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Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 9,189 |
Start with Virgin Brass and drive a positive headspaced false shoulder,out of the gate. From there,never move more brass than you have to. Hint............. This is pretty much my mantra. But I have purchased a lot of once-fired brass that I've annealed and meticulously sized as little as possible. I also separate ammo by the gun for which it's loaded. I prefer neck sizing in collet dies, as it reduces the need to trim cases. I don't load any belted-cases anymore, but I never had an issue with them. The belt never caused any problems for me.
I belong on eroding granite, among the pines.
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 661
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 661 |
BSA I have the Hornady bullet comparator set. If the headstamp bushings will fit the anvil, I can pick those up as well.
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,805
Campfire 'Bwana
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Campfire 'Bwana
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 44,805 |
It does make me laugh when folks piss and moan about a belt. It’s really nonexistent to me. My bitch with belted cartridges isn't the belt per se, but the amount of slop that is often present in the fit of new brass to chamber even when both chamber and brass are within specification. Some guys are always going to bitch about something. Again, I've never had any issues and I've shot and owned a chit ton of belted magnum rifles. You better just stick to your tried and true 308 mathman.. Ditch the attitude. I was successfully loading belted magnums forty years ago.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,274
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,274 |
The Virgin forming shot,is the one which compromises brass the most. I want total and finite control of headspace,from the first shot to the last,if only for safety,brass life and accuracy/precision. Hint. BSA sucks a mean ass,as she GoogleFu's madly for a FIRST Clue,but she just can't ever connect a single fhuqking dot,by herself. Ask her how the 108's are doing? Hint. ![[Linked Image from imagizer.imageshack.com]](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1280x1024q90/924/Syr3rL.png) Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: May 2015
Posts: 708
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 708 |
This what they be talkin' about. ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/qeC59bD.jpg)
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Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 788
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 788 |
Some of my belted mag rifles have acceptable (to me) base to shoulder distance such that brass life does not suffer. Both my M700 .300 Roys are like that. 10 plus reloads easy-peasy. And that's with FL sizing to decent shellholder bump.
My .300 Win 700KSS and Dad's MkV .300 Roy are another matter. So I do the faux shoulder on those - with virgin brass - as Stick and Jordan Smith describe.
Why virgin brass? Cuz if the base to shoulder is sufficiently excessive cases are ruined on the first firing. There is no way to rehab such cases.
To create the faux shoulder on my .300s I run necks over a .338 WM expander, then through the .300 sizer backed off. Incrementally screw the die down till cases can be chambered with effort (not a hammer). After the first few firings, and if needed, I adjust the die further. Sometimes don't need to.
BTW, this issue (and the utility of a faux shoulder) is not exclusive to belted cartridges. Think .303 Enfields.
Also, some percentage of LC bulk brass purchases derives from max-spec 7.62x51 M240 chambers. As far as I'm concerned these pieces are ruined, so I ID and cull. ID them using a Wilson case gauge.....can do it by feel while watching the boob toob.
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,126
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 8,126 |
This what they be talkin' about. Yep - my .264 Win thinks it's a 7mm RM based on the headstamps that enter the chamber.
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,195
Campfire Regular
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Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,195 |
BSA I have the Hornady bullet comparator set. If the headstamp bushings will fit the anvil, I can pick those up as well. The headspace bushings will fit the same anvil. BSA appears to be using a 30 caliber bullet comparator bushing in his posted picture for some reason. Better than his trying to measure an air gap by feel though. The Hornady headspace gauges are set to measure at the datum point at mid shoulder. The .420 diameter Headspace gauge is the proper one for your cases. If you have a .40 caliber insert, you will be close.
Too close for irons, switching to scope...
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Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 661
Campfire Regular
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OP
Campfire Regular
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 661 |
BSA I have the Hornady bullet comparator set. If the headstamp bushings will fit the anvil, I can pick those up as well. The headspace bushings will fit the same anvil. BSA appears to be using a 30 caliber bullet comparator bushing in his posted picture for some reason. Better than his trying to measure an air gap by feel though. The Hornady headspace gauges are set to measure at the datum point at mid shoulder. The .420 diameter Headspace gauge is the proper one for your cases. If you have a .40 caliber insert, you will be close. Ok, I'll look in to that.
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,901
Campfire Outfitter
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Campfire Outfitter
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 10,901 |
Just treat it like any other chambering. In step 4), adjust your FL die (I prefer Forster) to bump the shoulder 0.002-0.003”. Done. ^^^^^^^^ This ^^^^^^^ I started loading for belted cartridges in the early ‘80’s, before the internet was around to “make mountains of mole hills” and with assistance from a Lyman manual from the early’70’s. Due to my youth and inexperience, I followed the same procedures as I had the previous 15 or so years with non-belted cases! In spite of myself, I managed to get my old Model 70 .375 H&H to grant me a few sub 3/4” 5 shot groups @ 100 yards…..with one group going under 1/2”! memtb
Last edited by memtb; 11/29/22.
You should not use a rifle that will kill an animal when everything goes right; you should use one that will do the job when everything goes wrong." -Bob Hagel
“I’d like to be a good rifleman…..but, I prefer to be a good hunter”! memtb 2024
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,274
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,274 |
It is fascinatingly fhuqking HILARIOUS,that gross ineptitude and being a VERY sllooowwwwwww "learner",are "heralded" as "virtues". Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 3,730
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 3,730 |
If I had known that a belted case was different I might never have gotten my 300 wm in 1980. People do realize that even a 12.00 dollar Lee loader works. Right? Edk
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,274
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,274 |
Biden "works" too,for Dumb Fhuqks. You Drooling CLUELESS Fhuqks are a HOOT! Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 3,511
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 3,511 |
Biden did whup corn pop....
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 3,511
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 3,511 |
Just treat it like any other chambering. In step 4), adjust your FL die (I prefer Forster) to bump the shoulder 0.002-0.003”. Done. Same here. Set the die for the gun you wanna reload for and it’s a one time deal most of the time. 2-3 thou is great fit and you’ll likely never wear the brass out unless you’re hammering the heck out of it or you never anneal. Good post scotty. I PFL using just run of the mill RCBS dies. Accuracy/precision is good enough for me: ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/fou90I8.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/mO9KOy7.jpg) ![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/j3lQUYS.jpg) 7mm RM brass shown after sizing. Figured that would be the best representation for the op, since he's asking about that cartridge. Be sure to set your die with brass that has been fireformed to your chamber. I also have 2 7mm rem mags, but they are both Winchester model 70 classics and they look like the chambers have been cut with the same reamer. Got lucky on that one!!! The shoulder bump is the key (.002-.003" is about perfect). I treat all of my belted mag brass just like any other brass. It shoots just the same as standard non belted stuff and feeds excellent. Never an issue.. Some guys want to make newbies think the belt is a hinderance, but that shows their lack of knowledge and experience. You sure are getting sooty necks....
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,297
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,297 |
It does make me laugh when folks piss and moan about a belt. It’s really nonexistent to me. My bitch with belted cartridges isn't the belt per se, but the amount of slop that is often present in the fit of new brass to chamber even when both chamber and brass are within specification. I agree, it is all over the map at times. My issue pretty much went away when I got the expander mandrel set from 22/416 caliber. Now it’s so easy just to neck up one caliber and size if to fit from the get go. I pretty much do it with everything larger than 223 nowadays. I feel like it saves me money since Brass with somewhat decent annealing seems to last forever.
Semper Fi
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 3,511
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 3,511 |
This what they be talkin' about. Looks like you have two shoulders....
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Joined: May 2021
Posts: 3,511
Campfire Tracker
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Campfire Tracker
Joined: May 2021
Posts: 3,511 |
I shot a 7mm mag for years stoked full tilt....neck sized only without any issues. The primer pockets will be the first thing to go.
After about 3 loadings I just pitched the brass.
The belted magnums head space on the belt....why the need to bump the shoulder ?
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,274
Campfire Kahuna
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Campfire Kahuna
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 58,274 |
You Fhuqktards REALLY should be taking notes and applying same. Hint.
Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............
Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,297
Campfire Ranger
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Campfire Ranger
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 15,297 |
If you’re blasting primer pockets in 3 firings shoulder bumping ain’t for you.
Semper Fi
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