oh well, I'll stick to busting rocks and such.
Speaking of which ...

















Remember that a .458 B&M+ with COL of 3.220" with the 404-gr Hammer
has same case capacity as a .458 WM+ with COL of 3.480" with same bullet.
So this is like Sir Jerry's Safari load.
The 16.9" barrel makes it about 150 fps slower at the muzzle than a 24" barrel.
The shorter and fatter .458 B&M case is possibly more efficient than the longer and skinnier cases,
especially the .458 Lott, heh-heh.

If I can slow the 16.9" barrel down to 2350 fps MV,
impact velocity will be down to 1795 fps at 300 yards.
Realistic range for me to hit a deer.
Should work on deer the size of elk and moose out to that range.
Step it up to Sir Jerry's +2500 fps MV and make it a 400-yard elk and moose hammer,
404-gr Shock Hammer.
I can keep a magazine full of the 400-gr FN from CEB at 2.990" COL in the M70 WSM action,
and a buttstock carrier full of 3.220" COL Hammers for single loading.

Funny stuff, most educational and good shooting Sir Ron, i can see you're taking a shine to those shoat rifles ; ]

Can see where they'd be mighty handy in a big grizz alder/willow thicket.

Yep, makes a good gun for deploying from inside a sleeping bag
when the big bear presses his nose on your tent.
Great for latrine duty too as a "Dunny Gunny" where it is advisable to have no longer than a 20" barrel length,
like on the Ruger Hawkeye Alaskans in .416 and .375 Ruger:



Some countries won't let a single hunter bring 2 rifles of same chambering.
Good backup for the .458 WM+ when you are not allowed to bring two of them.
Gotta get that shoat rifle shooting more accurately.
All of my longer-barreled .458 WM+ rifles and loads have done better,
But they were in rifles that were glass bedded properly.
The .458 B&M+ shoat is being used dropped into Tupperware with original hotglue bedding crumbling there.
Time to properly epoxy bed it in ... maybe the Ultimate Shadow plastic stock
that has been "re-textured" with truck bed coating paint.

Mercy, you have moved my beloved 375 & 416 Rugers to mere shat-house duties 😳😳

There is no greater good than keeping the peace and no place where peace is more valuable than in the outhouse.
So; said another way; “there is no mere duty.” Duty always bears the same weight.
F01

Sir Ron,

The idea is to have all four bullets (600gr, 550gr, 500gr and 450gr) hit the medium with approximately the same energy (3300 - 3400 ft-lbs). This will be at a simulated hunting range hit of between 150 to 200 yards - of course, BC of each will be a significant factor in that, so I'm leaning on what is published. Momentum will rank in order from the heaviest (600gr) to the lightest (450gr). Penetration and general destruction of the media (at 5 yards) will be recorded as well as bullet weight retained. The 250gr MonoFlex will be an entity unto itself - that will be my current hunting load. The 500 DGX is bonded.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Interesting selection Bob.
I would expect the order for penetration in the reverse of your listing....

John

The 500-gr DGX-Bonded should be the greatest penetrator of the listed softs.
250-gr Monoflex will go less than half as deep.
This is my SWAG, from deepest to shallowest:
500-gr DGX-Bonded
450-gr AF
550-gr RNSN
600-gr B.O.
250-gr Monoflex

If it's not a blizzard or hurricane, I'll be starting the test on Monday, Nov 21, one week from today. We've had very good weather for the latter part of October and early November. Lately it has turned much colder with some light snow.

I think Sir Ron's SWAG will be close.

The media will be nearly 2 feet of tightly packed dry, glossy magazines. MV will be to simulate impact ranges of 160 to 190 yards depending on the BCs of the particular bullets.

The former test from my Ruger No.1 in .45-70 LT fired the 500gr Speer AGS and 480 DGX (non-bonded) at close to the same MV using the same load for each: 1750 for the Speer and 1780 for the DGX. As mentioned, the 500 Speer was arrested at 6.5" having lost it's front core, and the 480 DGX passed completely through impacting a ledge behind the setup leaving an imprint not larger than it's caliber. The 350 TSX penetrated the complete setup but stopped at the last panel of the last box fully expanded (15.5"). They left the muzzle at ~2470 fps.

The new test will have more depth and more magazines of at least 24" or more.

Hoping the weather cooperates, and that no other matters interfere - if so, I'll merely reschedule it.

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

Sir Bob,
If your 500-gr DGX-Bonded had MV of 2150 fps and your test medium is like a 5,000- to 10,000-pound critter,
it would probably perform like this 480-gr DGX-Bonded did, for a time-traveling dinosaur hunter working on his dinosaur grand slam.
This hunter wishes to remain anonymous for reasons we do not want to discuss:

Hornady should get credit for making some good DG bullets, finally, after all these years, bless their hearts.

You bet Sir Ron, i am very thankful for them, those bullets are perfect in both double rifle regulation and performance, after the Woodleigh fire, they are the only game left in town for my old British Double, that said, and the way these two bullets acted, i can't see myself going back to Woodleigh in this double, the flat nosed solids do penetrate deeper AND straighter than the round nose, i also don't believe the round nosed Weldcore softs would go as deep as this bonded DGX did, great, great performance at 2148 fps from the old doubles 26" barrels.

Plus Hornady are affordable and doesn't require a kidney and a first born or a 30 year loan to purchase

Sometime in April of this year I came across a rare find at my favorite gun emporium: some boxes (50 count each) of 550gr Woodleigh Weldcore SPs, Barnes Original 600s and Hornady 500gr DGX. The Barnes Os had 20 each per box - I bought two at $34.99 each, and one box each of the Woodleighs and Hornadys, at $97.99 for the 50 Woodleighs and $2 more for 50 DGXs. So that worked out to about $2 per bullet, plus tax, including the 550 Woodleighs which, according to the date of manufacture on the box, were made in June/96.

So far, only one (1) of those 140 bullets has been fired - a 550 Woodleigh over 48 grains of 5744 at a recorded 1657 fps at 5 yards from the muzzle on June 10/22. Two others have been loaded the same for tests. Plus 3 of the 550s over 64 grains of H4895. Three 600gr Barnes are loaded with 48 grains of 5744, and three 500 DGX over 64 grains of H4895, plus three 450gr Swifts over 65 grains of H4895. The 250gr MonoFlexs sit on 65 grains 5744 (that has been tried at the range several times and sighted in my Ruger .458 for bear at ~2680 fps. I might yet add the 450 TSX to this test.

But overnight, we just had our first snow storm (not flurries). Not a lot - about 10 cm (4"), and flurries are forcast for the rest of the week with temps just hovering the freezing mark. But I'm still planning on the test, God willing!

Thanks Sir Ron for those pixs of the 480 Hornady's at work! It confirms my beliefs. And thanks to Sir Jerry for using them!

Bob
www.bigbores.ca

I agree also! Been enjoying their ammo for years like many others here. It just seems that they really do try to take their products to the next level.
Great Quality Control, that's truly missing from much of society, and what we buy Today!

For sure, Sir Tony, Hornady deserves more respect, just like the .458 WinMag at a .458 Lottite tea party.

Here is some more good poop on the 404-gr/.458 Shock Hammer.
Impact velocity of 1950 fps at 200 yards, it expands perfectly explosively
even on the little resistance of a little buck that needed to be removed from the gene pool:

The 24"-barreled .458 WM+ load at +2500 fps with the 404-gr Shock Hammer,
as proven by Sir Jerry in Africa,
has 400-yard killing potential,
more potential than I am capable of.

I was shock hammered myself by the lack of blood spew from either entrance or exit wound on the deer.
I was looking for a lower velocity impact here.
Higher velocity impacts might show more blow back or blow out of blood.
Of course this deer did not take another breath nor another step after the impact.
So, there was no blowout of air from respirations while running.
No blood trail is a good thing in this case.

Good work RIP.