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Every power generation method produces some environmental impact. In order to produce power, we have destroyed salmon runs and flooded prime big game habitat, as well as farmland. We have removed mountains and covered the landscape with windmills, panels and reactors. Advocates of each type of power generation just pretend the negative consequences don't exist. The salmon can spawn in some other stream, radioactivity is nothing to worry about, elk can winter elsewhere, geese can learn to dodge windmills, desert creatures appreciate the shade from solar panels.
The truth is, there are so many of us and we have such a hunger for energy, we have to be a little creative to provide ourselves with said energy. Either that, or we need to reduce our requirements for heating and cooling our homes, our workplaces, or our stores. Maybe we have to decide it is wasteful to light up cities for entertainment or spray water in the air in the desert just to see it splash. We don't have to build 4500 sq ft houses just to say, "Look at me!". If we choose to keep living the way we are, there will always be some consequences. GD

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My wife is adamantly opposed to wind production.


Claims mine stinks!


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Originally Posted by Dillonbuck
My wife is adamantly opposed to wind production.


Claims mine stinks!

You need to pipe that into a tank for use as fuel.

Considering the source, I’d say it’s truly a “fossil fuel”, you old fossil!


What fresh Hell is this?
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It takes a huge amount of fossil fuel to build, maintain, store the energy, and then dispose of windmills.

The wind resource in Seattle is the most terrible. Half the energy for the year is during just 24 hours of wind storms.
But almost all the time there is worthless low wind.

Ideal would be a 15 mph wind available 24/7/365
Seattle is as far from ideal as it gets.

I was almost killed while trying to pass a windmill spar on highway 200 just West of Jordan MT.
When I gave up on passing and put on brakes because of oncoming traffic, the truck put on the brakes too.

WIndmills do not just kill eagles... they can kill people too.


There is nothing noble in being superior to your fellow man; true nobility is being superior to your former self. -Ernest Hemingway
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Originally Posted by BobMt
Originally Posted by lotech
If government incentives stopped, you'd never see another windmill.



if .gov incentives ever stopped there would be a lot of things you would never see again....bob

It would be a sight to see.

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Originally Posted by shootbrownelk
All the windchargers around here are shut down, we've had 40mph sustained wind and 60+ gusts for the last few days. Green ain't so great unless conditions are perfect. I say we need Nuke and Coal plants and plenty of them. We have plenty of uranium and coal right here. Let's take advantage of it.

I'm not arguing the high-wind shut downs, I see it in ND/SD almost daily that some aren't turning, and in high wind most if not all are sitting still. It's surprising that they haven't figure out 2 things:

1. How to "feather" the vanes in order to still make power in high winds without so much flex as to damage/over-stress the vanes.

2. How to proportionally vary the turbines to produce more energy during high winds. Something along the lines of a transmission or CVT.


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Originally Posted by horse1
Originally Posted by shootbrownelk
All the windchargers around here are shut down, we've had 40mph sustained wind and 60+ gusts for the last few days. Green ain't so great unless conditions are perfect. I say we need Nuke and Coal plants and plenty of them. We have plenty of uranium and coal right here. Let's take advantage of it.

I'm not arguing the high-wind shut downs, I see it in ND/SD almost daily that some aren't turning, and in high wind most if not all are sitting still. It's surprising that they haven't figure out 2 things:

1. How to "feather" the vanes in order to still make power in high winds without so much flex as to damage/over-stress the vanes.

2. How to proportionally vary the turbines to produce more energy during high winds. Something along the lines of a transmission or CVT.

Actually, they do all that now but the sheer size of these machines makes them susceptible to damage beyond certain wind speeds and sustained operation. And no matter how hard you want to wish it to be so, light winds simply can't turn those huge blades sufficiently to produce power. Those generators take a lot of energy just to turn the shafts on them to produce electricity. They aren't static...


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I heard an interesting story from a guy I know who works on the wind farms around here. Apparently, a lot of the wind farms are privately owned by investors. However, there is a hierarchy to when power sources are tapped - Water generated and public generation is first tier, Nuclear is second tier, and wind is down the list a bit... So, when power requirements are low, the wind farms sit idle and the investors aren't making any money on their investment. So, once the federal subsidies started to come down, production and delivery prices started to go up, and energy policies reduced the need during certain parts of the year- the wind farms aren't looking quite as attractive as an investment these days. Add in the fact they don't work well in very cold or very hot weather and only have a life span of around 10-15 years and I see an industry that may not have a bright future....


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Originally Posted by Clarkm
It takes a huge amount of fossil fuel to build, maintain, store the energy, and then dispose of windmills.

The wind resource in Seattle is the most terrible. Half the energy for the year is during just 24 hours of wind storms.
But almost all the time there is worthless low wind.

Ideal would be a 15 mph wind available 24/7/365
Seattle is as far from ideal as it gets.

I was almost killed while trying to pass a windmill spar on highway 200 just West of Jordan MT.
When I gave up on passing and put on brakes because of oncoming traffic, the truck put on the brakes too.

WIndmills do not just kill eagles... they can kill people too.

You should stay in your house.


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Originally Posted by Sheister
I heard an interesting story from a guy I know who works on the wind farms around here. Apparently, a lot of the wind farms are privately owned by investors. However, there is a hierarchy to when power sources are tapped - Water generated and public generation is first tier, Nuclear is second tier, and wind is down the list a bit... So, when power requirements are low, the wind farms sit idle and the investors aren't making any money on their investment. So, once the federal subsidies started to come down, production and delivery prices started to go up, and energy policies reduced the need during certain parts of the year- the wind farms aren't looking quite as attractive as an investment these days. Add in the fact they don't work well in very cold or very hot weather and only have a life span of around 10-15 years and I see an industry that may not have a bright future....
Not the way the PBA does things. The Bonneville Power Admin is a federal agency that controls all the power in the PNW. Some years ago, we had a huge spring runoff. The Snake and Columbia Rivers were running full and the dams were producing more than the grid could handle. They had to shut down the windmills because there was no place to put the power. In any other industry, when you over produce, you shut down, lay off, and ride it out until your surplus inventory is down and the market is back up, living on your savings. Not so with the BPA. When that happened, they shut down the windmills but paid the windmill owners anyway for power they weren't producing.


“In a time of deceit telling the truth is a revolutionary act.”
― George Orwell

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That's a good example of government waste Rock Chuck. Probably a line item in a contract allowed that to happen.

Not a windmill example, but. A number of years ago in WI an energy producer applied to the PSC for a rate increase. Reason? The energy company stock needed to provide larger financial returns to their shareholders, make the stock more attractive.

Greed!


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The most disgusting thing about wind farms is this:

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

[Linked Image from i.postimg.cc]

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Originally Posted by BuckHaggard
Originally Posted by BobMt
Originally Posted by lotech
If government incentives stopped, you'd never see another windmill.



if .gov incentives ever stopped there would be a lot of things you would never see again....bob

It would be a sight to see.

^^^^This^^^^

A wind generator erector contractor told me they make more money taking them down than putting them up! ....and they did both!

Between "blade sweep", operational space and maintenance, a wind generator occupies 15 acres.
With today's modern drilling technology, you can produce several wells on a 2 to 4 acre site!

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Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Well...we sure beat the Californians to death over their "NIMBY" attitudes didn't we?



Wonder how many open pit coal mines allow hunting?


Originally Posted by Mr_TooDogs
Why Reclaimed Coal Mines Make the Ultimate Deer Habitat https://www.realtree.com/deer-hunti...oal-mines-make-the-ultimate-deer-habitat


for some reason I think Jim is speaking of a different critter than from your article

Quote
Did You Know Reclaimed Surface Mines Are Good for Whitetails?

Jim mentioned "open pit" mines, which look nothing like the ones pictured in your article. It's a lot harder to reclaim one of the ones in this link,

https://duckduckgo.com/?t=ffsb&q=open+pit+coal+mine&iax=images&ia=images

than it would be to reclaim a typical Appalachian surface removal mine.


The desert is a true treasure for him who seeks refuge from men and the evil of men.
In it is contentment
In it is death and all you seek
(Quoted from "The Bleeding of the Stone" Ibrahim Al-Koni)

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Originally Posted by Jim_Conrad
Originally Posted by Clarkm
In 1982 I connected an Anemometer to a Pet Computer and prospected for a wind power site.
My wife wrote the software.
I bought a prop with a 15:1 wind/tip speed ratio.
The guy who sold me the anemometer went on to be the project engineer at the Altamont wind farm in CA.

I came to the conclusion that wind power was not viable.
The wind has two big problems:
1) the wind can blow not hard enough
2) the wind can blow too hard

The energy available from wind is proportional to the wind speed cubed.
That shrinks too fast with low wind speed.
That blows up too fast with high wind speed. [machine must be shut down in high wind]


Gosh.....you should tell all the successful wind farms your info!

You must be getting a check from the wind energy company. A simple economic analysis proves they aren’t viable without the government subsidies they get. I have a couple wind energy customers and they’ll tell you straight up.


Yours in Liberty,

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Originally Posted by Ben_Lurkin
You must be getting a check from the wind energy company. A simple economic analysis proves they aren’t viable without the government subsidies they get. I have a couple wind energy customers and they’ll tell you straight up.

I met an environmental engineer in CA with no technical knowledge about power, yet he was partnered in some giant power plant construction.
I met a group of environment engineers in WA. Good looking young women smoking pot and virtue signalling being liberal.


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Originally Posted by Clarkm
Originally Posted by Ben_Lurkin
You must be getting a check from the wind energy company. A simple economic analysis proves they aren’t viable without the government subsidies they get. I have a couple wind energy customers and they’ll tell you straight up.

I met an environmental engineer in CA with no technical knowledge about power, yet he was partnered in some giant power plant construction.
I met a group of environment engineers in WA. Good looking young women smoking pot and virtue signalling being liberal.

Reminds me of college when there was a regional engineering competition that Berkley attended with us. Those girls were a lot of fun to party with back in the early 90’s. I didn’t care about their brains.


Yours in Liberty,

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To my knowledge, the fiberglass and composite components can't be recycled and end up in landfills. The 750 cu. yards of concrete in the ground , certainly must effect the spin of the earth , more so than the wind generated effects the atmosphere! Climate change is a beech! grin

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I am somewhat loathe to ring in here, as it will surely be met by tantrums, but I see alternative energy use as a good thing. I don't celebrate its shortcomings, of which there are many. At the same time the left's wholesale demonization of fossil fuel is plain damn dumb.

Folks at some point in the history of earth, we will deplete it of its fossil fuel. We need to figure out what we will do before that day arrives. If we don't come up with reasonable alternatives, the country that has the last remaining oil will be the last remaining country. If it comes to pass that some use of wind power as an alternative energy source isn't viable, maybe it's best that we figure it out now.

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Originally Posted by PaulBarnard
I am somewhat loathe to ring in here, as it will surely be met by tantrums, but I see alternative energy use as a good thing. I don't celebrate its shortcomings, of which there are many. At the same time the left's wholesale demonization of fossil fuel is plain damn dumb.

Folks at some point in the history of earth, we will deplete it of its fossil fuel. We need to figure out what we will do before that day arrives. If we don't come up with reasonable alternatives, the country that has the last remaining oil will be the last remaining country. If it comes to pass that some use of wind power as an alternative energy source isn't viable, maybe it's best that we figure it out now.


Fűck you and your making a point with a reasonable and thought out post.


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