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Any interest out there?

Been playing with loads for the 17 Fireball barrel I put on a Savage Axiss, that came with a 350 Legend barrel.
Am using the same 18 inch barrel length, and same contour that the 350 Legend had.

Been playing with it at 75 to 100 yds so far, but with the accuracy I've been getting out of it, with 20 grain V Maxes
at those distances, its definitely minute of Sage Rat, and some of these powders definitely have the potential for 200 yd killing machine efficiency.

Economy is the name of the game here, with the loads yielding 800 to 1250 rounds per pound of powder, and using small pistol primers.
Just settling on one load per powder, since powder capacity is small enough and the number of bullets available in this bore is on the small side,
no pun intended.

About 0.0 pounds of recoil. No loss of target site in reticle, after pulling the trigger. At late October and early November, not really a chance to heat up the barrel. Work this time of year, plays dividends in the varmint fields this coming spring.

don't know if the bullet is large enough for the chronograph to recognize something passing between its screens even.

another tool in the tool box to play with and explore. I am amazed somewhat of the case life. Have been using Remington Brass and then LC Brass that was reformed by a company out of Illinois that is out of business evidently. But so far 15 reloads per case on two batches, the brass is truckin right along. Not sure if this brass is that easy to over pressurize, due to its small size. With some powders, I've tested 5 grains per reload. definitely a substantial upgrade in velocity compared to a 17 HMR.

Haven't tried the 15.5 bullets I've picked up and/or the 25 gr HPs either, both types bought on big sale via Midway....like $90 for 1500 of the 25 grain HP Hornady ( bulk purchase, but don't seem like rejects, more like over runs) same with the 15.5 grainers...got those for like 1100 of them for $100.00 delivered.

just more fun in the off season, despite the weather.

so far have tested AA 452, Win 680, Unique, Blue Dot ( of course) Alliant Steel, IMR & H4227, Lil Gun...and a couple more...have used the 5.7 x 28 as a reference for some reloads also. and also the 221 Fireball in a Pistol. Even with regular load data, this little cartridge seems so eager to please.


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Great cartridge IMHO, though ill stick to book loads that are already very eficent. If I want slower or less powder burn we have the 17HH & the rimfire 17HMR & 17 HM2 to choose from.

Seems few cared for my perspective in that I really liked the 25 & 30 grain bullets in the 17 FB. IMR8208 had been a favorite propellant.


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Thanks John. As always, I appreciate you sharing your work with us. I'm following this thread and will be interested to see what velocities you are getting.


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I would like to see your results.

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Originally Posted by Hunterapp
Great cartridge IMHO, though ill stick to book loads that are already very eficent. If I want slower or less powder burn we have the 17HH & the rimfire 17HMR & 17 HM2 to choose from.

Seems few cared for my perspective in that I really liked the 25 & 30 grain bullets in the 17 FB. IMR8208 had been a favorite propellant.

thats what a Fireball is good for.. I can load it to equal a 17 Hornet, or an HMR or a HM2....

there is a host of other calibers out there, it can be loaded to equal.. or its easier to cross reference load data from a 221 Fireball or a 20 Vartag.


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Have you tried the Midway Dogtown 20gr bullets yet? I have and they were pretty bad. I gave a bunch to a buddy with a .17 Hornet to try but he moved away and I never heard if they worked or not.

My rifle, Rem 700, likes the Hornady 25gr HP’s.with 18gr of 8208. Makes tiny little groups. I don’t think I chronographed this load but have other loads. Velocity registers fine. Heck I’ve chrony’d my .177 air riles lots of times and it picks up the even smaller pellets just fine.

I have two 17 Mach 2’s with a good supply of Eley ammo for them. No need or desire to load the Fireball down to 2100 fps, that would take the fun right out of it! Besides, I have more of the Mach 2 ammo than small rifle primers so it wouldn’t be economical for me.

Probably my favorite centerfire to shoot, least favorite to reload for though!

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John, I found a bunch more brass I formed for the .17. I may hold onto it in case I decide to build a Sako vixen into a 17 Fireball. You get the loads all figured out in the meantime ok? LOL


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Originally Posted by 450BM
Have you tried the Midway Dogtown 20gr bullets yet? I have and they were pretty bad. I gave a bunch to a buddy with a .17 Hornet to try but he moved away and I never heard if they worked or not.

My rifle, Rem 700, likes the Hornady 25gr HP’s.with 18gr of 8208. Makes tiny little groups. I don’t think I chronographed this load but have other loads. Velocity registers fine. Heck I’ve chrony’d my .177 air riles lots of times and it picks up the even smaller pellets just fine.

I have two 17 Mach 2’s with a good supply of Eley ammo for them. No need or desire to load the Fireball down to 2100 fps, that would take the fun right out of it! Besides, I have more of the Mach 2 ammo than small rifle primers so it wouldn’t be economical for me.

Probably my favorite centerfire to shoot, least favorite to reload for though!

glad your chronograph picked them up.. I'll have to try on my old Shooting Chrony. I have a Lab Radar and they are NOT suppose to be able to pick up 17 caliber bullets or ammo.


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Originally Posted by Fireball2
John, I found a bunch more brass I formed for the .17. I may hold onto it in case I decide to build a Sako vixen into a 17 Fireball. You get the loads all figured out in the meantime ok? LOL

yeah been doing just that Roy... been using the 17 Fireball I got from you....LoL...

Been using all sorts of loads that I have worked up, for economy sage rat shooting...figured it is a good economic alternative, for squeakers under 150 yds or so...getting pretty tight groups from these load with shot gun powder.. been able to get minute of sage rat head at 100 yds...

Also have a batch of brass I have gotten 15 reloads on so far.. and am using Small Pistol primers who are working just fine.

These would really be fun and cool, with a CAN on the end of the barrel... with the noise of a BB gun....

also have done some 15.5 grain lead free bullets, Midway had on sale....if you want to run it up then are supposedly flying out the Muzzle at 4500 to 4700 fps. Can't wait to see if that is really going to create some RED MIST out there, when I go over to KFalls this spring.

Loads I am using, I am not losing any site picture when pulling the trigger. I'm having fun going over and putting holes in targets at the range.


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I have a buddy that has a couple 17's he has had for years, that turned me onto it. with 17 HMR ammo getting over $16 a box if you can find it. I can load 17 fireball for about $18 once I own the brass. the 17 fireball has become my favorite rifle. mine is a CZ 527 that I had rebarreled. adding a suppressor makes it into the most bad AZZ littler varmiters. YES its economical to shoot!!! I can load it with XTERM, benchmark or n133. I primarily only shoot 20 grain vmax's n133 runs them the fastest. XTERM the slowest but cheapest. mine is an 18" barrel because I always run it suppressed. my primary load is n133about 4100+ my brass has 10+ reloads on it primer pockets are as tight as new. I have lost some cases because my FL die was sizeing the brass 10-12 thou. this caused the tell tale case head separation sign on some cases. I used a redding comp shell holder now.

I use lapua 221 brass necked down.

this setup will explode a starling when it hits it. depending on how solid the hit is. it will blow chucks off, or just make a puff of feathers. its a very dramatic hit and everyone that has been with me to see the effects of this on varmints has their jaw drop. although I never planned on it. I have shot 7 coyotes with it, I don't recommend it with 20 grain vmaxs, but you can actually see the hydroshock of the hit through the scope as the bullet impacts the coyote.

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Seafire, I’m going to try Blue Dot with the 20gr dogtown bullets. Looking for accuracy just so I can shoot them and not feel like they are a waste sitting on my bench. I don’t care a lot about velocity, just want some use out of them. Where do you start with Blue Dot?

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I posted that info somewhere on the campfire...not that long ago... now I can't seem to locate it.. figures.

However I didn't do the big A to Z I usually do.... didn't chronograph them either...was testing them at 100 yds...

but from old data I worked up a decade or more, I had a point a reference... I loaded a batch of 10 rounds about 10 times....

worked with the 20 grain V Max. and loaded charges from 6.5 grains to 8.5 grains of Blue Dot, in half grain increments...

so I can attest, 6.5, 7, 7.5, 8 and 8.5 grains of Blue Dot were safe in two of my rifles....using CCI SP, SP Magnum, Rem 7 1/2 primers, Winchester Small Pistol & Small Rifle, Rem 6 1/2 primers, and CCI Small Rifle Primers.. all worked fine and gave real good accuracy.

Tested at 100 yds..... with the right elevation send some down range and was able to ring the steel gongs at 300 yds. ( but no much ring and even less movement, when hit by a 20 grain Bullet....

Hope that helps out.


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That’s awesome, thank you! I thought I remembered reading it too so I looked and couldn’t find it. Maybe I dreamed it, lol. I was pulling bullets out last night and I have some 15.5gr hp and some pull down 17gr ballistic tip boat tails I’ll try again. I’ve loaded these with 8208 with some guys on another board telling me they wouldn’t make it down the barrel in one piece. They did but shot 1.5 moa so I put them away for another day Both of these bullets might do well with a faster powder and going a little slower. I’m thinking around the 3000 fps range could be a good speed for them.

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. I’ve loaded these with 8208 with some guys on another board telling me they wouldn’t make it down the barrel in one piece.

The internet is full of guys who have zero experience with something, but being full of themselves, they think reading somewhere that someone else philosophized something wouldn't work, so that compels them to share their "opinion" like they are some source of authority on the subject.

When I started doing and sharing Blue Dot loads, I've had a zillion guys come on line and attack me with I was going to kill someone... they would end up with a squibb load, stick a bullet in the barrel, and then the next bullet was going to cause the bullet to blow up the action and the barrel.

So after reading the attack toward me, I'd ask them, had they ever tried Blue Dot to support their claims? Usual response was " Well NO".... but they were smart enough and knew better than to try it, much less than either work with it, before opening their mouth.

The smart ones who admit they don't know anything about it, are kind enough to keep their mouth shut, the dumb ones think they are an expert, and get up on their stump and start to lecture everyone else, like they are here to save the planet.

Kinda funny, the world is full of folks on the internet, that claim that someone else doesn't know crap, when the accuser is the actual one that doesn't know crap.

I've seen things on the campfire, where people will claim something wouldn't work, and I don't see why, so I do some research out there, get some parameters from other sources, and go out and try it, finding out it worked fine. Last one I recall that someone was claiming that H 380 will not work in a 270 Winchester, like they were an expert on that powder and that caliber. So I asked if they had ever tried it, and as always, they were smart enough to have NOT tried it...

So I just went and looked at burn rate charts, found a few powders listed for the 270, that were slower and then faster than H 380, that had load data for the 270. So I just extrapolated a charge in between the charges from the other two and tried it in the 270. Worked just fine with 3 different bullet weights. Posted that result and was immediately attacked by "MR H380 WON'T WORK IN A 270", Accusing me I was going to cost someone an eye, or even death, posting such nonsense.

Its MR H380 WONT WORK IN A 270, that needs to keep away from a reload bench and his pulpit. Internet is full of no experienced experts.


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Seems we're falling into the realm of false economics with trying to cut costs in the 17 fireball. I've one and for easy math, let's just say 15 grains per round of powder for some of the starting loads as a baseline. So that's about $0.09 for powder per round. Primers are $0.10 or so, and bullets are $.21 for Vmax bullets. So we're talking $0.40 per round here. You can get down to about 8 gr in a 17 hornet, so you save a whole four cents per round but at least you have a more efficient case volume to start with. With a 50% case fill using blue dot, you're going to get schitty ignition to save a few pennies a round, some 5% to 10% of the cost per round in the FB. I'm interested to see where this actually lands. I spend several hundreds of dollars by the time gas, vehicle wear & tear, meals, drinks, etc. is figured into a colony varmint hunting trip. If it's something like Rock Chucks, it's far less! Pretty sure $4-$8 bucks in the course of a trip will get lost in the rounding.

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Originally Posted by Ben_Lurkin
With a 50% case fill using blue dot, you're going to get schitty ignition to save a few pennies a round
You should have started here, and then ended with, "I don't know what the fuuck I'm talking about."

Would have saved having to read your whe post.


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Ben do you realize your post is you telling people how to spend their money? Where you asked to?

I really see your post as fatherly and just trying to point out economics to someone, which I see as nothing but submitted with good intentions.

I worked up Blue Dot for use in my Fireball, just because I like to know the parameters of a round, from high to low and back.

I was asked about it by someone, so I shared it. No one is trying to push the use of Blue Dot. I share it with others, telling what I find with it..
Give them the choice, and let them know what I find with it.

100 yards or under, I find it highly capable, and probably is good to 200 yds, with a little Kentucky windage...

but at times of Powder Shortages, getting 800 to 900 rounds out of a pound of powder is nothing to sneeze at , if you do a lot of high volume shooting.

its availability vs cost per shot....

where you talk about the economy of the 17 Hornet vs the 17 Fireball, well using Blue Dot in the Fireball, suddenly the cost per shot, becomes a wash, and the velocity is going to be closer even to the same.

Just another perspective if we are talking academically here....


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Originally Posted by Seafire
Ben do you realize your post is you telling people how to spend their money? Where you asked to?

I really see your post as fatherly and just trying to point out economics to someone, which I see as nothing but submitted with good intentions.

I worked up Blue Dot for use in my Fireball, just because I like to know the parameters of a round, from high to low and back.

I was asked about it by someone, so I shared it. No one is trying to push the use of Blue Dot. I share it with others, telling what I find with it..
Give them the choice, and let them know what I find with it.

100 yards or under, I find it highly capable, and probably is good to 200 yds, with a little Kentucky windage...

but at times of Powder Shortages, getting 800 to 900 rounds out of a pound of powder is nothing to sneeze at , if you do a lot of high volume shooting.

its availability vs cost per shot....

where you talk about the economy of the 17 Hornet vs the 17 Fireball, well using Blue Dot in the Fireball, suddenly the cost per shot, becomes a wash, and the velocity is going to be closer even to the same.

Just another perspective if we are talking academically here....

No offense intended, if it is worth someone’s time then so be it. I can see if it’s a wash between the FB and Hornet and you don’t have a Hornet, then it could be worthwhile. 🍻

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Thanks Ben...

Wish the campfire ran this smoothly, more often....Good conversation....

Cheers
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I don’t do the high volume shooting Seafire does, I’m just trying to come up with a powder these light weight bullets like. Maybe I won’t find it but i’ll have fun trying. It’s all part of the enjoyment of reloading and shooting.

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