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That`s correct, because the bullet is just beginning to expand as it exits a standing jug. Lay the jug on it`s side and shoot the base to see the effect. The bullet does as advertized, IME, penetrate 3-5 inches, and then expand.
Shooting a Yote through the shoulders, 4-6 inches wide may not give full expansion, but shot head on at 365 yrds, a 140grn VLD Hunting bullet will darn near take the back end off, just my experience. ( 7x57, 2850 fps.)

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Originally Posted by wyoming260
John in your experience , how does the Ar hydrid compare to the Regular 130 gr VLD hunting bullet? I have no complaints with the VLD but the Ar hydrid seems to be more available and it is good to have options.....

AR hybrid works very well for killin in the 6.5mm 130gr.

I use both depending on availability.

Last edited by JohnBurns; 12/04/22.

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Originally Posted by pete53
. i am not impressed with Berger hunting bullets on game animals.
You are not alone.
Several years ago.
Running a 7mm Mashburn.
Worked up a load with the 168g Berger hunting bullet.
Very accurate.
Decent sized freezer doe 250 yards.
Normal sized entrance.
Off side was a horror show.
Right out of a John Carpenter horror movie.
Disgusting.
Just like the descriptions I've read.
Bullet entered probably went an inch or two and then
Exploded.
Biggest exit hole ,if that's what you'd call it, I've ever seen.
Yes I know an example of one.
One was enough .

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I started using them in milder rounds about 12 years ago. I sought out cartridges that would push the 140 6.5 vld at 2600-2950 fps. I've had great luck and due to the high bc I have long range velocity retention that insures expansion.

Anxious to use the 6/45 I just built to shoot 95 grain vld bullets at about 2550 fps. Going to test that one for expansion soon hopefully to see how it does. If I shot stuff that was going over 3000 fps I'd try other bullets probably.

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Originally Posted by 30338
I started using them in milder rounds about 12 years ago. I sought out cartridges that would push the 140 6.5 vld at 2600-2950 fps. I've had great luck and due to the high bc I have long range velocity retention that insures expansion.

Anxious to use the 6/45 I just built to shoot 95 grain vld bullets at about 2550 fps. Going to test that one for expansion soon hopefully to see how it does. If I shot stuff that was going over 3000 fps I'd try other bullets probably.

That's a gem of a rifle. I was wondering how you were making out with it 30338.


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Originally Posted by atse
Originally Posted by MallardAddict
Pin drill in the hollow point to make sure they aren’t clogged and I’ve never had a Berger pencil on me.
That is very likely what happened on my one pencil through. Took a shell out of my pocket, and that hole may have been filled with lint. That and it went between ribs coming, and going...
If I recall correctly, the Bergers don't expand by having their HP open up like a typical HP but by having the hollow nose collapse and the integrity of the bullets comes apart at that point. This explains the 3" of penetration before they grenade.

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with a little respect , bullet going into a body 3 inches on a small young deer or small deer down south is different than 3 inches on an old harden whitetail Northern buck or a big old northern mule deer buck that dress 175 to over 200 lbs.. i have shot in the jell type blocks at Federal Cartridge it is the same as a moving animal with bones either. in a small deer with a rifle that shoots under 3,000 FPS i believe that`s fine then .


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Originally Posted by pete53
with a little respect , bullet going into a body 3 inches on a small young deer or small deer down south is different than 3 inches on an old harden whitetail Northern buck or a big old northern mule deer buck that dress 175 to over 200 lbs.. i have shot in the jell type blocks at Federal Cartridge it is the same as a moving animal with bones either. in a small deer with a rifle that shoots under 3,000 FPS i believe that`s fine then .
No one cares what you believe, and tens of thousands of animals bigger than small deer have been killed with Bergers. End of story.


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Originally Posted by BCSteve
Originally Posted by atse
Originally Posted by MallardAddict
Pin drill in the hollow point to make sure they aren’t clogged and I’ve never had a Berger pencil on me.
That is very likely what happened on my one pencil through. Took a shell out of my pocket, and that hole may have been filled with lint. That and it went between ribs coming, and going...
If I recall correctly, the Bergers don't expand by having their HP open up like a typical HP but by having the hollow nose collapse and the integrity of the bullets comes apart at that point. This explains the 3" of penetration before they grenade.
That is correct. But if the tip was plugged,would that keep the bullet from imploding? I am not sure, but think it might, at least on a small critter like a coyote. As mentioned above the bullet that failed to expand, went between the ribs entering and exiting. Pinholes on both sides. Could have just been an anomaly too. Shoot enough critters, and you will see some weird things.

Last edited by atse; 12/08/22.
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atse,

Have seen 140-grain 6.5 Bergers instantly kill prairie dogs at 500-800 yards--though the entrance hole was still a pin-hole, the exit wasn't. This was from a 6.5-06 at 3000 fps.

Have also seen "conventional" hollow-point boattails such as 85-grain Sierra GameKings fail to expand on PDs at 400-500 yards when started from a .243 Winchester at 3200+ fps. It didn't happen every time, but often enough.

Based on such experience, my bet is on the front end of Bergers collapsing over the "hollow point" of more conventional bullets mushrooming.


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I think in a 6.5x284, 6.5-06, 280 rem, ect., under 400 yards or so they will hammer at those velocities, heck maybe even 500, but when you ramp up the powder and case volume those bergers do weird stuff inside 200. Just like I was talking about in another thread. My experience shows they don't open if you don't hit bone. But that's just one person. Now in say a 7 rum you run the 180, I'll bet you money, marbles, and chalk that bullet blows throw a deer at 150 to 200 yards and you'll be tracking. Run a 140 in it and you'll have bang flops. But, there will be some damage. It's all about finding the sweet spot. Some bullets work for some people better than others. But as far as damage goes, there is only one classification of dead.

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Originally Posted by Mule Deer
atse,

Have seen 140-grain 6.5 Bergers instantly kill prairie dogs at 500-800 yards--though the entrance hole was still a pin-hole, the exit wasn't. This was from a 6.5-06 at 3000 fps.

Have also seen "conventional" hollow-point boattails such as 85-grain Sierra GameKings fail to expand on PDs at 400-500 yards when started from a .243 Winchester at 3200+ fps. It didn't happen every time, but often enough.

Based on such experience, my bet is on the front end of Bergers collapsing over the "hollow point" of more conventional bullets mushrooming.
Ya,they have been great bullets. Killed lots, and lots of coyotes with em, wolves, antelope, and several big bucks. I really like them.

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Originally Posted by HuntnShoot
Originally Posted by pete53
with a little respect , bullet going into a body 3 inches on a small young deer or small deer down south is different than 3 inches on an old harden whitetail Northern buck or a big old northern mule deer buck that dress 175 to over 200 lbs.. i have shot in the jell type blocks at Federal Cartridge it is the same as a moving animal with bones either. in a small deer with a rifle that shoots under 3,000 FPS i believe that`s fine then .
No one cares what you believe, and tens of thousands of animals bigger than small deer have been killed with Bergers. End of story.


CARE ? OH WE CARE, its a decent bullet as long as you shoot under 3000 fps , believe ? no i see what a mess this bullet does in a powerful rifle with some speed and recoil . i assume you shoot a smaller cartridge with lighter recoil and or under 3,000 FPS. this bullet will not work in my rifle i seen the results what a mess, but go ahead and use it on game .that`s the real truth end of this story.


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Originally Posted by CGPAUL
That`s correct, because the bullet is just beginning to expand as it exits a standing jug. Lay the jug on it`s side and shoot the base to see the effect. The bullet does as advertized, IME, penetrate 3-5 inches, and then expand.
Shooting a Yote through the shoulders, 4-6 inches wide may not give full expansion, but shot head on at 365 yrds, a 140grn VLD Hunting bullet will darn near take the back end off, just my experience. ( 7x57, 2850 fps.)

I’ve saw this same thing multiple times on broadside coyotes but quartered at or away wow it will about cut them in half. .284 168 gr. VLD hunting bullets.

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I personally have had very good performance with them. So far, all animals killed with 7mm bullets. 140 to 180 grn. Have not had oppertunities with 25 or 30 cal bullets, so far.

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Originally Posted by Coyote10
Now in say a 7 rum you run the 180, I'll bet you money, marbles, and chalk that bullet blows throw a deer at 150 to 200 yards and you'll be tracking.

How much money?

Not interested in marble or chaulk.


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Originally Posted by Coyote10
I think in a 6.5x284, 6.5-06, 280 rem, ect., under 400 yards or so they will hammer at those velocities, heck maybe even 500, but when you ramp up the powder and case volume those bergers do weird stuff inside 200. Just like I was talking about in another thread. My experience shows they don't open if you don't hit bone. But that's just one person. Now in say a 7 rum you run the 180, I'll bet you money, marbles, and chalk that bullet blows throw a deer at 150 to 200 yards and you'll be tracking. Run a 140 in it and you'll have bang flops. But, there will be some damage. It's all about finding the sweet spot. Some bullets work for some people better than others. But as far as damage goes, there is only one classification of dead.

If you put a 180 Berger from a 7RUM into a deer at 150-200 I’d be willing to bet no tracking needed especially if shooting shoulder.

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I’ve personally used the Bergers in 6mm 95vld and 105 hybrids, 6.5 140 hybrids, 270 150VLd, 7mm 168VLD,180 hybrid,195EOL and 30cal 230hybrids and all but 2 animals I’ve shot was DRT. One deer went maybe 5-10 yards stumbling backwards and a cow elk went about 15-20 yards sidehilling downward.

I do pin drill all of them now but have only taken 2 animals with them and same results. DRT.

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Berger bullets seem to have it's share of "haters". In my mind it's usually a matter of not understanding the limitations they have. I use a 7 SAUM for a lot of my hunting. I'm using a 180 VLDH bullet at 2900 fps. I ALWAYS check the points for clogged tips. Some boxes have had as many as 10% clogged. Either drill those out or use them as practice rounds. Last 3 trips to Africa that rifle has taken well over 30 head of plains game including 3 eland. 1 shot kills on all except 1 eland bull. That was a huge Livingston eland at 75 yds shot on the shoulder. I think he was close to going down when I hit him again. He was significantly bigger than my cape buffalo!
Lately I've been using a 6.5 SS with a 156 gr Berger at 3000 fps. First 8 shots at big game animals resulted in 8 dead animals. Thats pronghorn and deer. Part of the secret to Bergers is to use heavy for caliber bullets. The 156 in the .26. 180 in the .28. 215 or bigger in the .30's Ideally keep the speed under 3000 fps. If you run a 180 gr one in a .30 Nosler at 3200 fps, well splatter at close ranges is likely. A lack of penetration and a lost animal. Are they perfect? No they are not. If we use them as designed then the results will be very satisfactory. One trip to Africa I had 2 different PH's ask what bullet I was using. They were impressed.
Another PH in Tanzania expressed a distrust of Bergers. After a 20 min discussion with me he made the comment that he wouldn't have a problem guiding me while using them.
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Good post!


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