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I was just curious at your reasoning but your excuse says it all.

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Originally Posted by TWR
I was just curious at your reasoning but your excuse says it all.

Y' lost me. What is it you perceive as an excuse?

The REASON is that I prefer the 6 ounce triggers on my 700s to the near 5 pound trigger on the AR. I'd go with 700s year around but when the temps drop to 5-10 degrees, the balance of what is safe or not (in my hands) changes. I never consider safety and "excuse."

So far as the other things? I'm open to input. If you know of a cheek piece compatible with the magpul collapsible stock, let me know and I'll check into it. I don't see any way to get around the very awkward location of the AR safety. I suppose that is a good reason to have a heavy trigger .. release the safety early instead of waiting 'til it is time to fire the shot? Or am I missing something in what you're doing?


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Tom, I can tell you what your missing--Talent When It comes to Fire Arms. Rio7

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You could’ve just said you prefer a bolt gun over an AR and I wouldn’t have thought a thing about it.

But when you said a bolt gun was easier to operate than an AR I was curious but then you said you couldn’t find the safety on an AR that’s right under your thumb, because you were used to a cross bolt safety from shotgun use and dumped the mag instead, well it’s either an excuse or you lack the skills needed to be operating a firearm.

Sorry I hurt your feelers.

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Originally Posted by T_O_M
I don't see any way to get around the very awkward location of the AR safety. I suppose that is a good reason to have a heavy trigger .. release the safety early instead of waiting 'til it is time to fire the shot? Or am I missing something in what you're doing?

This can't be serious.

The AR's safety is so well located that there is some debate if it should even be engaged during a bolt lock reload.


Last edited by JohnBurns; 12/30/22. Reason: Fixed Quote

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Originally Posted by T_O_M
Originally Posted by TWR
I was just curious at your reasoning but your excuse says it all.

Y' lost me. What is it you perceive as an excuse?

The REASON is that I prefer the 6 ounce triggers on my 700s to the near 5 pound trigger on the AR. I'd go with 700s year around but when the temps drop to 5-10 degrees, the balance of what is safe or not (in my hands) changes. I never consider safety and "excuse."

So far as the other things? I'm open to input. If you know of a cheek piece compatible with the magpul collapsible stock, let me know and I'll check into it. I don't see any way to get around the very awkward location of the AR safety. I suppose that is a good reason to have a heavy trigger .. release the safety early instead of waiting 'til it is time to fire the shot? Or am I missing something in what you're doing?
I’m quoting this properly so no one gets confused and thinks I said this about the safety.

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Originally Posted by TWR
I’m quoting this properly so no one gets confused and thinks I said this about the safety.

Fixed it in my post.

Sorry.


John Burns

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Originally Posted by JohnBurns
Originally Posted by T_O_M
I don't see any way to get around the very awkward location of the AR safety. I suppose that is a good reason to have a heavy trigger .. release the safety early instead of waiting 'til it is time to fire the shot? Or am I missing something in what you're doing?

This can't be serious.

The AR's safety is so well located that there is some debate if it should even be engaged during a bolt lock reload.


I took a defense carbine class with an instructor by the name of Jabo Long , who's also Memphis TN SWAT team lead. He literally had us putting the safety on in between TGTs and movement. It was part of the presentation he had us working form the low ready. It became 2nd nature by the 2 day and took zero extra time.

His rationale was, IF something happened in the middle of an engagement he wanted to ensure that the weapons were on safe. It makes sense, and again the safety is so well positioned in doesn't add any time. The was my 5th carbine class and I really enjoyed it and learned a lot. I wrote an AAR on the class here:

Jabo Long Class AAR

As for yotes, I use both. For calling in closer surroundings I put together my calling AR, 16" barrel, 1-6X scope because sometime we have multiple dogs come running in. The lighter weight is also a plus when we're hiking between stands. IF the terrain his more open I'll use one of my bolt guns with more magnification.


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Thank you John.

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I’ve always used a bolt gun but am seriously considering getting an AR set up with night sights for night hunting.


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Bolt rifle. 243 win and 75 vmaxes or a 25-06 and 90 grain blitzings. Also I want a two stage trigger. I don't squall at them. I'm a howler. I hunt a 15 mile radius and those suckers get smart if i squeal all the time. Lots hang up at 2-300, but they usually show up to see just what's going on. Also i want to see at least 400 yards in 3 direcrions and get on top of whatever the tallest hill there is around. Killed a 100 one winter/spring. I can't see an AR ever making a difference. Caliber don't matter either I guess, but I want powder capacity and speed. Wind and longer shots come into play the way I call. Coyote will never outrun a bullet. Get whatever you like and get to calling.

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Use both. Have more confidence with a bolt. The AR cost me a coyote last year when due to not allowing allowing the bolt the slam home. I rode the bolt down with the charging handle and didn't use the forward assist. Lesson learned.

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Originally Posted by devnull
Use both. Have more confidence with a bolt. The AR cost me a coyote last year when due to not allowing allowing the bolt the slam home. I rode the bolt down with the charging handle and didn't use the forward assist. Lesson learned.

Doesn't seem like a gun problem, more so operator error.


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Originally Posted by MOGC
Originally Posted by devnull
Use both. Have more confidence with a bolt. The AR cost me a coyote last year when due to not allowing allowing the bolt the slam home. I rode the bolt down with the charging handle and didn't use the forward assist. Lesson learned.

Doesn't seem like a gun problem, more so operator error.

Yep, you're right. Go back and read my second sentence.

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I prefer a bolt because I have used bolt actions all of my life and have never found them to be a disadavantage. As I posted earlier I just do not find the operation of the AR's as familiar and have to think about the operation on them whereas the bolt action operation is so ingrained into me that it is almost an unconcious action.

I carry my rifle in the pickup with the butt up, muzzle floor against the floor. I carry with a round in the chamber and the bolt handle unengaged (at the catch where the bolt handle has to forced past in order to engage), when I see a coyote as soon as the muzzle is out the window my thumb pushes the bolt engaged and I am ready to shoot.
Even when still hunting I use the same bolt unengaged method, it is as quick as pushing off a safety.

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When I was a 14 or 15 I bought a Winchester 9422M with hay hauling money and killed an ark full of critters. That was my favorite rifle for several years. I learned to call about this time and that was my coyote rifle.

Later on I wound up with a mini 14 because I needed more power than a 22 mag. Killed a lot of coyotes with it. Then came bolt guns and wildcat chambering’s and then I gave up on the mini 14 and got into AR’s. Killed a lot of coyotes with them too. I also tried pistols, revolvers and even single shots. Even got my bird guns involved in the fun. The handguns were my favorites but in my hands they were far from the best choice.

When I go coyote hunting, it’s more about what mood I’m in than what I can run better. Sure there are certain situations that certain guns are better suited but I’ve done my best to learn what those situations call for and how to use each gun to my advantage.

My dad’s got my 9422M now and has had it for 20 years and even though he doesn’t use it much, he’ll have it till the end. After that, you can bet I won’t have to decide between bolt guns or AR’s.

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I use a 22-250 bolt gun most of the time. I prefer the bolt gun over the AR because I kill coyotes on the way to and from calling. I don’t like brass bouncing of the windshield and then falling into the vents. I do have a couple of AR’s and occasionally they see some love.

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I've killed coyotes with both, but much prefer the bolt guns. I was getting sets with multiples coming to the call a few years ago so I got a Rock River Coyote rifle to help speed up the shooting. I'll be 70 in a couple weeks and after a few years playing with it the AR still feels awkward and heavy compared to my sporter bolt guns. For some reason I've never had a pair of coyotes show up when using the AR.

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I like bolts ok my main coyote rifles being Sako Vixen in 221 Fireball and Krico 223. But, found a need for more speed while maintaining a sight picture, or at least not completely dropping the gun to cycle the action. I tried AR's and just can't like them. Guys are definitely effective with them, but I found them ugly and an ergonomic nightmare. I hate carrying them, shooting them, and looking at them. In other words, I find no pleasure in them, no matter how effective they might be.

Started trying leverguns like a Browning 65 in 218 Bee, a Marlin in a 219 Zipper and another in 256 mag, and Remington pumps in 25-20. Then I began a lifelong love affair with Savage lever guns. Ended up with several customs including 22-250 and .17-22/250. Also have a 22 Mag semi-auto that's an awesome desert walking gun.

As important as anything I found quiet to be as important as anything. 17 Hornet is wonderful for that, and doesn't blow out the whole county like a 22-250 going off does.


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I like both for coyote hunting, my favorite AR has an LAR grizzly side charge upper, it is quieter to load than a rear charge and you can put the forward assist in the trash where it belongs.
For a bolt action I love my CZ527 chambered in 222.
If I have another hunter with me in thick cover I will even get out my combo gun 223/12ga once in a while

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