Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Winchester Collectors Pre-64's Model 70's value?

I have two pre-64's (early 50's) that I believe, belong to each other. One is mint other than it has an added muzzle break and has the chamber "AI'd". It's a 375 H&H AI. The other is in very good condition 300 H&H that looks to me to be re-blued, otherwise excellent. They both have quick release Leupold bases and rings. They would come with maybe 100 brass each and dies. The stocks look pristine. The metal too, other than the re-blue on the 300. The triggers have been lightened a bit by someone who knew what they were doing. I have a third scope with quick release rings that would go with these rifles. The scopes are all ~ $300+ Leupolds.

I bought these in preparation of an anticipated Africa Safari. I suspect that won't happen due to my age now. I'd like to sell all as a package deal. I'd include pictures but like I said there's no flaws that I can see in these rifles. Would $4,000 be too high or $3,000 without the scopes?

With the modifications listed, you are in the $2,500.00 for the pair range.

The scopes don't add any value to me, unless they are older Vari-X IIc or silver. Those sell like hotcakes. $3,000 without the scopes would probably be fair. If the stocks have not been messed with (recoil pads added) and are in as good of shape as you say, that adds value. Keep in mind the 300 will have a steel butt plate and the 375 came with a winchester marked red recoil pad.
Brass is a big plus too, but the dies can be a subjective matter. I would be more inclined to sell all the extras separately. You'll get more money that way. The re-bluing on the 300H&H hurts the collector value and of course the brake on the 375 and AI's chamber hurts that value. Pictures are nice, but your lackluster description paints a faint picture. You say these are in "mint" condition, but they do have some modifications. To give one example of value, I had a pre war clover leaf tang 375H&h that was rechambered to 375 WBY. Other than that, it was 100% original. That rifle sold for $1,600.00 last year. It was very clean, as you describe yours. Also keep in mind some guys say their stuff is "mint", and then we later find out they are not. Not even close. That is why we sometimes ask for pictures. With this being said, the 375's and 300's still hold their own when it comes to gun values. I'd suggest doing some research. The regular places we suggest like gunsinternational and completed sales on gun broker help a lot. If you can find a rifle similar to yours. If you post some pics here, you may get someone wanting one of the 2 rifles, but likely not both..

Toss a few pics up Bugger. You may even get a sale out of the 5 minutes to post a few nice pictures.

Ackley Improved chamber, muzzle brake and reblue do nothing to enhance the value, definately shooter grade guns rather than ones with any collector value. Difficult to assess value without pictures.

Bugger you don’t have a spare stock for that 375? I have a nice shootable ‘52 model and would love something like a McMillan Express stock or a pretty pristine factory stock, but they appear to be unobtanium at the moment.

Good luck with your sale.

Just adding the redundant theme... Photos! Not a matter of your word. A matter of you presenting it to some folks here for 'pro' assessments and omitting the best tools. Example of words not being clear. I 'presume the scope mounts are top mounts in factory holes. If side mounts... or non-factory 'messed with', another story. The cliff's surrounding a truly collectible pre 64 Model 70 are steep without embellishment such as value-adding chambering. Where a rifle seems particularly desirable, finding it isn't a much harder fall from original lofty values ascribed.
I'd not wish to value such without good pix!
The clothes doth make the man & the pix doth make the gun!
Good luck!
Best!
John

Thanks for the replies/help. A few comments:


I will put up pictures. I think you’ll agree with me that these are nice looking rifles. They shoot quite accurately too. I’ll post some groups.

I know they are not what a collector might want due to the modifications I mentioned.

The scopes are old Leupolds. I would likely separate them though, due to your comments. The mounts are on top of the receivers - I thought the quick release mounts only came that way. The 300 has the original butt plate. I’ll look at the 375’s - don’t remember.

I thought that these two rifles with interchangeable scopes plus an extra ready to go would travel great together to Africa. (That’s what my plan was.) If they were collector grade they probably wouldn’t make the trip. Thanks again, pictures coming.

Bugger

Here's pictures of the 375:

Here's pictures of the 300:

I have not done a load development with these rifles: Here's one load the 300 liked:
300 H&H, Winchester Pre-64 70, 168 grain Nosler E-tip, 215 primers, 67 grains IMR4350, 0.81 MOA
I only shot one group it seems with the 375 and it was with Iron sights:
375 H&H AI, Winchester Pre-64 70, 300 rn Hornady, 85 grains IMR4350, iron sights at 100 Meters, 2.54 MOA

The 300 looks pretty good Bugger. Missing a front sight hood but other than that, it looks quite nice. If that was the refinished one, from the pics you sent, it looks very well done.

For reference I gave 2k for a 300 just about like yours. Mine wasn’t refinished but stashed away for a lot of years without use. I’d say that would put your value in the 1250-1500 range. Still a touch hard to assess using my phone to look.

The 375 on the other hand has a bunch of mods, brake, improved chamber, cut stock. I would hate to put a number on it but if it were me buying I wouldn’t feeling like reaching above a 1000 myself. Not knocking the rifle just where my mind sits when I judge what I see for sale and what you’ve shown.

They are a fine pair of hunting rifles though.

They were definitely a very good package for Africa. If you could find someone heading that way and could sell the whole package to him you might get close to $4,000 (very, very high side). The Leupold QR mounts, Leupold scopes and Win 70's are a bit fussy when it comes to scope mounting / eye relief, etc.

Most likely you will need to sell them separately and probably better off selling the scopes separate from the guns. More potential buyers. A guy with a nice 300 H&H that has a pad might buy your gun for the stock and then sell the lesser gun (reblued) with the pad added stock. Pics would show conditions and eras. If they are truly early 50's guns and the stocks are not messed with, that will help the sale.

I took two pre 64 Win 70's to Africa myself, a 1956 in 375 H&H with a Decelator pad and dual steel cross bolts, and a 1955 Featherweight in 30-06. Both had Leipold QRW mounts and Leupold scopes. If I went again I would just take a 375 H&H and have less to keep track of.

You have a couple of great hunting rifles but I hate brakes! A 375 H&H isn't that rough to start with. The PH in Africa will hate your braked 375 H&H as they are more likely to add a suppressor to guns than brakes. Brakes are just miserable for bystanders, i.e. PH, Guides, Observers, etc. They are no picnic for the shooter either.

ETA: Whoa!!! I see the pics. $2500 tops for the guns. Nothing collectible left. Both are reblued and both stocks are refinished; the 375 has an amateur added recoil cross bolt. The scopes are what you can get for a good used Leupold on top of that.

I would take the brake off as suggested and I’ve found that suppressors reduce recoil as well as brakes. I too don’t like brakes. But I might work up loads with it on if I were to keep it.

I don’t see a cut stock on the 375. But you probably know more than me.

At any rate, I appreciate your review. It seems I buy high and sell low a lot.

I sure like the sight on the 375...hard to tell where you come in at on these. Might put them on GB but I wonder if taking them to a gun show might do better with more control. Hard to say. I can't see either being less than a grand but I can't see either being 1500 either. Maybe I'm wrong.

Keep in mind Scotty, that these receivers still demand a premium. Still around $1,000.00, with matching bolt and bottom metal. I really like the H&H receivers. Probably my favorites.. Now, with that being said, the bluing has been re-done for sure. Even the butt plate has been polished and re-blued on that 300. The stock on the 375 has had a cross bolt added, that is not factory. The brake on the 375 needs to be taken off. It is an eye sore and does nothing to help with a sale. The barrel on the 375 also appears to have been reblued. I won't pick them apart more than that, but since the 375 stock has been messed with, I'd also glass bed it to keep it from cracking out more. You know all about that, with your 338 Alaskan... I still stand by my belief that the rifles would probably bring $3,000 as a pair, maybe less or maybe more. The only way to tell is to list them on gunbroker and see what happens. I also believe they would sell easier individually and not as a package deal. Unless the price is smoking hot. Somewhere around sbrmike's price. I'm looking for a good 300H&H, but I would not buy this one, as it has had more refinishing than I like or typically see... Not bad rifles, though, for a guy looking to use them and abuse them.

I forgot that in my post, the receivers are worth a 1000 nowadays to someone that wants to build. I’d still say it’s a great pair of rifles for a fella that wants to hunt them. Nothing at all to chop the brake and recrown either.

Happy birthday buddy!! You turning the big 45 this year??

Both are fine rifles.

I feel your pain. At one time, I needed a stock for my 375H&H that was made about the same time as yours (1954). My smith had some great examples. One was pristine, but it had cracked and then had been professionally repaired and a cross bolt installed. That is the one I chose, as it resembled the original the most. When I later sold the rifle to Gunner, here, he wanted a low comb stock instead. I went to my smith and he had a stock, but it had the montecarlo and also had a cross bolt installed. No cracks that I could see though. That stock is very similar to the OP's stock with an aftermarket cross bolt installed. The price was more than I remembered:


The reason I am adding to what I have already said in the other posts is because it may be a benefit to the OP. I said his stock may not be worth as much as an all original, but may have misquoted the value because these are damn hard to find in nice condition. Let alone all original condition, you'll likely never find one of those. Because of this the 375 H&H stock is a valuable item, in almost any condition. I have not priced one at pre64.com, but I imagine they are expensive. Now, back to the rifle I sold to Gunner, I presented him with a nice Mcmillan stock that was fitted to the rifle, but he did not want it:



This is the stock, that my gunsmith had on hand for $475.00:


My smith buddy is very cool and let me take the stock home, so I could send gunner some pics of my barreled action in the stock.

That price tag was a bit high, so he found a low comb stock and sent it to me and I glass bedded it for him. I later sold my repaired stock on ebay for $425.00 and the buyer was very happy with it. So, buggers rifle has some valuable parts on it. The receiver with bolt and bottom metal at roughly $1,000.00, the stock for about $450.00, the rear sight sells for about $200. That is $1650 in parts and that doesn't include the barrel. The brake ruins the value on that barrel big time.. Also, looking at Buggers stock, It doesn't appear to have been "cut" and that looks like an original recoil pad to me, but I'd have to see the face of it to be sure...