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Tuners #17971084 01/03/23
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 38,890 Flyover Country Teal OP Campfire 'Bwana
OP Teal Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 38,890 Flyover Country	I know barrel tuners are a thing for 22lr. They seem to be really popular in BR. Question - can they make marginal ammo exceptional or are they simply there to make VERY VERY good ammo exceptional. That is to say - how far can they swing the needle when it comes to group size? Enough that a person doesn't need to worry about starting all over with a new lot number? Do they offer enough that "go buy 5k rounds of XXX and just tune it" and be good? Probably not for BR but I'm thinking of getting more involved in 22PRS, NRL22 here this summer. Me

GB1

Re: Tuners Teal #17971136 01/03/23
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,321 Paradise,Alaska Big Stick Campfire Kahuna
Big Stick Campfire Kahuna Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,321 Paradise,Alaska	A Tuner CAN'T "change" headspace,ES/SD,throat geometry or "magically" make schit ammo "awesome". Hint. If only as per always,back up to The Start Of The Fhuqking Start and cite rifle,mounting system and glass particulars,if only as THE opening move. Hint. Particulars matter,more than a "smidge". Hint............. Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

Re: Tuners Teal #17971205 01/03/23
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 38,890 Flyover Country Teal OP Campfire 'Bwana
OP Teal Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 38,890 Flyover Country	Rifle will be a Bergara B14R Scope - Arken Gen 2 FFP, SH4 or EP5 - haven't decided. 30 moa base and 32 Mil in the erector. Ammo - likely Lapua or SK - depending on what it likes. Rifle is shipping this week so I don't know just yet as I've not shot it. I believe it leaves the distributor today. 1. Don't want to spend the money for a Vudoo immediately - I get it, should have gotten that but I doubt I'll outshoot this B14R to start with and I scored the B14 for 500 clams, new. It's local stuff, not national level so I'm okay with my choice for now. At worse, Vudoo later and B14R as loaner/back up/fun. 2. I'm reading more and see people saying "find a lot that works and buy a pile of it" - well 99.99% of my RF ammo is coming on the FedEx truck, no one carries local above the Thunderbolt quality it seems, not consistently. So finding a lot and then laying in a pile probably isn't as easy as it might be in other areas. My thought process was - if the tuner makes sense - finding ammo it likes and use to the tuner to account for lot/lot variability due to variance in my ability to score the same lots of say Lapua Center-X. I can always order more Center-X, I just can't guarantee it will be the same lot. Tuner to adjust for that - given I believe Lapua to be consistent enough that Lot 1 isn't going to be WILDLY different than Lot 4 - as an example, just randomly selecting Lapua abd Center X as a brand - not set on that specifically. Me

Re: Tuners Teal #17971405 01/03/23
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,349 Virginia, Scott County. N Nessmuk Campfire Tracker
Nessmuk Campfire Tracker N Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 6,349 Virginia, Scott County.	Seriously, if needed, try a rubber grommet on the barrel. Move it up and down until it shoots it's best. I've read good things about that. I am the NorthEast WoodsBeast! "System version 1.3, divorced"

Re: Tuners Teal #17971744 01/03/23
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,321 Paradise,Alaska Big Stick Campfire Kahuna
Big Stick Campfire Kahuna Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,321 Paradise,Alaska	I have a dozen or so '16x SH4's,don't care for the '24x version of same,my EP5 just shipped and I have (2) 30mm LW '16's on order. Mil/Mil across the board,if only obviously. The 4-16x 34mm tube has 36 Mil's,the 30mm version 25. The EP5 has 32 and 6-24 has 32 Mil's. Pass the 34mm 4-16x. A 30 MOA rail,won't even begin to coax it all,as you'll need to be in the 60MOA realm on the 4-16x,to get the goody. 'Horn Rings for The Win there,though I VERY much like and trust Arken rings. Hint. 1) Your early Vudoo regrets are very WELL founded. Hint.(grin) 2) Welcome to my World. Starting with ammo of repute,only hedges a bet and if you have a bunch of something the same,you start on solid ground. The Lapooey Test Center,being a work around. Hint. Lots certainly matter,no matter the flavor of the box. A Tuner will never hurt you and akin to your Vudoo regrets,simply START with a Tuner and never look back,or you will drive yourself nuts. Hint. I have a few,from the usual suspects,but am thinking I like Erik's best. My preference would be Version 1 S/S Tapered and his thread adapters are Skookum. You can thread all needles,in one stop. Hint. My Vudoos and Anschutzeseses aren't Tuner "Friendly",due my preferences. That being shorter/more rigid barrels,offer less to "Tune". I tune at 100yds in the best conditions I can hit. Hint. Nothing is more fhuqking fun,than Long Range Rimfire. Hint.................. Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

IC B2

Re: Tuners Teal #17971925 01/03/23
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 38,890 Flyover Country Teal OP Campfire 'Bwana
OP Teal Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 38,890 Flyover Country	Appreciate the info. I'll look up the tuner and see what/what. I was thinking EP5 because I guess the glass is supposed to be better but good to know. Mil/Mil same here. I'll also look for more MOA on the rail. My math was off, I was assuming 30 on rail; plus scope should get it close to the 600 yard mark, but it's been forever since I played JBM whatifs and was likely off. Rimfire LR sure looks like a pile of fun and getting the Bergara for 500 has me dipping my toes. I also justified my Vudoo decision with "the chassis (should I go that way), scope, trigger, bags, bipod will all fit the Vudoo later" - should I get the bug real bad. I expect I will. Already started looking at a 3 lug, MTU contour - barreled action from them... if just for a "wish list" Me

Re: Tuners Teal #17972143 01/03/23
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,321 Paradise,Alaska Big Stick Campfire Kahuna
Big Stick Campfire Kahuna Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,321 Paradise,Alaska	My EP5 hasn't arrived and I've got 100's of scopes and as Reality goes,the "view" is that which means the least. The '16's are sensational and it doesn't even make fhuqking sense. The reticle is exceptional,tracking and zero repeats are on the money. A mechanical zero stop doesn't suck,nor doess illumination and it has the most erector travel of all their offerings. EASY "choice" there,when musing the ilk. Hint.(grin) With Center-X in this morning's atmosphere,it behaves thusly to the 600yd line. Hint. Remember everything on the erector below your zero range,is 100% fhuqking USELESS. For Long Range,the SWFA 10x MQ is sensational,with 40+ Mil's on the erector,in total travel. Due their greater latitude,I like to drive a 75 MOA rail and "flat" rings there. Nice to have 50 Mil's of opportunity,when weighing available erector and the reticle stacked in unison. I'm double digits in platforms,that will reach 700yds+ mechanically. Hint. 25MOA rail,for comparison. Hint. I'm not a Chassis Guy,but that is muchly subjective. My Vudoos are McMillan,AG Composites or GB stocked. Hint. Barrel contour doesn't correlate to "accuracy" or "precision",but added mass tends to be easier to shoot and more forgiving of bad habits. My McMillan Old Glory Bart' MTU pictured above,goes 18.5lbs. A poor choice for Utility,but a PEACH for Giggles. Hint. Vudoo CRF and zero projectile deformation,is fhuqking MAGNIFICENT and nothing else begins to touch them. 18" Bart' Specter contour here. Hint. Hell...you're hooked already and haven't even fired a round! Hint.(grin)................... Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

Re: Tuners Teal #17972181 01/03/23
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,344 Poetry, Texas B butchlambert1 Campfire Outfitter
butchlambert1 Campfire Outfitter B Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,344 Poetry, Texas	If you want intelligent answers to your questions go to a good rimfire forum. https://www.rimfireaccuracy.com/Forum/index.php http://www.targettalk.org/index.php https://www.rimfirecentral.com/forums/ A tuner will make all ammo somewhat better, but it sure won't make it great.

Re: Tuners Teal #17972209 01/03/23
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,321 Paradise,Alaska Big Stick Campfire Kahuna
Big Stick Campfire Kahuna Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,321 Paradise,Alaska	Bitchlambert, Your only "move" is to simply shut the fhuqk up,take notes and apply same...before you yet again embarrass yourself,by trying to "talk" rifles in the first hand...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!? Bless your heart for trying though. Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!............. Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

Re: Tuners Big Stick #17972857 01/03/23
Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,344 Poetry, Texas B butchlambert1 Campfire Outfitter
butchlambert1 Campfire Outfitter B Joined: Dec 2004 Posts: 10,344 Poetry, Texas	Originally Posted by Big Stick Bitchlambert, Your only "move" is to simply shut the fhuqk up,take notes and apply same...before you yet again embarrass yourself,by trying to "talk" rifles in the first hand...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!? Bless your heart for trying though. Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!............. Read my post again, you could learn something.

IC B3

Re: Tuners Teal #17972986 01/03/23
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 38,890 Flyover Country Teal OP Campfire 'Bwana
OP Teal Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 38,890 Flyover Country	Natch, I ask and Litz posts this today on Facebook. Originally Posted by Litz on FB One of several tuner testing results published in Modern Advancements in Long Range Shooting - Vol 3 Link There are many claims about tuners effect on precision based on anecdotes and small sample size. By contrast, this study uses statistically significant sample sizes and as a result, has a better chance of being "less wrong" than tests compromised of less data. Detailed test parameters are covered in the book, but the basics are: Same ammo/load used for the whole test Fired 5 groups of 5 shots (5x5 aggregate) as a baseline, before installing the tuner Install tuner and sweep entire range of settings/revolutions multiple times (course) Select the revolution which appeared to produce best precision Sweep settings within a single revolution (fine) multiple times per mfg instructions. One thing to note at this point is that the best and worst settings were different each sweep. This alone demonstrates that the test for best setting is not repeatable but you would never know it if you don't repeat the test Then, 5 groups of 5 shots were fired at each of the settings indicated as best and worst in the fine sweeps. Finally, the tuner was removed and a 5x5 agg was fired again in the baseline configuration Results: the precision, as characterized by a 5x5 agg, is statistically no different at any of the tuner settings or the before and after baselines. Analysis: in this case, the tuner did not affect precision (same result for the other tests which included: A 6 Dasher PRS rifle, 22 rimfire, and another test on a different FTR gun/shooter) There's a podcast that covers this as well on www.thescienceofaccuracy.com Academy. Follow me for more statistically significant test results⚡⚡⚡ #appliedballistics #thescienceofaccuracy Me

Re: Tuners Teal #17973010 01/03/23
Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 32,130 Somewhere between lost and fou... kingston Campfire 'Bwana
kingston Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Jan 2010 Posts: 32,130 Somewhere between lost and fou...	This could hurt Erik Cortina's tuner sales. Originally Posted by 16penny If you put Taco Bell sauce in your ramen noodles it tastes just like poverty

Re: Tuners Teal #17973258 01/03/23
Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,321 Paradise,Alaska Big Stick Campfire Kahuna
Big Stick Campfire Kahuna Joined: Jan 2001 Posts: 58,321 Paradise,Alaska	This blueprint would likely be a "better" and more "fair" platform,for Tunertitude. Hint. I know I have a coupla Time Precisions too,but it's tough to catch Tuning Weather this time of year. Hint. Though seldom can I resist. Hint. Fhuqking LAUGHING!............... Brad says: "Can't fault Rick for his pity letting you back on the fire... but pity it was and remains. Nothing more, nothing less. A sad little man in a sad little dream."

Re: Tuners Teal #18014107 01/15/23
Joined: Jan 2023 Posts: 58 Around the corner frm ur mom's... T Tommy_guns Campfire Greenhorn
Tommy_guns Campfire Greenhorn T Joined: Jan 2023 Posts: 58 Around the corner frm ur mom's...	Response to the OPs original question, No, a tuner will.not make.marginal ammo shoot acceptably better... There are.tko many variables and inconsistencies in cheap ammo. I have learned if u want to play, u have to pay Hammer down!

Re: Tuners Teal #18018343 01/16/23
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 38,890 Flyover Country Teal OP Campfire 'Bwana
OP Teal Campfire 'Bwana Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 38,890 Flyover Country	I haven't ordered a tuner. As an update I guess. Lapua Center-X is impossible to find but I did find some Eley Target and Eley Tenex - we'll see how they shoot in the Bergara, once I get the scope mounted etc. Me

Re: Tuners Teal #18018454 01/16/23
Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,913 B Bearcat74 Campfire Tracker
Bearcat74 Campfire Tracker B Joined: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,913	In our match Saturday Center-X took 1st and 2nd with Lapua Pistol King taking 3rd. The guys there were talking about how Center-X is impossible to get right now and they may switch to Pistol King if they run out. When I die I hope I don't start voting democrat.

Re: Tuners Teal #18080406 01/30/23
Joined: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,109 Blue Ridge Mtn’s, VA B Bodkin84 Campfire Regular
Bodkin84 Campfire Regular B Joined: Aug 2012 Posts: 1,109 Blue Ridge Mtn’s, VA	Before considering a tuner shoot your rifle with several different flavors and lots of ammo, pick the best ammo that shot best in your gun, look at results then if you want buy a tuner and try it. I have rimfire rifles with tuners and some without. I have a custom Annie with a benchmark barrel that shoots way better without a tuner at all. Another custom that shoots great with a tuner.

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