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I know this is been discussed a few times most generally most people will say swag them never cut material out of the primer pocket. now I'm referring to military crimps and getting rid of them.
basically is there any tests that have ever been done to confirm that swagging is actually better and stronger for the primer pockets than cutting the crimp?
the last couple weeks I've swagged about 3,000. and got probably 10 or 12,000 to go. cutting them is much easier which is leading to my question.

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This is where the dillon would be handy, fast and perfect. If not going to reload them again I'd use the cutter.

Last edited by DANNYL; 11/26/22.
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Seen it firsthand to many times never remove the crimp with a cutter. Swage the pocket first, then a light chamfer to remove the burr that swaging leaves. If you cut the crimp out till you can seat a primer you will only have half the pocket depth for primer support left. That's totally retarded you don't need the primer cup expanding out in the cut area....mb


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Even when I swage them, I provide a light cut. Otherwise, I get the occasional primer that doesn't fit.


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Using the right cutter, done right works just fine.

Cutting with a neck deburring tool is not using the right tool.

Nuff said.

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I have used the Dillon on thousands. Taking your time setting up the dillon, swedge a few, seat primers on the spot with a hand too, adjust as necessary. We have never had a problem with this method.

Problem occurs when you do not try and seat primers during the process.

Also part of the process, grab a hand full at a time, case heads up. Now check for off center flash holes...some lot# have a Lot of off center flash holes also burrs inside the case were the flash hole was punched.

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Originally Posted by Magnum_Bob
Seen it firsthand to many times never remove the crimp with a cutter. Swage the pocket first, then a light chamfer to remove the burr that swaging leaves. If you cut the crimp out till you can seat a primer you will only have half the pocket depth for primer support left. That's totally retarded you don't need the primer cup expanding out in the cut area....mb
This ^^

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The Hornady tool mentioned in that article removes crimps just fine but doesn't remove enough material to weaken the case. I can see how a chamfer tool could cause a problem though.


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Quote
If not going to reload them again I'd use the cutter.

This is just crazy.

I've reloaded a bunch of military 5.56 and .308 brass, and use a crimp reamer exclusively. They are just as fast as a Dillon, considerably cheaper, and require no setup or adjustment when using different head stamps. I set mine up in an RCBS trim center, and alternate the reamer with a primer pocket uniforming tool...never had an issue.

eta: I've done thousands upon thousands this way, and will never go back to swaging.

Last edited by Jason280; 11/26/22.
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I've used the Hornady cutter, the RCBS press mounted swager, and the Dillon swager. The Hornady is the fastest but chamfers the pocket more than required. The Dillon works fine but doesn't provide any chamfer at all to the pocket. The RCBS is junk and not worth the time involved. Presently I use the Dillon and follow with a slight chamfer from a deburring tool.


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I use cutters of various types, and when you don't overdo it they work fine.

Also used a cutter on a PILE of .17 Hornet brass when Hornady first came out with the round. For some reason quite a bit of the factory ammo had very shallow primer pockets, loaded with very "shallow" primers. (Where they got the primers I don't know.) Set up a small-primer uniforming tool in a drill motor, and deepened something 250-300 primer pockets so I could use "normal" SR primers. Am still using that brass today, no problems.


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Speaking of Hornady brass with shallow primer pockets.... Over the summer I was reloading for my buddies 300 PRC. Once fired Hornady factory ammo that he bought just to have some brass. Did my usual primer pocket ritual with the Hornady Case Prep Trio. A powered gizmo with primer pocket uniformer and chamfer & deburr stations. I've been uniforming primer pockets at least since the 1990's and over the years have stopped fretting about high primers because the uniforming tools ream out the bottom of the pocket so well I don't even worry about it anymore. I just clean it up until the bottom of the pocket is shiny and I don't want to make it too deep. Turns out that brass had shallow pockets, primers were slightly high, but it still chambered & fired. Did some rough measurements but didn't write it down, the pockets were a tiny bit shallow. Got out my old piece of window glass that I formerly used to stand rounds on to check for high primers. Hadn't used it in years but sometimes those good old fashioned methods are still worthwhile and prudent. Live & learn.

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Originally Posted by Jason280
Quote
If not going to reload them again I'd use the cutter.

This is just crazy.

I've reloaded a bunch of military 5.56 and .308 brass, and use a crimp reamer exclusively. They are just as fast as a Dillon, considerably cheaper, and require no setup or adjustment when using different head stamps. I set mine up in an RCBS trim center, and alternate the reamer with a primer pocket uniforming tool...never had an issue.

eta: I've done thousands upon thousands this way, and will never go back to swaging.


What Jason said x100 👍😎

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Chuck the Hornady cutter in your cordless drill and get some high volume going.... wink


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My Lyman VLD chamfer tool takes out the crimp perfectly on LC 223 brass. The nose bottoms out just as you get the right amount of chamfer.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I use cutters of various types, and when you don't overdo it they work fine.

Also used a cutter on a PILE of .17 Hornet brass when Hornady first came out with the round. For some reason quite a bit of the factory ammo had very shallow primer pockets, loaded with very "shallow" primers. (Where they got the primers I don't know.) Set up a small-primer uniforming tool in a drill motor, and deepened something 250-300 primer pockets so I could use "normal" SR primers. Am still using that brass today, no problems.
My 10 bucks says you had your dies set so the decapper was too low and the collet for the pin was pushing down from the inside and shortening the pockets
Ammo companies don’t make faulty cases then primers to match

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I bought a Frankfort but have yet to use it. I plan on loading a bunch later this winter.

Last edited by pullit; 11/28/22.

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Originally Posted by Castle_Rock
Originally Posted by Mule Deer
I use cutters of various types, and when you don't overdo it they work fine.

Also used a cutter on a PILE of .17 Hornet brass when Hornady first came out with the round. For some reason quite a bit of the factory ammo had very shallow primer pockets, loaded with very "shallow" primers. (Where they got the primers I don't know.) Set up a small-primer uniforming tool in a drill motor, and deepened something 250-300 primer pockets so I could use "normal" SR primers. Am still using that brass today, no problems.
My 10 bucks says you had your dies set so the decapper was too low and the collet for the pin was pushing down from the inside and shortening the pockets
Ammo companies don’t make faulty cases then primers to match

You don't know what you're talking about. The pockets were so shallow conventional SR primers didn't even come close to seating, with around 1/4 of their height standing above the case head. A number of other people encountered the same thing with some early .17 HH brass.

If you do a little Googling, you'll find this was a common problem with the early .17 HH brass. I just did some of this, and along with confirming it happened a lot, four the "short" primers were made by Fiocchi. (Hornady doesn't make primers.)

Plus, I got other batches of ammo around the same time that did NOT have the problem--and the decapping rod in my die was set exactly the same way.


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I've run into pockets on the shallow end in new Hornady 308 Winchester match brass. I've also had a few bricks of Remington 9 1/2 primers on the tall side of the specs. A newbie without the right tools might have made a mess out of that combination. grin

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