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I know this is been discussed a few times most generally most people will say swag them never cut material out of the primer pocket. now I'm referring to military crimps and getting rid of them.
basically is there any tests that have ever been done to confirm that swagging is actually better and stronger for the primer pockets than cutting the crimp?
the last couple weeks I've swagged about 3,000. and got probably 10 or 12,000 to go. cutting them is much easier which is leading to my question.

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This is where the dillon would be handy, fast and perfect. If not going to reload them again I'd use the cutter.

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Seen it firsthand to many times never remove the crimp with a cutter. Swage the pocket first, then a light chamfer to remove the burr that swaging leaves. If you cut the crimp out till you can seat a primer you will only have half the pocket depth for primer support left. That's totally retarded you don't need the primer cup expanding out in the cut area....mb


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Even when I swage them, I provide a light cut. Otherwise, I get the occasional primer that doesn't fit.


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Using the right cutter, done right works just fine.

Cutting with a neck deburring tool is not using the right tool.

Nuff said.

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I have used the Dillon on thousands. Taking your time setting up the dillon, swedge a few, seat primers on the spot with a hand too, adjust as necessary. We have never had a problem with this method.

Problem occurs when you do not try and seat primers during the process.

Also part of the process, grab a hand full at a time, case heads up. Now check for off center flash holes...some lot# have a Lot of off center flash holes also burrs inside the case were the flash hole was punched.

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Originally Posted by Magnum_Bob
Seen it firsthand to many times never remove the crimp with a cutter. Swage the pocket first, then a light chamfer to remove the burr that swaging leaves. If you cut the crimp out till you can seat a primer you will only have half the pocket depth for primer support left. That's totally retarded you don't need the primer cup expanding out in the cut area....mb
This ^^

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The Hornady tool mentioned in that article removes crimps just fine but doesn't remove enough material to weaken the case. I can see how a chamfer tool could cause a problem though.


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Quote
If not going to reload them again I'd use the cutter.

This is just crazy.

I've reloaded a bunch of military 5.56 and .308 brass, and use a crimp reamer exclusively. They are just as fast as a Dillon, considerably cheaper, and require no setup or adjustment when using different head stamps. I set mine up in an RCBS trim center, and alternate the reamer with a primer pocket uniforming tool...never had an issue.

eta: I've done thousands upon thousands this way, and will never go back to swaging.

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I've used the Hornady cutter, the RCBS press mounted swager, and the Dillon swager. The Hornady is the fastest but chamfers the pocket more than required. The Dillon works fine but doesn't provide any chamfer at all to the pocket. The RCBS is junk and not worth the time involved. Presently I use the Dillon and follow with a slight chamfer from a deburring tool.


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I use cutters of various types, and when you don't overdo it they work fine.

Also used a cutter on a PILE of .17 Hornet brass when Hornady first came out with the round. For some reason quite a bit of the factory ammo had very shallow primer pockets, loaded with very "shallow" primers. (Where they got the primers I don't know.) Set up a small-primer uniforming tool in a drill motor, and deepened something 250-300 primer pockets so I could use "normal" SR primers. Am still using that brass today, no problems.


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Speaking of Hornady brass with shallow primer pockets.... Over the summer I was reloading for my buddies 300 PRC. Once fired Hornady factory ammo that he bought just to have some brass. Did my usual primer pocket ritual with the Hornady Case Prep Trio. A powered gizmo with primer pocket uniformer and chamfer & deburr stations. I've been uniforming primer pockets at least since the 1990's and over the years have stopped fretting about high primers because the uniforming tools ream out the bottom of the pocket so well I don't even worry about it anymore. I just clean it up until the bottom of the pocket is shiny and I don't want to make it too deep. Turns out that brass had shallow pockets, primers were slightly high, but it still chambered & fired. Did some rough measurements but didn't write it down, the pockets were a tiny bit shallow. Got out my old piece of window glass that I formerly used to stand rounds on to check for high primers. Hadn't used it in years but sometimes those good old fashioned methods are still worthwhile and prudent. Live & learn.

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Originally Posted by Jason280
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If not going to reload them again I'd use the cutter.

This is just crazy.

I've reloaded a bunch of military 5.56 and .308 brass, and use a crimp reamer exclusively. They are just as fast as a Dillon, considerably cheaper, and require no setup or adjustment when using different head stamps. I set mine up in an RCBS trim center, and alternate the reamer with a primer pocket uniforming tool...never had an issue.

eta: I've done thousands upon thousands this way, and will never go back to swaging.


What Jason said x100 👍😎

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Chuck the Hornady cutter in your cordless drill and get some high volume going.... wink


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My Lyman VLD chamfer tool takes out the crimp perfectly on LC 223 brass. The nose bottoms out just as you get the right amount of chamfer.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I use cutters of various types, and when you don't overdo it they work fine.

Also used a cutter on a PILE of .17 Hornet brass when Hornady first came out with the round. For some reason quite a bit of the factory ammo had very shallow primer pockets, loaded with very "shallow" primers. (Where they got the primers I don't know.) Set up a small-primer uniforming tool in a drill motor, and deepened something 250-300 primer pockets so I could use "normal" SR primers. Am still using that brass today, no problems.
My 10 bucks says you had your dies set so the decapper was too low and the collet for the pin was pushing down from the inside and shortening the pockets
Ammo companies don’t make faulty cases then primers to match

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I bought a Frankfort but have yet to use it. I plan on loading a bunch later this winter.

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Originally Posted by Castle_Rock
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I use cutters of various types, and when you don't overdo it they work fine.

Also used a cutter on a PILE of .17 Hornet brass when Hornady first came out with the round. For some reason quite a bit of the factory ammo had very shallow primer pockets, loaded with very "shallow" primers. (Where they got the primers I don't know.) Set up a small-primer uniforming tool in a drill motor, and deepened something 250-300 primer pockets so I could use "normal" SR primers. Am still using that brass today, no problems.
My 10 bucks says you had your dies set so the decapper was too low and the collet for the pin was pushing down from the inside and shortening the pockets
Ammo companies don’t make faulty cases then primers to match

You don't know what you're talking about. The pockets were so shallow conventional SR primers didn't even come close to seating, with around 1/4 of their height standing above the case head. A number of other people encountered the same thing with some early .17 HH brass.

If you do a little Googling, you'll find this was a common problem with the early .17 HH brass. I just did some of this, and along with confirming it happened a lot, four the "short" primers were made by Fiocchi. (Hornady doesn't make primers.)

Plus, I got other batches of ammo around the same time that did NOT have the problem--and the decapping rod in my die was set exactly the same way.


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I've run into pockets on the shallow end in new Hornady 308 Winchester match brass. I've also had a few bricks of Remington 9 1/2 primers on the tall side of the specs. A newbie without the right tools might have made a mess out of that combination. grin

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I use the LE Wilson reamer setup, for .223 and .30-06 milsurp brass. Slow as the dickens but very precise, and never an issue. I gotta stop buying that kind of brass....


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Originally Posted by Jason280
Quote
If not going to reload them again I'd use the cutter.

This is just crazy.

I've reloaded a bunch of military 5.56 and .308 brass, and use a crimp reamer exclusively. They are just as fast as a Dillon, considerably cheaper, and require no setup or adjustment when using different head stamps. I set mine up in an RCBS trim center, and alternate the reamer with a primer pocket uniforming tool...never had an issue.

eta: I've done thousands upon thousands this way, and will never go back to swaging.
^^^^^^^
This.Have reloaded Lake City many many times for my AR`s.


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I hate to bust some myths, but I have done the cheap route for years without all the drama that many post about.

To start with, when I bought my first 223 over 30 years ago, I bought fired military brass from various sources and started with that. I put a 3/8 inch drill that I put in the vice and put a drill bit in it and put it on lock with the drill running full time. I just took each brass and put the primer pocket on the drill and cut the rim off the primer pocket and reloaded them.

When I bought a 222, I couldn't afford new brass, so I sized and cut down some of the 223 military brass to make 222 brass out of it.

30+ years later, I have been shooting these cases and reloading them dozens of times without trimming the cases and worrying about all the problems that people seem to experience when they reload.

With all of this cost and time saving I have done with these cases and cartridges, I still hit what I am shooting at with deadly regularity, making it unnecessary to worry about all the minor nuances of reloading.

I have also been using H335 powder with no pressure spikes regardless of temperature...




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I would like to thank everybody for their answers. and the names of the most respected people to my opinion on here seems to be the same answer cut is just fine as long as you don't get to doing something stupid. which brings up another question how many have actually used go and no go gauges on your primer pockets? while doing some other internet research on this subject I discovered some tools to actually tighten primer pocket switch I've not yet formed an opinion on this if it's good or bad but I was surprised. a side note any reconditioned maybe I should say professionally reconditioned milk brass I have ever bought or seen the primer pockets were cut that's one thing that led to my question.
another very specific question for those who have the Hornady primer pocket reamer is it designed to bottom out on the primer pocket to keep all your bevels equal? I took some sacrificial pieces and did this with they look good but the bevel does seem to be extreme..

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Originally Posted by Castle_Rock
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I use cutters of various types, and when you don't overdo it they work fine.

Also used a cutter on a PILE of .17 Hornet brass when Hornady first came out with the round. For some reason quite a bit of the factory ammo had very shallow primer pockets, loaded with very "shallow" primers. (Where they got the primers I don't know.) Set up a small-primer uniforming tool in a drill motor, and deepened something 250-300 primer pockets so I could use "normal" SR primers. Am still using that brass today, no problems.
My 10 bucks says you had your dies set so the decapper was too low and the collet for the pin was pushing down from the inside and shortening the pockets
Ammo companies don’t make faulty cases then primers to match



My 10 bucks says this is a dumb post



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Originally Posted by ldholton
another very specific question for those who have the Hornady primer pocket reamer is it designed to bottom out on the primer pocket to keep all your bevels equal? I took some sacrificial pieces and did this with they look good but the bevel does seem to be extreme..

Yes, but as I stated above, in my experience, it over chamfers the pocket and I can definitely feel reduced resistance when seating a primer when compared to my swaged and lightly chamfered brass.



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I have a Country Gunsmith bench mounted large primer swager that I got in 92. It works excellently designed to give the tiniest bevel to get your primers started. Every round is moved to the appropriate primer pocket uniformer on my RCBS case prep machine. I have been using this system since 92 and haven't had a loose or gas escaped primer yet. I use it on 30-06, 7.62x51, 8mm, 7.65 Arg, 303, 45acp and any other boxer primed surplus brass I can find.


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Originally Posted by jwp475
Originally Posted by Castle_Rock
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I use cutters of various types, and when you don't overdo it they work fine.

Also used a cutter on a PILE of .17 Hornet brass when Hornady first came out with the round. For some reason quite a bit of the factory ammo had very shallow primer pockets, loaded with very "shallow" primers. (Where they got the primers I don't know.) Set up a small-primer uniforming tool in a drill motor, and deepened something 250-300 primer pockets so I could use "normal" SR primers. Am still using that brass today, no problems.
My 10 bucks says you had your dies set so the decapper was too low and the collet for the pin was pushing down from the inside and shortening the pockets
Ammo companies don’t make faulty cases then primers to match



My 10 bucks says this is a dumb post
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Wilson tool in a drill adapter in a drill chucked in a vice. I use a tie wrap to keep it running at the speed I like. It’s way faster than a swage, way faster!!!

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I suspect the grove "weakens" the case far more than cutting the crimp out if you don't overdo it.

NVhntr, no disrespect, I just tried my Hornady primer pocket reamer on some R-P commercial brass, it just barely touched the top of the pocket. Perhaps the big red H doesn't have a very narrow spec?


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Have found it interesting that Castle_Rock has not posted here again after this post about my experience with early .17 Hornady Hornet brass: "My 10 bucks says you had your dies set so the decapper was too low and the collet for the pin was pushing down from the inside and shortening the pockets. Ammo companies don’t make faulty cases then primers to match." I suggested he might Google the problem.

He has been on the Campfire since then, so dunno where his 10 bucks went.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Have found it interesting that Castle_Rock has not posted here again after this post about my experience with early .17 Hornady Hornet brass: "My 10 bucks says you had your dies set so the decapper was too low and the collet for the pin was pushing down from the inside and shortening the pockets. Ammo companies don’t make faulty cases then primers to match." I suggested he might Google the problem.

He has been on the Campfire since then, so dunno where his 10 bucks went.
Mayhap it went to the roundoak manure spreader GoFundMe.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Originally Posted by Castle_Rock
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I use cutters of various types, and when you don't overdo it they work fine.

Also used a cutter on a PILE of .17 Hornet brass when Hornady first came out with the round. For some reason quite a bit of the factory ammo had very shallow primer pockets, loaded with very "shallow" primers. (Where they got the primers I don't know.) Set up a small-primer uniforming tool in a drill motor, and deepened something 250-300 primer pockets so I could use "normal" SR primers. Am still using that brass today, no problems.
My 10 bucks says you had your dies set so the decapper was too low and the collet for the pin was pushing down from the inside and shortening the pockets
Ammo companies don’t make faulty cases then primers to match

You don't know what you're talking about. The pockets were so shallow conventional SR primers didn't even come close to seating, with around 1/4 of their height standing above the case head. A number of other people encountered the same thing with some early .17 HH brass.

If you do a little Googling, you'll find this was a common problem with the early .17 HH brass. I just did some of this, and along with confirming it happened a lot, four the "short" primers were made by Fiocchi. (Hornady doesn't make primers.)

Plus, I got other batches of ammo around the same time that did NOT have the problem--and the decapping rod in my die was set exactly the same way.
I can't imagine applying enough force to the decapper to move that much brass in the head area to not notice something was wrong.

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Originally Posted by Castle_Rock
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I use cutters of various types, and when you don't overdo it they work fine.

Also used a cutter on a PILE of .17 Hornet brass when Hornady first came out with the round. For some reason quite a bit of the factory ammo had very shallow primer pockets, loaded with very "shallow" primers. (Where they got the primers I don't know.) Set up a small-primer uniforming tool in a drill motor, and deepened something 250-300 primer pockets so I could use "normal" SR primers. Am still using that brass today, no problems.
My 10 bucks says you had your dies set so the decapper was too low and the collet for the pin was pushing down from the inside and shortening the pockets
Ammo companies don’t make faulty cases then primers to match
I've got 100 bucks that says you're a moron.


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I have a primer pocket swage kit, and it works so well and fast on military brass, I don't know why anybody would choose another method. Is there a reason to cut them?

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I believe it's in the Scofield Bible where there's an account of Jesus admonishing his apostles for wasting their time with the various primer pocket swagers available at the time.

It's been a while since I read it, but I took it to heart after pissing away a bunch of time with a couple different swagers, and ended up having to remove some brass anyway. Now, I chuck up a cutter and go.

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https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012921650

Rcbs makes this crimp cutter for the Trim Mate that removes the crimp and only the crimp.
Just chuck it in a small drill and go to town on them.

It can't take too much off because the shoulder hits up against the case head and can't go any deeper in the pocket


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Originally Posted by Kenlguy
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012921650

Rcbs makes this crimp cutter for the Trim Mate that removes the crimp and only the crimp.
Just chuck it in a small drill and go to town on them.

It can't take too much off because the shoulder hits up against the case head and can't go any deeper in the pocket
I think it's the best one out there. it's the one I went after and my local dealer was out so I bought a Hornady version to cut this sample I'm working on now. I think the Hornady does fine but may bevel a bit more than necessary. Also ordered some go and no go gauges for primer pockets to help set up my swagger maybe I'm over working it and don't need to so much. my gauges are thanks for supposed to be here Monday.

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Has anyone tried the Lee Ram Swage here?

https://leeprecision.com/ram-swage.html


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Originally Posted by Kenlguy
https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1012921650

Rcbs makes this crimp cutter for the Trim Mate that removes the crimp and only the crimp.
Just chuck it in a small drill and go to town on them.

It can't take too much off because the shoulder hits up against the case head and can't go any deeper in the pocket
It's what I use and it's easy peasy.


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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
Have found it interesting that Castle_Rock has not posted here again after this post about my experience with early .17 Hornady Hornet brass: "My 10 bucks says you had your dies set so the decapper was too low and the collet for the pin was pushing down from the inside and shortening the pockets. Ammo companies don’t make faulty cases then primers to match." I suggested he might Google the problem.

He has been on the Campfire since then, so dunno where his 10 bucks went.
I haven’t looked at this post since I posted
I am not ashamed to admit being wrong, and obviously in this case I am

What prompted me to say the deprimer was damaging the cases was a friend of mine doing exactly that

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OK.


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