Home Forums Hunting & Shooting Long Range Hunting Hornady podcast- group size

Hornady is putting out some good stuff these days

Took me all day to listen to it, but it was good.

Some good nuggets of info, but excruciating overall..

The “confirmation bias funnel” = Audette’s ladder test…..?

How many ladders does a guy need to run to know the data is statistically relevant and repeatable?

30.

I have not listened to that podcast yet but will agree with the general rule of 30 samples, like Jordan posted above. It is a good starting point for various studies. In fact it is somewhat of a default sample size for certain analysis software and fields. More is better, but for some industries it becomes too cost or time prohibitive to do more.

I tend to use 40. Simply due to the fact that two boxes of 20 rounds equals 40, regarding ES for example. And more samples doesn't hurt.

The main thing I took away besides the 20-30 round group sample size is how little other things mattered to getting a sub MOA rifle. They loaded .025-.030 off the lands, and made powder changes in 1 grain increments. If they couldn't find accuracy within a few powder types, they would change the barrel. As well as the cost of chasing your tail if your first sample group wasn't large enough before testing at ranges.

I found that interesting, as well. They test several powders with a bullet of choice, if nothing seems promising switch bullets. If still no love, swap barrels. Also interesting to do initial testing with 10-round groups, and retest the promising combos with 20-round groups before finalizing the load decision.

Hornady has abandoned some good bullets. I’m hugely disappointed in their new products.

Yes indeedee, very interesting, thanks.
I will now start using composites of seven to ten of the three-shot groups.
That way I will have my cake and eat it too.
Still get those 3-shot groups to admire,
and the 21-30 shot composites to know what is really going on most likely,
statistically speaking, of course.

I long ago gave up on the notion of chasing the perfect group according to other folks and other rifles. I find hunting accuracy in the rifle with the bullet I want to hunt with and focus on doing my part better, that being breaking the shot from field positions.

I am glad that folks like the ones in the video do this work for us to learn from as we make choices at home but my main criteria for accuracy is a repeatable and reliable rifle for nice round groups over time.

I have several of those today and thus I am happy.
Best regards,
F01

I thought it was put together well to make their points in an understandable format. I got a few ideas from it.

There has been a follow up video (Hornady), and a good interview from Erik cortina on YouTube that are worth listening to IMO.

Another one just released, discussion with Bryan litz.



I’m glad the subject is getting some attention.

Come on man!


You can't tell me all the guys on the internet don't have sub half moa rifles! They said so! They posted a 3 shot group to prove it!




Most shooters never shoot enough to learn any better.

I shoot with some guys that one week they shoot well...the next you'd think they had an entirely different rifle and/or load. They don't know how to properly clean their bore...they don't do anything consistent at the reloading bench. They don't know how to tune a load and actually find the right load.


Lots of guys will pick the wrong load every time simply because it printed the tightest group.

My rifle shots 1/4 moa every time, 60% of the time, when I do my part

We going to get into this again? Thought it was covered pretty well

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/18022970/1

I have a lot more confidence in my zero after adopting what they talked about. I don't see a downside to what they're professing.

The BIG missing link in that discussion is getting shooters to admit their own true capabilities.

How many people could watch a BR/F-Class/PRC shooter shoot say 10 1/2MOA groups in a row then sit down behind the same rifle and replicate it themselves?

Pursing tiny groups can be fun… or frustrating.
For a hunting rifle if it will do 1.5 MOA, good enough. And some I hunt with are closer to 2 MOA, but rarely does it take more than one shot anyway.